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On American Soil ?

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posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by princeofpeace
The funny thing is everyone on here appears to think that somehow the US is the only country vulnerable to this. Dont you know that any nuke launched from a US sub or nukes staioned at a NATO base could be sued as an EMP counterattack over any other country? No one is immune this this or its response.

I'm perfectly aware that other nations could fall to this, but those other countries aren't exactly part of the topic and my head is still pounding from last nights hangover so I never bothered bringing it up.

I admit it, I gave into the desire to drink away the problems created by the NDAA bill. If the military comes after me, at least I won't care when they pump me full of lead.




posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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so maybe china secretly allies with mexico and suprise attack i know unlikely but say they were here in massive numbers with supply etc.

conservative estimates of 250 million guns spread out amonst 40 million has gotta to be a scary, scary, number to plan for. just saying, an armed,educated, thinking, adult that hates you completely, times 40 million.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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As a born and bred Bostonian with a family lineage that goes back to 1637, I can honestly say any external threat by ground would be extinguished within a month. Say an hypothetical EMP attack occurs, (which I highly doubt exists yet) and the power grid is shut off. Yes, there would be panic and a mass exodus of non born citizens. Most non citizens would quickly escape back to their home countries. Which leaves the natives of the land. The ones who know the terrain, the climate, Where to hide, where to hunt. You pardon all prisoners and hope they fight for their families. Your talking about a country where one out of 3 own a firearm and where military bases exists within 20 miles of each main city. Where 1 out of 20 americans are or know someone in the police force or military and 1 out of 50 is a packed to the nine criminal who would have more than enough guns to sell to average citizens. That being said, even If a EMP attack did occur we would have sunk the ships to the bottom of the sea before they put their boots on land.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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No foreign military can ever occupy our country successfully. We have the most powerful nation in the world...along with a majority of crazy wacky trigger happy Patriots.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Are you talking about today or 50 years from now? Today there isn't a nation on the planet that can challenge the States ANYWHERE. In 50 years that will change, unless the States do. I'm somewhat insulted that it was said that an attack could come through Canada. Are we not paranoid enough to protect your northern border?


No one nation, but what if China, Russia, and Brazil ganged up with some smaller nations and attacked us on multiple fronts?!

Maybe so, maybe not.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


Granted, the moats aren't quite as big as they used to be, but those two big oceans are a serious logistical problem for any would be invader from outside...

Canada certainly wouldn't play along. Mexico might, but that too is doubtful...especially since they'd have to worry about the aftermath of that invasions defeat... Repercussions are a bitch.

It would take a coalition of nations very hostile to the US. ...and I can't, right off the top of my head think of any, for even the foreseeable future that could even begin to think about something like this.

China? In fifty years, they're going to have their own issues to deal with.

India? Possibly. They're growing rapidly. Well educated. But again, they've their own issues that aren't going to go away anytime soon.

South America? Brazil is a remote possibility, along with a coalition of nations, but I can't envision even a coalition of South American nations posing a credible threat militarily to the US.

Europe? Unlikely I should think, unless some form of extreme madness overcomes them, they've no reason to.

Russia? Even in the days of the rompin', stompin' Red Army they knew better. In Europe, maybe they could have taken the NATO alliance...but now, on the US homefield...not going to happen.

Africa? Doesn't seem likely, unless something drastic changes over the next couple of decades.

A possible coalition of Middle Eastern nations under a banner of Islam? This seems the most likely, though not very; scenario. Even then... the US will have to have fallen on very hard times, indeed.

Logistically, invading North America is a nightmare.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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I don't know about all of you, but i live next to the RR tracks and i see on a daily basis, day and night, black fuel tanks pulled by the trains that go on and on and on day and night. headed North i think. I say i think, because that is the direction of the tracks go. To where exactly, i have no clue.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Are you talking about today or 50 years from now? Today there isn't a nation on the planet that can challenge the States ANYWHERE. In 50 years that will change, unless the States do. I'm somewhat insulted that it was said that an attack could come through Canada. Are we not paranoid enough to protect your northern border?
reply to post by intrepid
 


Clearly not paranoid enough to protect your southern border.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Even if some foreign land wanted to use military actions against us and cross over into our country, it'd be impossible. We pretty much can recognize any major military deployment overseas (but can't detect illegals crossing our borders) so we would know far in advance if there were any such threats. Also, since we dominate quite a few other countries, I'd say we have some loyal allies who'd also aid us in preventing a military invasion of sorts.

