Why Would Aliens Not Be Violent?

Originally posted by Erno86
I believe that any space alien race that visits our planet Earth, should have the capability to defend themselves; if needbe. Therefore.... I think that the other-worlder's, that visit our planet, should have the capability of provoking extreme violence on a world-wide scale.

Sure they could provoke extreme violence, but we already do a pretty good job of blowing ourselves up, I don't think they would need to. Having the ability to do something isn't the same as doing it. I mean, 'defense' has been one of the greatest driving factors for offensive action in the modern century, however I would imagine this would be in a pacifying capacity should the need ever arise from us being violent towards them. Sure their power sources for weapons would increase as their power sources for propulsion would be intertwined most likely. However to assume they are here to blow us up would be to ascribe emotions that most humans don't even feel, like the urge to conquer. Most humans desire to feel secure, but few base security off complete domination of the opponent.

In fact to me, what they don't do speaks a lot to their motives. If they are here and they have the crazy advanced technology we hear about, the fact they are being passive and non threatening is important to recognize.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by JunoJive

 

The problem is the technological differential.

They may need to keep us around for study, or they may click a button and have everything they want to know.

I hope for the former

.

I would imagine, there is little we could teach them either technologically, or morally, and thats why if they are here, they haven't made official contact. There is no reason for them to. I doubt they are here to blow us up, or take over, and I doubt they are evil. I imagine that they are content to let us continue existing, so long as we don't pose a threat to whatever plans they do have. Again, those plans aren't necessarily nefarious, simply because we can't understand them. Perhaps their ultimate goal is simply to learn enough about us, to allow for a cultural exchange, or maybe to learn more about their own history. As the advanced species between the two, its up to them to use their knowledge to bridge the problems in communication and culture, that we would be unprepared for.

I don't think they look at us like cockroaches, more like kids, who have the potential to understand, but just aren't there yet.

Cheers.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by StarPeace

 

why would any hypothetical aliens be hostile ?

its all in relation to human/animal activities that we see on a daily basis.

the laws in nature seem to swirl around the concept of predators and prey.

if we take it to the next level, we would see that in space, and advanced races, there are also predators and prey.

so there will be some races that venture into space purely to find resources.

the same way a pack of humans would venture into the bush to find food.

reply to post by yourmaker


True about the predator prey thing, however I don't think that would carry into space. If these races have the technology to cross those distances, its either extremely efficient requiring little to no resources, these resources are easily manufactured in house, or they travel with all the resources they need. I say this because, in space you can't be sure you can find anything to eat. At least wandering the forest or bush you stumble across things to nibble on. But the distance between points wouldn't allow for scavenging to be effective for sustainability. If they are scavenging chances are its do to being stranded. Otherwise, the technology is so reliable and sustainable, that they can afford the trips here just to observe.

So space piracy doesn't seem that likely, even our piracy would be limited to the solar system, since outside of that, theres nothing to leech. Besides, what are they gonna take? Carbon, Hydrogen, Ice, Ores? All these things are available in undefended massive quantities, near the edge of the sun's gravity, about a light year from the sun, where remnants of solar formation float around free for the taking. Oort Cloud

If they are here, chances are its because we are unique compared to them or something, but they aren't here for resources, that I can almost guarantee. They might need to stock up a bit if they come through, but they won't be enslaving and strip mining the planet any time soon.

Originally posted by JunoJive
reply to post by yourmaker

 

True about the predator prey thing, however I don't think that would carry into space. If these races have the technology to cross those distances, its either extremely efficient requiring little to no resources, these resources are easily manufactured in house, or they travel with all the resources they need. I say this because, in space you can't be sure you can find anything to eat. At least wandering the forest or bush you stumble across things to nibble on. But the distance between points wouldn't allow for scavenging to be effective for sustainability. If they are scavenging chances are its do to being stranded. Otherwise, the technology is so reliable and sustainable, that they can afford the trips here just to observe.

So space piracy doesn't seem that likely, even our piracy would be limited to the solar system, since outside of that, theres nothing to leech.

I think we have fantasy visions of space travel due to star trek and star wars.
of course there will be a great divide in the way many of the races approach the subject of space travel.
different environments will cause different methods.
but they will all be based around the idea that what we need is not here.
resource scavenging would be a necessity in space travel as they would most likely be a nomadic species.
travelling colonies that may be peaceful with one another, but have learned not to be peaceful with any other species due to resource management.

the same reason a group of wasps would never be seen working with honeybees.

the two may be closer related to each other than ants, but it won't change the fact they are surviving because of the resources, one of them will have to die for the other to survive, part of the predator-prey dynamic.

but there is a lot of space out there, so it's not like they wouldn't be able to find what they need elsewhere.

