Palestine Exists 2.0

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by xuenchen

 

2000 years ago the internet didn't exist.

Time creates borders. Instant information flow erodes them.

This concept is very simple to understand, and is what separates the past from the present.

I'm not following your response.

But, international corporations existed long before computers and the internet !

If that was your point.

Borders are economic boundaries.

The E.U. is one recent example.

The U.S. expansions are one more.

The British colonial expansions are another.

It has always been about commerce.

You need, I sell.

You sell, I need.

The Israel/Palestine issue is similar. Economics and financing.

That's one reason why Palestine exists.

reply to post by CharlesMartel

You misquoted Newt.

I don't recall "quoting" him. It would be appreciated if you pointed out where I "quoted" Newt.

I believe his exact words were "The Palestinians are a made up people"

You can quote me on that

I found some interesting quotes.

34). "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other, thus giving room for our own people." (Rabbi Reichorn, in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

35). "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of the Jewish State in Palestine." (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).

36). "Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later..." (The Jewish Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June, 1934)

48). "Israel won the war [WW I]; we made it; we thrived on it; we profited from it. It was our supreme revenge on Christianity." (The Jewish Ambassador from Austria to London, Count Mensdorf, 1918).

63). "It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over fact." (H. G. Wells, The Outline of History).

88). "Let me tell you the following words as if I were showing you the rings of a ladder leading upward and upward...The Zionist Congress; the English Uganda proposition; the future World War; the Peace Conference where, with the help of England, a free and Jewish Palestine will be created." (Max Nordau, 6th Zionist Congress in Balse, Switzerland, 1903)

100). "The Gulag Archipelago, 'he informed an incredulous world that the blood-maddened Jewish terrorists had murdered sixty-six million victims in Russia from 1918 to 1957! Solzhenitsyn cited Cheka Order No. 10, issued on January 8, 1921: 'To intensify the repression of the bourgeoisie.'" (Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago)

Nice people

160). "The Jews might have had Uganda, Madagascar, and other places for the establishment of a Jewish Fatherland, but they wanted absolutely nothing except Palestine, not because the Dead Sea water by evaporation can produce five trillion dollars of metaloids and powdered metals; not because the subsoil of Palestine contains twenty times more petroleum than all the combined reserves of the two Americas; but because Palestine is the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa, because Palestine constitutes the veritable center of world political power, the strategic center for world control." (Nahum Goldman, President World Jewish Congress).

Text 313). "Pharisaism became Talmudism...But THE SPIRIT of the ANCIENT PHARISEE SURVIVES UNALTERED. When the Jew...studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used in the Palestinian academies. From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy, Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia and eastern Europe generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered..." (The Pharisees, by Louis Finkelstein, Foreword, Vol. 1).

314). "The Talmud derives its authority from the position held by the ancient (Pharisee) academies. The teachers of those academies, both of Babylonia and of Palestine, were considered the rightful successors of the older Sanhedrin...At the present time, the Jewish people have no living central authority comparable in status to the ancient Sanhedrins or the later academies. Therefore, ANY DECISION REGARDING THE JEWISH RELIGION MUST BE BASED ON THE TALMUD AS THE FINAL RESUME OF THE TEACHING OF THOSE AUTHORITIES WHEN THEY EXISTED." (The Jews - Their History, Culture, and Religion, by Rabbi Louis Finkelstein,

reply to post by xuenchen


International corporations functioned differently before the electronic revolution. go back a century or two, and international corporations like the East Indian Company functioned a lot differently than if it existed today. Today a board and a ceo directs everything, with total control. Back then, a president ruled an area of land directed by his country. It was much more like a private country or colony. Some kind of warped fascism. Today, only the board and director are part of the government, and through clandestine means. And it is far more corporation above the government than government above the corp.


All this comes from the rate of information flow. Autonomy comes with slower information.

reply to post by astrafax

OH COOL, sourceless quotes.

So you know they're legit.

No one dared try and refute my post back on page 3 or 4? How embarrASSing for the OP. This thread should be moved to the hoax forums.

Originally posted by KJV1611
No one dared try and refute my post back on page 3 or 4? How embarrASSing for the OP. This thread should be moved to the hoax forums.

Well of course a 'discussion about the truth' is the last thing going on in a thread like this - they all know perfectly well that Palestine was invented for political propaganda purposes.

Originally posted by KJV1611
No one dared try and refute my post back on page 3 or 4? How embarrASSing for the OP. This thread should be moved to the hoax forums.

Don't you get it yet?

The Jew haters – whenever faced with real facts – either turn to use “Remember USS Liberty”, peaceful loving “Rachel corrie”, or just open a new thread.
I bet there's going to be soon another one named: “ Palestine Exists 3.0 “ the ultimate final proof.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by xuenchen

 

2000 years ago the internet didn't exist.

Time creates borders. Instant information flow erodes them.

This concept is very simple to understand, and is what separates the past from the present.

