Facing Ophiuchus-

reply to post by metalshredmetal


Wow Metal....great contribution there. I'm ordering the book now.

I love ATS and where it takes me...threads that lead to new things, and new knowledge to be learned.

Thank you.

I have a program called Homeplanet. It's an astronomy program, it's free. You can use it to see Ophiuchus position in the sky. Here's a link.

www.fourmilab.ch...

Wow! So glad others are enjoying this! As another said, its more to do with a harmony/alignment with the spheres and centers of galaxies, and light. We are all energy. Everything has its own unique print amongst what is.

Ill never forget my mother telling me of some of the things she saw in her NDE but the one that sticks out to me the most is the lines of energy she saw all around everything, how it all connects to the whole of everything, and the yellow dust that floated around everywhere, falling into these lines of energy. When one unique print amongst the whole shows awareness to another unique print that is also apart of the whole, the IAM if you will...something happens. We are not here to just go with the flow...we are here to create the flow. We are already creators of it, and just do not know it. We create and experience creating, all at the same time. No one created constellation of our past is more important then another, just offers different facets of possibilities. No one constellation is only meant for certain people, for there is a whole that far surpasses, the self. But...the path of self, is the start and must be done, to see. No wrongs or rights, it all just is.

What Ophiuchus has to offer, can be different to many people.

Ophiuchus is actually two signs in one. Serpens is the snake that Ophiuchus holds and is its own constellation. Someone may have a planet in Serpens at their birth and have nothing in Ophiuchus. I look at Ophiuchus and Sagittarius both as protectors of what is sacred. A knowing, that they guard, the direction to the center.

Ophiuchus stands over Scorpio and Scorpio and Orion are never in the same sky together. Once Scorpio sets in the west, Orion will rise in the East. Scorpio, Ophiuchus, and Sagittarius are all close to this direction of the galactic center. As you may notice Orion rising in the Eastern sky after the sun sets, you can take notice to the anti galactic center which sits over the top of Orion, in between Gemini and Taurus. This has been known as the gate of man.

Originally posted by Julie Washington
Leo,

I'm not getting the www.heavensabove.com site to work.

Can you provide a link?

Thanks,

Try this one

www.heavens-above.com...

check out the astronomy section, lots of good stuff.

Originally posted by Agarta
My only issue is the use of the word "New" in regards to the return of Ophiuchus. This sign was an original that was removed and now that it is being put back in its considered new? Here is a mathematical example of it.

The cycle of progression is 26,000 years. Each sign is 2000 years. 12X2000=24,000. Returning the 13th sign means 13X2000=26,000 which is the correct cycle length.

It is my understanding that Ophiuchus, as the healer, represents science(His symbols are still used today in the medical field), and when science and mysticism were separated, Ophiuchus was removed.

His return has caused confusion in modern astrology due to his removal being so long ago.

Right, its really not new at all...but it is new to the consciousness, of some. Instead of us asking why we left it out, we should be wondering, why now does it come about.

Something that we ignore is that all the signs do not hold the same amount of space along the elliptic> for example< the sun is only in Scorpio for about a week and the sun actually spends more time in Ophiuchus then Scorpio< spending about 18-19 days in Ophiuchus> such things does make it debatable how we should be dividing the sky and cycles> either way though< the cycle comes out to still be about 26,000 years.

Here is a image or wheel I use which may explain the differences of how we have divided the wheel in the past. I follow the outside wheel, astronomical wheel...but use the other two as references to understand the sidereal and astrological wheel.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2e798f48811.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by selfharmonise
Hi

Interested in the other forgotten signs also.

Can you outline?

Well I believe what happened was about 2000 years ago the wheel was fixed, making it a unchanging wheel. People wanted to make it simple and thought it would master the art of the stars. When in my opinion, this created a blunder. But the funny thing about all of this is I believe everything is meant to be as it is, so there was a reason we simplified it and now there is a reason we are coming to learn of it.

The Sun travels through 13 signs, literally, in astronomy. The planets and the moon drift a bit off of the elliptic path and sometimes enter into signs we dont hear about like Cetus, Bootes, Coma Berenices, Sextans, and there is a cusp of Orion that all the spheres travel along at some point. The Sun travels the cusp of Orion for 3 days out of every year but I dont call it the 14th sign since it is only along the cusp. Though I do make note of it in any birth wheel I look at if there is a sphere on this cusp of Orion. I guess you could say I use a total of about 18 signs if I look at a birth date.