So. No. Military invasion of America = not happening. Ever.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by cloaked4u
I don't know about all of you, but i live next to the RR tracks and i see on a daily basis, day and night, black fuel tanks pulled by the trains that go on and on and on day and night. headed North i think. I say i think, because that is the direction of the tracks go. To where exactly, i have no clue.



The trains tanks are labeled PROCOR. I looked and sorry, i thought they were fuel tanks maybe , maybe not. anyway's. here is procor products www.procorchemicals.com...
interesting. what do yo think.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Sort of off-topic;

I think the reasons against invasion are why America has been able to grow into such a powerful and unchallenged nation. Unfortunately, having such a powerful and stable nation exist in the world has greatly increased the opportunity for other nations, such as China, to stabilize and grow powerful as well, which in my opinion, would not have been possible otherwise.

I know this is stating the obvious, but I think most take for granted the world's situation. Never before (at least in recorded history) has there been such a high level of technology and worldwide access for people of any nation.

Would I sound arrogant to suggest that the USA is the keystone by which "peace" has been established across the land?

I'm sure many of you would be quick to point out the various rogue states and factions in various places on the globe, but there will always be people ready to undermine the majority, and we should be glad for this. It tells us that the rebellious spirit in which the USA was created is still alive within the human race. Though sometimes misguided, we're still an animal that fights for perceived injustices.

Having read all that, would anyone really not support a one world government, if it means nothing more than a safe planet to inhabit for all of mankind? Is individual identity so important to you that you would slaughter your neighbors in the name of freedom and individuality?

Information knows no identity. Your online presence has no preconceived bias. Your thoughts are not your ancestral roots.

If we're all Anonymous, then it should not matter where in the world we live, or what background we represent. Your online persona is wholly "you", without the separations of ethnicity to drive people apart.

Something to think about.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Logistics, Logistics, Logistics.....

Lets say you, the invading Force, have Only two ways, by Air or Sea.
By land isn't probable because there's really no way to the North and to the South any gathering of troops that big would be very noticeable, also very nukeable. Not to mention you would have to get them there also.

By Air....
Lets see you have to get everything and everyone together, Get them here in one piece, Make sure they take their Objectives, Resupply them, keep their crap working, Which is a hassle because you probably run metric and the U.S. on on that bassawarkds imperial system, You probably run 220V etc, etc.
Where do you get the fuel for your vehicles etc?
Gas stations won't have enough and will run dry in a week anyway with panic buying etc.
Parts, bring 'em with you.
Ammo, bring it with you, hope you don't run out.
Food: you could scavenge local but since most stores only have a 2 day stock anyway that will be gone by the time you get here.
*note the locals will be Cold, tired, hungry, armed and probably pissed by the time you encounter them.

Red dawn fantasies aside Rednecks won't do well against trained troops.
Trained ex-service members operating in small squads will be a pain in the butt though.
Think, lot of Farmland + lot's Fertilizer = A lot of IEDs.
And these guys learned lessons from Afghanistan and Iraq.
They won't defeat you but they will make your troops wish they had stayed home.

The first troops here will have to be Airborne and they can only carry so much equipment and arms.
Unless they get reinforced soon they will get chewed up and spit out.
That goes for anybody's airborne troops even the U.S.
Read up on the British 1st Airborne division at the battle of Arnhem in WWII
Airborne troops look cool but they are really just the tactical version of a speed bump.

And even if you did use airborne troops how do you get them here?
www.sinodefence.com...
Chinese air force
Bomber/attack: 600
Fighter: 1,300
AWACS: 4
Large transport: 80 (A few million divided by 80 = not a lot of leg room )
Tanker: 10
Special mission: 30

Russian air force Transport Aircraft
en.wikipedia.org...
620 transport aircraft

Those are rough numbers but they really don't have a lot.

This can be supplemented by Commercial transport as the Russians did in the Invasion of Afghanistan.
But again how to you get your heavy crap over here?