Saying instant information flow erodes borders wouldn't be correct as eroding would signal that instant information flow would slowly make borders dissapear. Even in this global, integrated, interdependent and instant information world, borders are still important and principle aspects of sovereignty. What globalisation and instant information have done is make borders more porous. However some countries can still avoid this, but to massive costs (i.e. North Korea and Myanmar).

reply to post by KJV1611

Listen guys, this argument is so old, so try and refute the following:

Yes, there were people living in the now land of Israel before 1917-48.
And yes, they can trace there origins back to the Canaanites as Namaste1001 said.

But your missing the point. The point is there was NEVER a nation or state called Palestine.

Palestine was only the name of the land in the area giving by the Romans, derived from the original inhabitants known as Philistines! It would be the same as saying I'm from the Rocky Mountains in American. The Rocky Mountains is not a nation or state, its an area with a name.

Now here is the big one. When Israel became a Nation in 1948, they DID NOT kick out the people living in Palestine! They accepted them into the new nation!!! The ones that refused because of being hatefully raised as a Muslim are now the terrorist known as Hamas, Fata, etc that live in disputed lands that really belong to Israel according the the UN/Nato agreement in 1948.

Now, try and refute this.

Did you somehow miss the two pages of replies after your post that do indeed 'refute' your post?

The British mandate created a state of Palestine in 1922. It had it's own currency and issued passports, as well as it's governing officials;

Passport posted HERE
Currency posted HERE

More coinage from this "fictional" non-existent state;






In addition, both Britain, Palestine, and the Zionist Organization, along with Turkey and Transjordan recognized Palestine as a legitimate state in 1922 - over two decades before the creation of the state of Israel;
Correspondence With the Palestine Arab Delegation and the Zionist Organisation, 1922

They mention a census conducted in 1922 (1922 census of Palestine), the population is given as thus:

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 1,454 Hindus, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans

The 1931 census shows:

759,717 Muslims, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, 9,148 Druzes, 350 Bahais, 182 Samaritans, and 421 "no religion".[3] A special problem was posed by the nomadic Bedouin of the south, who were reluctant to cooperate. Estimates of each tribe were made by officers of the district administration according to local observation. The total of 759,717 Muslims included 66,553 persons enumerated by this method.

The population was by majority Palestinian Arab, yet in 1948 the UN partitioned the majority of the country to the Israel state. The Arab Delegation, in their letter above, complained that the basis for their refusal to permit the Israeli state was the vast number of Jews (which they referred to as "Alien Jews") flocking to Palestine from Western Europe. These were NOT Palestinian Jews who co-existed alongside the Palestinian Arabs, but indeed foreigners answering the call of the Zionist Organization.



PS: more than 127 nations around the world formally recognize Palestine as a nation state.
International recognition of the State of Palestine
Israel and the United States notwithstanding.

The Zionist Organization had a lot more than just the re-occupation of Jerusalem on mind - they - in their own words - wanted to create a one-world government with Jerusalem as the World Capital.

Chairman of World Zionist organization, 1922: World Government is “a Jewish Idea”, Jerusalem to be “world capital”

Nahum Sokolow, then Chairman of the Zionist Executive Committee, declared at a 1922 Zionist conference in Calsbad, California:

“The League of Nations is a Jewish idea, and Jerusalem some day will become the capital of the world’s peace”

See article for pics of 1922 newsprint.

Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews, along with Christians existed in Palestine in relative peace, even if the world wars drove Jews out of Europe (WWI did that nearly as much as WWII). What didn't work for the Arab League was ZIONISM. It is Zionism, even now, that is leading vapid idiots like Gingrich to declare Palestinians to be an "invented people".

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Palestinians and Arab leaders say there is no such thing as a Palestinian People, but you insist.
Lol....fine.

None of you wrote proves there were a Palestinian people. On the contrary!

Do you know the history of the Anglo-Palestine bank? (א"י)

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you notice what is written in the brackets?
It says Eretz Israel (א"י)





notice the bank is located in Tel Aviv? Or do you people now claim that even Tel Aviv was a Palestinian city?

Look at the stamp. Do you recognize the place? This is Rachel's tomb. A holly Jewish place at the outskirts of Jerusalem. Notice the writings in Hebrew :'Palestina'. The name given to the region by the Romans, not by Arabs. Notice again the Eretz Israel in Brackets.




This is the Nesher brewery in Rishon Letzion. Are you now sugesting that that city was a Palestinian Arab city? This brewery exist to this day.



meet Palalum factory from Tel Aviv, an Israeli company for fabricating metal and Aluminum.


A happy new year's card from the Anglo Palestina bank. Again; read the history of it.
happy new year greeting card




read the 'MANDATE FOR PALESTINE'

unispal.un.org...

Nowhere is there a reference to a Palestinian people.

Read the “The Weizmann-Feisal Agreement”

www.mfa.gov.il...

Nowhere is there a reference to a Palestinian people.
Do you even grasp the importance of this agreement?

reply to post by gravitational

Errrr...I think you missed the link that Blackmarketeer posted (Correspondence With the Palestine Arab Delegation and the Zionist Organisation, 1922) where the "Palestine Arab Delegation" (the name they used for themselves) talked about (and used the exact phrasing of) the "People of Palestine" and "Palestinians" when referring to themselves and the people they represented, and mentioned how they had a large degree of self-rule afforded to them under the Turks.