The above wheel shows the astronomical wheel. Then I make a outside wheel that has the few signs included for the ones that drift out of that wheel. A great program is stellarium, you can download it and see right where all the spheres were at any given day and time.

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
Sometimes stars are just stars

It is what it is....but what is cool is we are made, of the stars. Without the destruction of stars, we would not have the birth of life.

Originally posted by Warpthal
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Ophiuchus has been a long debated topic. It lasts for a very short time period, to December 17th which you stated. Ophiuchus bears the snakes, symbolic to Scorpio. In ancient Egypt, they portraied the Scorpio as a snake, then later on as an eagle. The Egyptians thought the Eagle best suited the Scorpio, because Eagles ate snakes and it symbolized rebirth (directly related to the Phoenix). The world uses the eagle in replacement as the phoenix as we can tell.

The Sun travels Ophiuchus for about 18 days and compared to Scorpio this is a pretty long time for the Sun is only in Scorpio for about a week. But besides that, there is something to say about the changing of the Phoenix to the Scorpio. The showing of going from a animal that takes flight to one that crawls on the ground. I am a fan of the 'bird' more so then the Scorpio but it all has its place, somehow. Thanks for the additions to the thread !

Here is another pic some may find of worth...

Hope its not too big!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/97b7c439a7a0.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo


Here is a image or wheel I use which may explain the differences of how we have divided the wheel in the past. I follow the outside wheel, astronomical wheel...but use the other two as references to understand the sidereal and astrological wheel.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2e798f48811.gif[/atsimg]

edit on 13-12-2011 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

this graphic is awesome, it should become the zodiac wheel/natal chart wheel for all astrologers. where did you find it? I need to catch up on my "astronomically correct astrology". where would you suggest i find information as to the accurate numbers of degrees of each constellation, for example? Thanks for shedding your light on the subject, too

reply to post by metalshredmetal


I do not pretend to understand the ins and outs of Astrology, as it was only a passing interest many years ago, however I think maybe my answer and your answer are based on 2 different cycles. If this is not the case please help me to understand. Below is a pictorial explanation I threw together for this post(forgive me for it being so basic and simple as well as it not including Ophiuchus. It is simply to show the difference of our statements as I am perceiving them to be).

This(top section) is what I believe you are talking about. This is the yearly cycle of the Earths(and other planets) cycle through the zodiac. It shows the signs to be equal but like I said it is a basic representation.
This(bottom) is what I am referring to. It is the grand progression of the Sun through the zodiac in the form of ages, again shown in a basic form.

As far as I understand there were only 13 signs within this scale. The Sun traveling around the universe is in a zodiacal age for approximately 2000 years each making the cycle(grand progression) 26,000 years.

reply to post by Agarta


you were not incorrect in your previous post, you didn't say anything that isn't the norm in western astrology.
It just turns out that western astrology isn't very accurate.

for the most accurate form of the zodiac you can refer to LeoVirgo's post above. That wheel shows how the western zodiac (innermost wheel) relates in comparison to the most accurate measurement of where the constellations are, in the outermost wheel.

Also, you must remember that none of these constellations or other stars are fixed. Earth is not going to see the same stars in it's sky forever. We orbit the sun, but the sun is moving. in reality, our zillions of orbits around the sun can really be liked to a corkscrew shape or a spire, we never occupy the same space as we have in the past.

therefore, as we are constantly changing our position in space, (over billions of years) we will see a whole new sky. think about what our constellations might look like when our solar system is on the opposite side of the milky way as it is now...

When you really understand this you will realize many things about all of Earth's mythologies that are based on the stars. The stars are just stars. the constellations really are just abstract dot shapes that us humans anthropomorphize into concepts that are relatable.

it's built into human life to look towards the stars for answers. the earth is our mother and the sky is our father.

EDIT: I want to clarify my opinion here...when i said that "stars are just stars", it could give the impression that astrology isn't important, or real.

