It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Many Christians I talk to say Islam supports dicta

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:24 PM
link   
Many Christians I talk to say Islam supports dictatorships because most nations where Muslims are the majority are dictatorships why are thesese nations dictatorships ? Is it because of the global elite the new world order one world government that wants to rule the entire world ? Or because Islam is Radical and there are no Moderate Muslims ?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...)




posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:28 PM
link   
It is my understanding that the Muslims that kill infidels (giving them a "choice" to convert) are the ones that are actually fulfilling the religious doctrine.

I do think that the religious elite do want a dictatorship and will strive towards that end after they win any government.
edit on 12-12-2011 by calnorak because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:29 PM
link   
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


Many Christians you talk to are idiots. How about that for an explanation.

Let's stop dealing out the hate for once.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:30 PM
link   
I believe Muslim majority nations being dictatorships have nothing to do with Islam. If that was the case what would we say about Christian majority nations and the mass murder they all seem to have a connection with.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by mikejohnson2006
Many Christians I talk to say Islam supports dictatorships because most nations where Muslims are the majority are dictatorships why are thesese nations dictatorships ? Is it because of the global elite the new world order one world government that wants to rule the entire world ? Or because Islam is Radical and there are no Moderate Muslims ?

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...)


This is not true, Islam is no more violent or radical than Christianity, it's the fanatics that pitch their own doctrine of violence in both religions. Islam does not support dictatorship, Muslim countries are under dictatorship because the one's that rose to power in those countries are dictators, not because Islam is a dictatorship religion.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:38 PM
link   
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


Any religion which relies on strict adherence to dogma inevitably results in dictatorship. In that sense both Christianity and Islam are alike when their holy books are followed word for word.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 02:54 PM
link   
I was brought up christian...

Its not like Catholics are part of some world democracy, about 30 men decided which of there buddies would be the guy in charge untill he dies...

surely thats a dictatorship right there??

Yes the christians you have spoke to are indeed idiots, who have an issue with muslims and blame them for many many world wrongs



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:10 PM
link   
reply to post by TheOneElectric
 


Perhaps you would care to point out where the OP was 'dealing out the hate'? The observation, for that is what it was, was reasonable as was the following question.

Let's stop dealing out the clichés shall we?



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:23 PM
link   
Ok having been to many Muslim countries , studied the Koran yada yada yada........
Most muslim countries are dictatorships simply because it takes a firm hand to control the populace sorry but it's a fact anyone that says the Koran preaches peace has never read it - it's a book so open to interpretation that its teachings are easily manipulated to suit the reader - many especially in the poorer communities and countries many cannot read and their exposure to the Koran is from imams who captivate its audience of glorious victories over the infidel of jihad and the spread of Islam - and of corse all of the non Muslims are infidels by some strange reasoning - so by that reasoning the Koran says we are all fair game - infact it's their holy duty to spread Islam - but also teaches heavily about honour to the point that if some one damages your honour your duty bound to react and a jihad is in your arsenal of legitamate weapons so arguments with your neighbour can go all the way to a jihad war - literally !
I mean look at what is allowed as punishment on women - and for what offences !
It is an inherently aggressive religion as is Christianity and all religions for that matter
But just read the Koran and see for yourself
What tops it is most religions have evolved with the times - Islam hasn't really
Now I am not a fear monger nor would I say I'm racist - nor am I saying this applies to all Muslims I know and have many Muslim friends in many countries
A Muslim friend once told me the problem with Islam is that many Muslims lack the education to actually read it and make their own decisions

This is why they have dictators - this is why they need dictators



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:41 PM
link   
In that case the muslims can say Christianity supports facism. It's allmost the same your system and dictatorship. It's the blody stupid pyramid of power and ego all around the world. The western control is just smoother with physiological threat while dictatorship is more truthful that you are a slave. Sometimes I would rather have the chinese as my master since at least they won't lie that you have rights that won't be taken away from you like the western goverments. But at least in the west I am a houseslave and won't have to work in the fields. So I probably should just shut up and say yes Master.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:53 PM
link   
reply to post by apushforenlightment
 


