Stephen Hawking: Alien contact could be risky

I don't think with life being so abundant here on Earth, life is void in the universe til x amount of light years away. Basically our Solar System is empty of life, besides Earth? I don't believe that. I believe there is native life throughout our Solar System and I think there are ETI already here, for whatever reasons they want.

We just have satellites up in Space, it's not like we can have a manned mission with HD cameras and have anthropology type excursions through all the alien landscapes in our Solar System.

I would think there to be a lot of traffic/activity out in space. I don't think life is void til the next star that harbors life.

While aliens may or may not be a threat there's plenty more to worry about for the modern paranoiac. Corrupt governents, badly placed and designed nuclear power stations, nuclear weapons in general, biotech scientist saying " i'm sure i left that vial of airbourne ebola flu hybrid around here somewhere", economic collapse, wars in Pakistan, Iran, Syria leading to greater conflicts, erosion of culture by dire tv, music and films, asteroids gone wild, Teletubbys. There's quite a few for the discerning worrier to be concerned about !

Aliens are pretty low on the worry list.

p.s - it's the rise of the tellytubbys i'm most concerned about.

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
I know Hawking is a genius...but couldn't he have applied a little logic here?

If you've mastered intergalactic travel, then presumably you've reached a level of technology where you've also mastered the ability to create whatever kind of matter you want - out of other matter - though particle collision. Under these conditions, they would never need to find 'natural resources', just more matter - or perhaps just energy to convert into matter.

I have seen way to many asumptions like this in the thread and even people wishing the man dead !?


You are the one applying logic to the subject ?


Right so according to you intergalactic travel equals - you can make any kind of matter you like

Followed by - therefore you dont need to find natural resources just more matter
(how that even makes sense is beyond me)

And thus Aliens wont ever be a threat to us and hawking simply did not apply your amazing logic as he should have done in the first place.



So you make a completly baseless asumption that you dreamed up yourself wich also does not even have any logic or sense and continue to make conclusions based on it.This shows why hawking is as intelligent and respected in sience as he is and you are not.



I really do not see the problem people have with hawking's statements.

He says 'to his mathematic brain/way of thinking i' it is just imposible to not have any other life in the universe but just uswich indeed is mathematicly nigh on imposible.IF aliens do stumble upon us and are indeed so much more evolved (wich would be likely in that scenario) it would more then likely be bad news for us,

Simple logic and deduction is where that opinion is build upon if you ask me.Life,nature and our history alone reflect and confirm this.It is if you ask me the most likely scenario if it would come to pass but nowhere does hawking say that that is how it will be if or when first contact occurs.



Peace V

Originally posted by AceWombat04
For all we know, the very concepts of tolerance, altruism, compassion, etc. could be unique to human beings. To assume that any advanced species would have to somehow naturally or inevitably be benevolent seems like potential folly in my opinion.

You make a good point as well. Maybe "potential folly", but that's far from anything more than a reckless assumption. Of course you could say the same thing about your point, because no we don't know what morals if at all any alien species would have, so I do understand that. Maybe they are like Lions, and they devour anything that they come in contact with and can dominate? We just don't know what dangers are out there. If you look at our world and it's natural cruelty, I myself would expect a very brutal species from the Cosmos arriving someday here on planet Earth. ~SheopleNation

Both Hawkings and Kaku have been watching a bit too much sci-fi.

come here to steal our resources...yes because this is the only place in the universe we have a healthy supply of...erm...

give me a minute here...only place that has...ummmm...

oh, I know. Dorito shelled tacos!
Thats it...they are here for our taco bells...red alert number one. set phasers on brain mush.

Seriously, how can highly respectable scientist be so idiotic on this subject anyhow. What do we have that is not freely available in space without a bunch of primates with pointy sticks guarding it..

Originally posted by AceWombat04
For all we know, the very concepts of tolerance, altruism, compassion, etc. could be unique to human beings. To assume that any advanced species would have to somehow naturally or inevitably be benevolent seems like potential folly in my opinion.

Wanted to weigh in on this also actually.

I don't believe this can possibly be true. Reason being, imagine a species that arose beyond simple animal..enough to make giant weapons of mass destruction (a necessary first step towards interstellar ability) that didn't have a healthy dose of tolerance, compassion, etc.