"in space you can't be sure you can find anything to eat."
this is where my fantasy vision comes in play tho, I can't imagine it would be too hard for an advanced race to create a supercomputer with a program that utilizes hi-tek mapping/imaging software that scopes out prime locales in the galaxy with suitable conditions to simply grow their own resources.

Originally posted by JunoJive
reply to post by StarPeace

 

Fundamentally, I think it comes down to what it would take to be a space traveling civilization. Much the same way some believe reptiles couldn't evolve to a society based culture, since they don't raise their live young and therefore lack certain empathetic qualities, we can say that in most probability, a civilization that didn't wipe itself out would have the cooperative spirit that would allow it to take to space and survive. A war based race, would most likely destroy itself before it could pose a threat to another sentient species, unless they shared a solar system perhaps. Even still, our experiences of conquering only relate to ourselves. Humans conquering humans, to ascribe our temperament and ruthlessness to an alien race might be premature. Not to mention, would we have conquered so ruthlessly if it were not for the Kings, Queens, and Empires of old demanding new land and resources. Fundamentally as long as basic needs are met, people tend to default to fairly pleasant individuals.

Its just loose reasoning, but the gap between stars is a bit bigger than an ocean separating continents. Them stumbling across us and wanting our resources is a huge leap, considering the most valuable of our resources are available in massive quantities floating out in space. There aren't a lot of reasons for them to be violent. If they wanted the planet, and were looking to expand their empire they wouldn't wait for us to develop the nuke or other weapons that may have some detrimental impact on their plans. They can get resources faster and easier in the vacuum of space, so for me, besides resources and real estate, curiosity is the only logical driving factor.

Just my two cents tho.

edit on 12-12-2011 by JunoJive because: Spelling

I know it's a few pages back, but I just had to say bravo, my friend. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I just hope that we as a race can actually get along enough to make it into space, and travel the stars.

Originally posted by StarPeace
When countries invade other countries there is a bit of manipulation of the local population before the war begins.
In my opinion there is no reason to believe the aliens are not any different.

There is EVERY reason to believe that aliens would be COMPLETELY different. Carl Sagan had the right idea, he stated that intelligent alien life is highly likely to be so completely different from us that we will be unlikely to recognize it when we see it. They may take the form of floating bags of gas, or electrical impulses. It's silly for us to wonder if they're war-like or not, because that's ascribing OUR characteristics to something totally and completely alien. I mean look at the crazy variety of life right here on earth- everything from ants to dinosaurs have lived here. We don't even understand much of life here on earth, how do we think we could understand alien life? Aliens would probably be very perplexed at our propensity to fight each other, THAT is probably something completely alien to THEM.

The more advanced are more likely to know that existence inside of spacetime as a finite only serves the purpose of the OPPORTUNITY to install inside the structures of spacetime, attached to ones consciousness, the escape Door into evermore newness and expansion of consciousness. Gain, power while in spacetime, stays in spacetime and you cannot take it with you nor does it promote obtaining the Presence of the (escape) Door. It is the ONLY thing of any value and it's not anything anyone can see, touch, describe, give to any other finite.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I would hope that with thousands, hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of years of advancement, another race would have gotten beyond our problem of killing each other.

I would think that to be a succesfull race of star travelling folk that you'd be relatively peacefull. Just seems to make sense. Seems to me that races that were more interested in war and imperialistic occupation of the stars would die out rather quickly.

~Keeper

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

The most logical conclusion would be that violent civilizations would not survive their own technology if they don't reject killing/war and conquest.

They have no need for your silly emotion of hate!

These are galaxy traversing super beings we're talking about.

not selfish, greedy, Whiny humans.

Once again i'll say this. I think that for any civilization to travel the stars they'd need to be spiritually evolved. Therefore they'd most likely be kind.

But of course, are all humans nice? mean? hateful?

There are good and bad within every race and species. Unless you're filled with light and joy

I don't however think we need to worry about being invaded by nasty aliens..I believe there are far more "good" ET's out there, and that if some negative ET's invaded Earth it'd break some galactic law and the good ET's would come to our aid.This is all theory of course.

gooday.

lets see how someone can take my comment and react to it with hate.. like every single Freaking day here on ATS.

reply to post by SavedOne


Great reply, i 100% agree with everything you stated and have tried to convey these thinkings to people on ATS before. However i've come up short.

People don't seem to understand that our ways of thinking, and the things we do, or think, are relative to our planet.