By sea....
Ship transport?
Not feasible unless you sunk all of the U.S. Navy submarines.
Plus you would have a very long and exposed supply chain.
The U.S. subs would run out of ammo before they ran out of targets.
Not to mention U.K. Subs and maybe other allied countries.

So in a nutshell you don't invade the U.S.
You could cripple the U.S. with a Cyber attack, take out U.S Satellites and EMP just for good measure.
And then tactical nukes on U.S. Military targets over seas.
Then rush your troops in and seize strategic areas that you want, Mid east oil Fields, Twain etc.
That creates a political problem, The U.S. and it's allies can't nuke your troops with out damaging the same strategic assets. And they can't politically justify a Nuke strike on your cities since no U.S. or allied cities were lost.
(But the U.S. has been known to do bat Sh$$T crazy stuff before)

So it comes down to a long protracted conventional war.
But no invasion of the U.S.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Given the sheer size of this country and how spread out it is, I can't imagine that a war on US soil would be a good idea militarily speaking. I can't imagine it would happen to be honest, this land isn't exactly hospitable to being taken over like that, too many ways to be defeated. It just doesn't make for good logic to try and have a full scale war on a land mass of this size.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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The only feasible invasion point would be the Mexican-American border, as any other non-populated coastline doesn't have the features to support large-scale troop landings. Plus, the number of ships required to transport this many soldiers across either the Atlantic or Pacific oceans would definitely raise suspicions, and give the military ample warning time for preparation.

However, through intelligence reports and civilian assets, the build-up of foreign troops in Mexico would definitely not go unnoticed. Mexico would also have to be an ally of the invading force, which is a big obstacle. Then, if the country wishing to invade the US invaded Mexico first, there again would be ample warning and the military would secure the border.

I do not think there are many countries that would initiate aggressive action against the US with nuclear weapons, because it is pointless, and will create an endless cycle where no side wins. I would hope that if the US got nuked, that we would not respond with our own nuclear arsenal.

Many people say that nukes are there as a deterrent, and I hope that is true. I think they wouldn't be used, except as a last-ditch effort when some country's back is up against the wall. The only country that I know of that has talked about using nuclear weapons is Israel, with the Samson option.

So many of our troops being overseas will NOT affect how adequately we can defend against a land-based invasion, and here is why: Any foreign army's troop-landing efforts would give our military ample notice, allowing enough time to transfer troops from other portions of the world.

I can think of no scenario, when you include not only the militaristic strategies, but the political wheeling and dealing, and intelligence resources, that another country could even come close to invading America without us knowing.

If another country attempted to invade Canada or Mexico, in an attempt to give them an invasion platform, the US would back either of those countries, as to prevent any hostile force from gaining border territory. So to sum it all up, any attempt at an invasion would never go unnoticed, and therefore we would respond with our full military strength, which only a couple of countries could stand toe-to-toe with.

Plus, any invasion that goes up against land-based defensive forces is at a tremendous disadvantage. Remember the losses on D-Day? And that was after the allies tricked the Axis powers, causing them to not reinforce the coast. If they had reinforced the coast, the invasion probably would have failed.

A land-based invasion, as I already described, would also fail, even though the invading force isn't put to such a disadvantage compared to a sea-based invasion. So the US would be able to adequately defend against any CONVENTIONAL invasion attempts, and probably even nuclear strikes followed by an invasion.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by mash3d

Lets see you have to get everything and everyone together, Get them here in one piece, Make sure they take their Objectives, Resupply them, keep their crap working, Which is a hassle because you probably run metric and the U.S. on on that bassawarkds imperial system, You probably run 220V etc, etc.

Actually, an invasion (which I consider unlikely) would not start with a complete invasion. The start would be sudden small strike forces in strategic areas to usher in the larger forces. One piece isn't much of a problem either; air drops would be plenty sufficient for an introductory force. Their equipment wouldn't likely be breaking down immediately, at least not before reinforcements could arrive. Metric vs. Imperial measurements are almost a non-issue, since the US also uses metric a lot. And electrical power would be a non-issue as well; converters are commercially available and have been for decades. I'm sure the military has some.


Where do you get the fuel for your vehicles etc?
Gas stations won't have enough and will run dry in a week anyway with panic buying etc.