Although since the "People of Palestine" and the "Palestinians" are a imaginary and non-existent , I guess that must have not happened.

And I love it when people say "The Jews didn't kick the Palestinians (oops...sorry, I meant the native....I mean occupying terrorist..farmers) out, the Arabs told them to get out!", and they repeat this on and on and on, despite there being a huge mass of evidence to the exact contrary, where the arabs were actually telling them via radio broadcasts to stay calm and not panic and run away. Although I guess that was all imagined by the imaginary Palestinian people, who would have totally imaginarily been accepted into the new Israeli nation, instead of imaginarily being massacred like what happened in the imaginary village of Deir Yassan, which had made the mistake of staying neutral in the conflict between the zionists and the imaginary Palestinians.

KJV1611 tried to use the "counter-example" of the Rocky Mountains, although I think he failed to realise that the Rocky Mountains were a sacred home to many of the Native American tribes, including the Apache, the Blackfoot, the Cheyenne, the Sioux, etc. I guess they didn't exist either, so it was okay to almost totally eradicate them.... they didn't "have a nation".

Someone posted this earlier on in this thread...it seems very relevant all over again .

reply to post by gravitational


You are so blind!

I have seen you post some pathetic comments but this one might take the cake

You show pictures trying to disprove the fact that Palestine exists, but some of the pictures even include the word PALESTINE! Did you even look at the pictures before you posted them or did you just find them on a Zionist blog and rush to ATS to upload them because someone told you they disprove Palestine's existence?

reply to post by gravitational

The Jew haters – whenever faced with real facts – either turn to use “Remember USS Liberty”, peaceful loving “Rachel corrie”, or just open a new thread. I bet there's going to be soon another one named: “ Palestine Exists 3.0 “ the ultimate final proof.

Is it a requirement that you set yourself up to hit absolute rock bottom on any thread that discusses Israel/Palestine? Your cause is far from noble, but you're sure not helping it regardless. You're debate skills aren't up to par, perhaps you should let the other shills pick up the slack because your game plan just isn't working.

You are the posterboy for labeling the criticism of as Israel as Anti-Semitic!

There are two more installments in the 2. series before we move on to 3.0.

Just saying

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


As I pointed out a long time ago, Whenever you are faced with facts, you immediately turn to Ad hominem, Straw man circular arguments. But then I get censored for calling your behavior “childish”...

Dude, Okay: Tel Aviv was a Palestinian city, Rishon Letsion was Palestinian, Ramat Gan was Palestinian, the Anglo- Palestina bank was Palestinian, and in those bills and stamps, the words 'Eretz Israel' do not appear.

And you call me pathetic???

Oh and by the way, I hold similar bills and documents in my private collection. Just because I googled them means nothing in this debate, since instead of refuting them, you turn to your usual whining...”did you just find them on a Zionist blog”.

did you know that in Arabic, the so called Palestinians pronounce it “Fi – li – stin “ ? There is no 'P' in their Alphabet. Not only was the name Palestina given to the region by the Romans, naming it after the ' Pli sh tim ' (it's in the bible' read it) people who came from the Greek islands, the Palestinians themselves argue all of a sudden that they are the decedents of the Jebusite.

I think you should already start thread number 3, since it's clear #1 and #2 didn't work well for you.
Worry not. I'm convinced you will be given a chance for more sequels by the mods.

reply to post by gravitational


I admit my post may have lacked proper etiquette but my statements were truthful and were not due to any "facts" that you presented. My rudeness originated from you calling us Jew haters. You accuse us of resorting to name calling, but any time we disprove your lies you call us Jew haters. Surely you must see the flaws in your logic.

We obviously disagree on this issue but it does not change the fact that you spread propaganda from Zionist web sites. This tactic of yours has been pointed out in numerous threads including this one.

Why does the existence of Palestine bother you so much. I think you are bigoted against Islam and racist towards Arabs. You may consider his a personal attack but I assure you that is not my intention. These are honest observations I have noticed during our interactions.

I'm willing to admit my bias and the faults in the side that I support meanwhile you blindly support your side and blatantly refuse to logically consider a possibilities from both points of view. You are very difficult to reason with which is why most our interactions are never pleasant ones.

Even as we provide undeniable proof of Palestine's existence going as far back as ancient times you still echo the same non sense and refuse to admit the obvious existence of the Palestinian people.

I don't know what else to say since all attempts to reason with you are always met with stubbornness and deflections. I have plenty more to say but I'm on my mobile so I will save the rest for Palestine Exists 2.75

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I really don't see a need to stay in the united states to work though. It is indeed more porous. Perhaps that's the better word.

I simply view the world as a market of ideas and ideologies, and when one becomes unfavorable, I will leave for another. This is very contrasting to the past, where you rode it out to the end with your nation.