Couldn't agree more
But you were being a bit gentle when you said facism


Assumption is the mother of all f*#k ups



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Neocrusader
Ok having been to many Muslim countries , studied the Koran yada yada yada........
Most muslim countries are dictatorships simply because it takes a firm hand to control the populace sorry but it's a fact anyone that says the Koran preaches peace has never read it - it's a book so open to interpretation that its teachings are easily manipulated to suit the reader - many especially in the poorer communities and countries many cannot read and their exposure to the Koran is from imams who captivate its audience of glorious victories over the infidel of jihad and the spread of Islam - and of corse all of the non Muslims are infidels by some strange reasoning - so by that reasoning the Koran says we are all fair game - infact it's their holy duty to spread Islam - but also teaches heavily about honour to the point that if some one damages your honour your duty bound to react and a jihad is in your arsenal of legitamate weapons so arguments with your neighbour can go all the way to a jihad war - literally !
I mean look at what is allowed as punishment on women - and for what offences !
It is an inherently aggressive religion as is Christianity and all religions for that matter
But just read the Koran and see for yourself
What tops it is most religions have evolved with the times - Islam hasn't really
Now I am not a fear monger nor would I say I'm racist - nor am I saying this applies to all Muslims I know and have many Muslim friends in many countries
A Muslim friend once told me the problem with Islam is that many Muslims lack the education to actually read it and make their own decisions

This is why they have dictators - this is why they need dictators



I agree with you as far as the Koran is "more severe and less open to debate," at least in most predominant Muslim nation's, then perhaps Judaism and Christianity. That said (and I have also read the Koran, although in English) and have been told by one guy I've known for 25years, and he's both fluent in Arabic being born in Jordan, and from age 4 started to learn English from a British tutor. Educated at home, when old enough he attended Sandhurst (forgive misspelling) , the premier UK military academy. He was very specific that both Arabic, hence the Koran, does loose some, perhaps important, perhaps not, in the translation. At least he thinks it does in some areas. And he knows a lot more on both the subject of Arabic and the Koran. After all I can't think of any language that translates "100% cleanly" from one to another. Not an excuse, just an observation. And you also have to take cultural artifacts into play as well. (Check out common translation apps on the net and you'll see what I mean) Anyway...

But there is one MAJOR fact that I have never heard mentioned when it comes to the "civility, issue of civil right's, equality, etc" about Islam. The Koran is 600 years YOUNGER then it's nearest "rival" Christianity, let alone Judaism. Think what people were doing in the name of Jesus Christ in "Christian Europe" 600 years ago. A horror show, a living nightmare. My simple point is Islam is just not as mature a belief system as the other two. That in itself does not make it "worse," but has a much less developed history when it comes to "time in grade," the time it takes any belief system and those who follow it to become more "sure" of its self, at least where debate and dissent is not automatically viewed as an attack or insult. Asking A QUESTION about God/god, whatever 600 years ago in Europe could just by itself been enough to get you killed, or worse end up before "the holy inquisition".

Often the Catholic church, and yes in some cases the Protestant's didn't tolerate questions either, so it's not just a "Catholic thing", but they did develop torture to a "fine art" (barf), (monotheism has a tendency to be more of an absolutist concept anyway, in so much as "one true god" kind of just narrows the options, but that's another discussion) But just as with medieval Catholic authorities who if they thought it was "OK" to even think today what they did then, would be locked up as sadistic sociopaths. Today Islam is complicated by among many issues, dictatorships who will use any excuse to be "grand pubarr" for life. Power hungry "protectors of the faith" (can you say "ego trip"?) who are afraid of people having a brain will realize that Inman is full of s***, and is also something that crosses all religions. The so called "Christian" world has the same kind who encourage the led-by-the-nose crowd to murder people involved w/abortion, or blow up buildings in the name of "the people" Same bull s***.