A sudden strike would mean no one in that area is buying anything. A typical gas station has plenty of fuel for a small invasion, especially a truck stop.


Ammo, bring it with you, hope you don't run out.

Or use weaponry of a standard caliber. Or use weapons readily available (pawn shops, sporting goods stores) when your own ammo runs out.


Food: you could scavenge local but since most stores only have a 2 day stock anyway that will be gone by the time you get here.

Again, when soldiers start dropping from the skies firing bullets, no one is going to be running to the gas stations or the grocery stores. That 2-day supply is based on the served area, not on a small force taking what they need. It will last a lot longer for them.


Red dawn fantasies aside Rednecks won't do well against trained troops.

Not at first. They'll be too shocked to realize what's happening, and most of them will die. A few will survive, though, and as soon as they can regroup they know the terrain, know who has weapons, know how to live off the land, and will have no qualms using guerrilla tactics, One redneck can take out a few hundred invaders, and for every one that drops, two more will start firing.

"A gun behind every blade of grass"


Trained ex-service members operating in small squads will be a pain in the butt though.
Think, lot of Farmland + lot's Fertilizer = A lot of IEDs.
And these guys learned lessons from Afghanistan and Iraq.
They won't defeat you but they will make your troops wish they had stayed home.

A lot of these guys are also rednecks. I tend to think of the two groups as one.

But yeah, vets and rednecks will make someone really wish they had stayed home. Remember that it was this kind of thing that beat us in Vietnam and beat Russia in Afghanistan.


So it comes down to a long protracted conventional war.
But no invasion of the U.S.

That's exactly why the US must first be crippled, and why I expect a non-conventional invasion should an invasion be attempted. We agree on this, even if we disagree on some details of why.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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You folks may mostly have it COMPLETELY WRONG
The US is already OCCUPIED right under your noses and gun sites


The US Senate's Defense Authorization Bill redefines America as a "battlefield" and authorizes US troops to conduct military arrests of civilians on US soil, and to indefinitely detain citizens without charge or trial. The ACLU wants you to write to your senator and demand that this insanity not pass.

boingboing.net...

the US is the battleground, freedom is the target, and the banksters who represent tyranny are the agressors NOT NATIONAL agressors GLOBALIST agressors

the TSA and the fema etc are indications that you are ALREADY UNDER OCCUPATION...according to defence departement proceedures for controlling an occupied state

please read
www.lawofwar.org...

seriously all discussions of wrestling shouldn't be taken seriously in a rational debate
edit on 12-12-2011 by Danbones because: spellin and added bla bla conclusion, and jibe at the video gamers..... hoof!
edit on 12-12-2011 by Danbones because: I can see through things but not at them, more spelling lol ouchie



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by tvtexan
 


God help the army who tries to invade Texas...



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by elevatedone
 

Canada certainly wouldn't play along. Mexico might, but that too is doubtful...especially since they'd have to worry about the aftermath of that invasions defeat... Repercussions are a bitch.


Mexico is actually the most likely to invade...... kinda.
Mexico is currently in civil war, and people forget this way too often. Mexican President Felipe Calderon declared war on the drug cartels that had made life in Mexico hell. Calderon leaves office in a year, and I'm willing to bet the next president will not have as strong a will. Mexico can easily lose this war after Calderon leaves office, then what? What happens if the government in Mexico is controlled directly by the drug cartels? Those cartels will have unfettered power to create tunnels into America to sell drugs, which would spike in supply.

Drug cartels are vicious, do you think they wouldn't try to take over America? They would have the Mexican military to back them. and the unlimited resources pf the Cartels.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by liberty2012
 


I agree with you, but according to This Site Texas isn't even in the top 20 for gun deaths per capita. Now, one can read into that in many ways. Maybe Texans are just more respectful of their guns? Maybe they are more wary of guns? Maybe they just have more space to hide the bodies?


According to This Washington Post poll, Texas was way down the list in # of respondents that admitted to having guns in or around the home. #1 was Montana, with Alaska, Arkansas, and West Virginia closely behind.

Still, the statistic that really counts is this one:
U.S. Most Armed Country with 90 guns per 100 people!

Behind every blade of grass indeed.
edit on 12-12-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Not to sell out my own state, but Texas hasn't historically been the kind of state where all the guns are necessarily registered...





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