It is real, and I will reiterate my previous post when i say: astrology is really the idea that all light effects our consciousness. So the light that is generated by all the constellations and all the stars out there really DO effect us in metaphysically and scientifically measurable ways. The mayans had a VERY detailed system of how star light had it's own "emotional" influence on people's thoughts and day to day happenings. Astrology is sort of a "humanization" of star light. star light has an emotional charge.

scientifically this is provable in the study of light wave frequencies. there are different qualities of light that these stars give off, and EACH AND EVERY star has a UNIQUE light wave signature. this is found in the exact frequency the light has in respect to the electromagnetic spectrum, and the distance the star is away from the earth.

It's becoming pretty mainstream in science that light and sound have analogous emotional qualities and mental qualities like love or hate.

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
reply to post by Agarta

 

you were not incorrect in your previous post, you didn't say anything that isn't the norm in western astrology.
It just turns out that western astrology isn't very accurate.

for the most accurate form of the zodiac you can refer to LeoVirgo's post above. That wheel shows how the western zodiac (innermost wheel) relates in comparison to the most accurate measurement of where the constellations are, in the outermost wheel.

Also, you must remember that none of these constellations or other stars are fixed. Earth is not going to see the same stars in it's sky forever. We orbit the sun, but the sun is moving. in reality, our zillions of orbits around the sun can really be liked to a corkscrew shape or a spire, we never occupy the same space as we have in the past.

therefore, as we are constantly changing our position in space, (over billions of years) we will see a whole new sky. think about what our constellations might look like when our solar system is on the opposite side of the milky way as it is now...

When you really understand this you will realize many things about all of Earth's mythologies that are based on the stars. The stars are just stars. the constellations really are just abstract dot shapes that us humans anthropomorphize into concepts that are relatable.

it's built into human life to look towards the stars for answers. the earth is our mother and the sky is our father.

Metal, Again Excellent!

That gave me such a clear mental image of what is happening.

I don't think I understood it very well before.

And thanks LeoVirgo for this thread. I wish I could give you more stars!

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
reply to post by Agarta

 

you were not incorrect in your previous post, you didn't say anything that isn't the norm in western astrology.
It just turns out that western astrology isn't very accurate.

for the most accurate form of the zodiac you can refer to LeoVirgo's post above. That wheel shows how the western zodiac (innermost wheel) relates in comparison to the most accurate measurement of where the constellations are, in the outermost wheel.

Also, you must remember that none of these constellations or other stars are fixed. Earth is not going to see the same stars in it's sky forever. We orbit the sun, but the sun is moving. in reality, our zillions of orbits around the sun can really be liked to a corkscrew shape or a spire, we never occupy the same space as we have in the past.

therefore, as we are constantly changing our position in space, (over billions of years) we will see a whole new sky. think about what our constellations might look like when our solar system is on the opposite side of the milky way as it is now...

When you really understand this you will realize many things about all of Earth's mythologies that are based on the stars. The stars are just stars. the constellations really are just abstract dot shapes that us humans anthropomorphize into concepts that are relatable.

it's built into human life to look towards the stars for answers. the earth is our mother and the sky is our father.

Okay, so I am still a little confused. You underlined "The Sun is moving" which is exactly what I was showing in the bottom picture I created. Also I do realize the constellations are moving as well(everything is in motion and changing, even though the chart you referred to states "fixed"). I also realize that it is all a spiral as well as my mistake in the picture I made of not inverting the bottom zodiac sense we are traveling backward through it. There is no conflict of explanation in any of this.

The confusion I have is our perception of theses stars have not changed THAT much from the ancients to today. Over billions of years this would be a different perception, agreed. I base this observation on the understanding that there are structures on Earth that are aligned with stars, so either they have not changed, observably over the last 4-6 thousand years, OR they were built to align today not then(which adds to the mystery of their construction).