What i'm trying to say is, we don't know *SNIP*. And it's foolish to think we do, especially considering how this knew "faster than light" particle (which has been tested and repeated multiple times) could make the whole of physics fall out from the bottom. Meaning that...we don't know *SNIP !!

just hypothetically what do you think will happen if we start sending nukes to random space coordinates? do you think aliens will regard us as the annoying and whinny kid and just ignore us while silently disabling the nukes or do you think they will get angry and just explode earth? or maybe they will finally show up and say "stop it!"
there are already accounts of UFOs disabling missiles in WWII

I used to think that aliens if they had the tech to get them here would have probably have evolved into peaceful beings, and be much much older then us. But lately I've been thinking what if they are no further along than us as in age, and their leaders are war hungry manipulators like ours.

Say they had a world war like our ww2, but instead one side wins and wipes out or unites the rest of the world under one banner. Then instead of fighting stupid wasteful wars they band together, and develop their space program, and other crucial sciences that permit them to travel faster than light. Us on the other hand have had some nice achievements, but the world seems more concerned with ipods and huge tv's as a whole.

The other civilization runs out of resources on their home planet yada,yada, and they want our planet...

“In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.”

Sun Tzu

None of us can fathom what an alien thoughts or wants could be since we are all human, there may be peaceful races and also militant ones so we must prepare for the worst and be pleasantly suprised to meet a peaceful race.

As posted and discussed somewhat earlier, I also think that what it comes down to is exactly what it takes to become a space faring civilization.

I can see why some ET civilizations would be peaceful, but also, why some may have violent tendencies.

A race able to travel the cosmos would have started somewhere, just like our own race. Bacteria and single cell life evolving into greater things. As such, those races more than likely would have gone through many of the same struggles we have, and are currently going through. They would probably have developed emotion and structure just as we have. Gone through their own wars over their own differences, just as we have, and still are. For a race to survive long enough to develop the technology necessary to travel the cosmos they would have had to find ways to cooperate and get along.

I could see a race that is only two hundred years more advanced than ours still having many of the issues we have. Many traits would still be apparent. They would probably still possess emotion, which would lead to indifference and perhaps even hate and malice. Also, because they are only around 200 years more advanced, they may not have the best technology conceivable for space travel, but plenty sufficient to go from solar system to solar system. They may not have the technology to manufacture the necessary resources they need to continue their journey through the cosmos, and if they did come across our world, may need to resupply. Chances are they would be technologically advanced enough to still wipe the floor with us if necessary. They could very well try to reason with us and cooperate as well, since they are not that much older than us. They could also be so similar to us that they say "we've been travelling long enough, and need a place to settle down." and either merge with our society (doubtful, from looking at our society) or destroy us (most likely). They would be the race that would be susceptible to desperation.

A race of ET's that is a THOUSAND years more advanced, or a MILLION years more advanced, on the other hand, may have evolved beyond being controlled by their emotions and may see things vastly different than how we do, or a race 200 years more advanced than us do. These are the ones I could see being mostly peaceful, if they wished to interact at all. Their technology would be so far advanced that they very well may have what is needed to manufacture the materials they need without having to interfere with other species, whereas a species only 200 years more advanced may still need to.

Just my thoughts.

-Cheers

I havent seen any comments about their spirituality? I do not mean religion. Religion is the story of spirituality. So say they are EDs they exist on higher vibrations because they are "good". They find a squabbling island full of twelve year olds with aticks and stones, killing each other, who have lost their spirituality and morality. Why wouldnt they help?
For example. I used to be pretty ruthless and negative, very hard headed. I joined the military solely to kill people. Then i had a very mediocre revelation. But i live by one little thought that keeps me in line when nobody is watching. For arguements sake, we have spirit guides, guardian angels whatever you want to say. They are with you always, watching you. They are santa and wil know if you have been naughty or nice.

So back to the EDs. They are more spiritualy advanced than us. They wont hurt us because they "know" they are being watched. As for the Greys doing horrible things to people. If you wish to compare them to human history. You could say some EDs are Buddhists and some are Nazi doctors. Or something like that. My point is they have been helping us through out history. Why show up now? When our morals are almost non existent? They see we need help. We have lost our way.

reply to post by StarPeace


Because violence is stupid and they are smarter than us? I would ask if they are likely to be aggressive and on that count I would say chances are all of 50-50.

reply to post by quietlearner


Chances are, nukes wouldn't have much of an impact given the size of space, and the objects within it. Nukes on a planet can have a vastly more immediate danger, especially towards the inhabitants. Perhaps they only disable the nukes when they passed through, to prevent us inevitably blowing ourselves up, in an attempt to get at them.

reply to post by Necrobile


Thanks very much, I think we'll make it. There are enough people out there to steer us in favorable directions I think, some of the kids today blow my mind with their capacities for empathy and compassion.