But today given the socio-political structure of many Muslim nations, where tribal or clan identity trumps national borders that makes change in any society compared to others almost glacial. I hope the extreme Islam, will "mature out" sooner rather then later. For Muslims and everyone else.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 06:05 PM
link   
reply to post by arbiture
 


Extremely insightful
And yes it's something many do not consider
As well as the relative isolation to western influences in some areas
But then it could be said America is a young country by that reasoning it should be a a nation driven by childish desires .......ok bad example
Regrettably though as you will know it is stated in the Koran that the word of the Koran cannot be changed alas it may well be slower to (I hate to use this word) modernise
However I donor want this to sound like a Koran / Islam bashing
Islam is also a very noble and honourable religion
The 5 pillars of islam teach this



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:00 PM
link   
While I don't support Islam any more than Christianity, I'd say it's stupid to garner information about it from a different religion that severely opposes it.

That's like asking a super racist white man what black people are like.

~
Ask Muslims, Ex-Muslims, and other people well versed in what Islam is about.

Though, I'll personally say, it's not the religion. If those people were christian, it'd be the same brutish behavior, just backed up by Old Testament verses instead of Quran ones. They are in a poor undeveloped society, and it makes monsters out of many of them. Christianty(In modern times, was just as bad in the past) is far more popular in the developed countries, so it's been made moderate and socially acceptable. If Islam had Christianity's place in the world, it'd be the same.

Though again, I don't support Islamic believes. But, I'm definitely against hating people for their beliefs. And misunderstandings are one of the fundamental roots of hatred. I don't have hard feelings towards any Muslim for their faith, unless they make it an issue(Same rule I apply to christians), and I'd really recommend anyone else(even christians) try to maintain that attitude as well.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by lifeissacred

Any religion which relies on strict adherence to dogma inevitably results in dictatorship. In that sense both Christianity and Islam are alike when their holy books are followed word for word.


This

We have winner folks.

Technically such a form of government is called a Theocracy.

However, in reality there isn't that much to differentiate it in practice from a dictatorship.

In a Theocracy a leader (or group of leaders) say, "You will do this because God said so."
In a Dictatorship (aka Despotism) a leader or group of leaders say, "You will do this because I said so."

Theocracy being like a dictatorship isn't limited to Islam. It basically boils down to religious rule - or rather how whoever is in charge interprets the religion.

Most often it stems from some nutcase saying, "Put me in charge and I'll run things the way God wants!!" ..and people often being morons actually do it.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 11:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by arbiture
 


Extremely insightful
And yes it's something many do not consider
As well as the relative isolation to western influences in some areas
But then it could be said America is a young country by that reasoning it should be a a nation driven by childish desires .......ok bad example
Regrettably though as you will know it is stated in the Koran that the word of the Koran cannot be changed alas it may well be slower to (I hate to use this word) modernise
However I donor want this to sound like a Koran / Islam bashing
Islam is also a very noble and honourable religion
The 5 pillars of islam teach this


I do agree that a religion can be noble, but that is in the eye and heart of those who embrace it, or seek to embrace wisdom and justice/compassion. No doubt Islam has so much to offer but perhaps the nature of any religion is not to reveal God, but to allow the Other to reveal ourselves and each other. It in the end is up, as always w/free will ourselves. Given the culture so often attributed to Islamic influence that of the Arabic and near east, the culture of that region was more advanced in math and medicine when Europe was in it's dark ages. After Rome fell though it's influence has in it's own way "spanned the world", it took almost 800-900 years for the west to rediscover what they had, to wake up, and take it to the next level.

And Islamic culture produced it's own unique contributions in so many areas, art, poetry, architecture, engineering, and unique insights into medicine and art, as mentioned. Not to mention an alphabet and number system that has conquered the world. How marvelous to "conquer" with insight and efficiency then any other way. Religion or non-religious ideas need not be aggressive, as that is resisted, and never in the end will win, not in the long term. But as in Christian and Buddhist teachings that which endures is the same gentle message. And THAT is true power, but quiet, and harming none, enlightening all who CHOOSE to be open to it.




top topics



 
1

log in

join