So with this said, is it that my stating that each is approximately 2000 years per is the issue? Okay so by the chart, the cycle is 26,000 years but they are not equal, using Aries and Taurus as examples, Taurus might be 2132 years where Aries might be 1756 years(just throwing numbers in to show difference, not actually detailing the math). The 13 signs equal the 26,000 years but each is a different amount of time. This I can comprehend and understand. What else am I missing?

reply to post by metalshredmetal


very well said, thanks for all the additions!

reply to post by metalshredmetal


I actually do not recall where I got that wheel. It was online and I was searching for a wheel with the 13 signs. When I found it of course I copied it right away and now use it alot. I have a hand made version of that wheel with an additional outside wheel that kinda bulges out on two sides...holding the other signs like sextans, cetus, bootes ect....to show when the planets or moon drift outside the wheel.

reply to post by Agarta


I think the point of confusion comes in when man tried to fix something that is forever changing. As well as tried to make it all fit into a nice little box, like saying that ages are all the same length of time as well as saying the sun spends the same amount of time in each sign every year.

We are simply, blowing up that box

reply to post by Agarta


I think the crux of your problem is that you need to take into account that our observation of the sun traveling through the zodiac is really caused by the earths orbit around the sun. Astrology is always assuming that the observation of the planets going through the zodiac is based upon earth as the vantage point. a natal chart has no earth going through the zodiac bc the earth is the center of the natal chart, where all the motions are being observed from.

The sun only appears to travel through the zodiac. In reality this is an effect of the earth orbiting the sun, the sun moves through the zodiac only from the perception of earth.

Originally posted by metalshredmetal

Originally posted by blazenresearcher

Great Pic...so your birthday is now??? Also...apparently back in the earlier...Mayan times when the Calendar was 360 days and the Baktun was 144,000 days...and the epochs were 5125 years...they revered the constellation of Ophiuchus...the thirteenth constellation..emminating from the Galactic center most afforded to the elipitical procession.

All that being...apparently our calendar now is totally skewed and messes with galactic resonance or harmonics....so there is a movement now to put the calendar back to the original celestial harmonic.

edit on 12-12-2011 by blazenresearcher because: (no reason given)

I've just finished a book that talks a little about the Mayan calendar and I think you're absolutely right. Apparently their calender was really based on conjunctions with the sun and other planets, and with the galactic center. They could measure conjunction cycles for all the planets and the sun, and could therefore determine the length of the "great year" and when our solar system would once again be aligned with the galactic plane.

The book I read was The Source Field Investigations by David Wilcock. He cites a book called "A Little Book of Coincidence" by John Martineau. Martineau mapped out the orbits of all the planets, and noted at what point conjunctions happen with other planets along each line of orbit. He found that conjunctions would happen at equidistant points from each other in each orbit, which would become sacred geometrical patterns.

For example, Every 8 Earth years, or thirteen Venusian years, they line up to form each corner of a pentagon. Other geometrical relations were discovered, like if you take the sphere of jupiter's orbit and nest three cubes, three octahedrons or any other of combination of these two together, one inside the other, you get a sphere in the center that is exactly the size of earth's orbit - with 99.8% precision.

The radius of Saturn's orbit is equal to the circumference of Mars' orbit. The circumference of Saturn's orbit is the same as the diameter of Neptune's orbit. jupiter and Saturn make a conjunction every 20 years, but each conjunction appears at a new point within the great circle of their shared orbits When you plot out these six conjunctions within that shared circle and connect the dots, you get a perfect Star of David.

These things suggest that there really is a harmony in the spheres. David Wilcock posits that the ideal form of the solar system would be all the planets and moons with perfectly round orbits, and not elongated oval orbits. Each of these orbits would be in perfect vibrational harmony with all of the other orbits in the solar system and together they create a most coherent, efficient, perfect co-existence with each other. David Wilcock therefore points out that the current existence of the Asteroid Belt and elongated orbits is evidence of a solar-system-wide catastrophe in which some celestial body between the orbit of Mars and Jupiter was destroyed. Some malevolent variable in the cosmos effectively detuned the solar system.

Therefore, I wouldn't doubt for one moment that The Powers That Were would try to "detune" our culture's sun/moon cycle and whole calender. There's a lot to be learned about that Mayan calender...

edit on 12/12/11 by metalshredmetal because: (no reason given)

Interesting! David's theory is that the Earth used to be in perfect harmony (as in heaven on earth) 360 day orbit..a perfect cirlce. Once the great "catastrophe" happened...most likely coinciding to the "Fall from Grace", Earth then had an eliptical 365 day orbit....Not at all harmonic!

It makes perfect sense!!! Wow!