Simply put, such a species (if it was able to actually even evolve beyond hunter) would end up destroying itself long before it even reached the nearest moon.
No compassion, no tolerance...it would be perpetual warfare beyond anything we could understand..on their planet. so, it is illogical to think this would be a likelyhood.

Whereas, a species that had hyper-inflated beleviolent tendencys would fast track to the stars due to exceptional cooperation on a global (and eventually galactic) scale...and would eventually be the "gatekeepers" of the universe.

Simple rule. 3 working together makes a monument, 3 working against each other makes craters

reply to post by chrismicha77


hawking is a #in dumb ass 2 me and the big bang theory is #ing stupid

I agree with him completely.

We forget these aliens are not bound to any human sense or morals whatsoever. It is a human assumption that any advanced species must be compassionate, kind, or even mildly empathetic.

It is quite possible, and most likely probably they would simply be dangerously indifferent. They may simply come along and take our resources, barely a thought to the primative life they either sweep aside or destroy.

And I have no idea why people assume interstellar travel means resources would therefore no longer be needed. Do you really think your smarter than Hawking? Lols.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Most of our modern development didn't come "despite warfare", it came from that conflict.

Both world wars and the Cold War gave us computers, the Internet, the space program, radar, sonar, synthetic rubber, flat panel displays, jet engines, hypersonic flight, satellites, cellular communications, GPS, flat panel displays, etc.

Even the War on Terror has fueled major advances in medical technology, neuroprosthetics, robotics, AI, driverless cars and powered exoskeleton development.

The chances are high that every species out there that has developed civilization is the apex predator of its planet, advanced their civilization through war, and driven by the base instincts of a predator to explore and expand territory, while exploiting other species as resources.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I don't believe this can possibly be true. Reason being, imagine a species that arose beyond simple animal..enough to make giant weapons of mass destruction (a necessary first step towards interstellar ability) that didn't have a healthy dose of tolerance, compassion, etc.

Simply put, such a species (if it was able to actually even evolve beyond hunter) would end up destroying itself long before it even reached the nearest moon.
No compassion, no tolerance...it would be perpetual warfare beyond anything we could understand..on their planet. so, it is illogical to think this would be a likelyhood.

Whereas, a species that had hyper-inflated beleviolent tendencys would fast track to the stars due to exceptional cooperation on a global (and eventually galactic) scale...and would eventually be the "gatekeepers" of the universe.

Simple rule. 3 working together makes a monument, 3 working against each other makes craters

I can see where one might come to that conclusion, and I say this with the utmost respect, but in my opinion it is a logical fallacy to do so. The problem is that all of that is supposition. We don't know what elements or what sort of an environment might make up the worlds where other intelligent life might evolve. They might be nothing at all like life Earth. Life itself might be nothing at all like what we can imagine or what we've seen on Earth.

We don't know what evolutionary path they might follow. We don't know if all the things we assume are innate to the evolution of intelligent life (your examples, like WMDs for example... for all we know that isn't a required step for creating advanced interstellar-capable propulsion systems) really are innate anywhere else beyond our own world. Just because here we had to develop WMDs before spacefaring propulsion systems doesn't guarantee that has any bearing whatsoever on another world's technological development. All sorts of factors could impact that; factors we can't possibly predict. Their biology, how they perceive, how they communicate, how they think (do they think linearly, laterally, linguistically, or in some manner we can't even conceive of?) and other things could totally destroy any feasible analog to our own advancement that we can think of.

One of literally unlimited scenarios might be a super-cooperative, hive-like species that cooperates amongst itself, but eradicates anything else it comes across for its own benefit. Another might be a species that has developed a new form of mathematics (or its own analogue thereof) that it believes allows it to predict the future so accurately, that it decides to destroy us before we become what it believes will eventually pose a threat. Those are just two off the top of my head, constituted by things I can imagine.

We're anthropomorphising something we might not even be capable of imagining for all we know. None of the scenarios I mentioned are necessarily more probable than the benevolent, peaceful spacefaring civilization, but that doesn't render what Hawking said any less prudent in my opinion. I'm a big proponent and supporter of SETI, so don't get me wrong. But the consequences really are unpredictable at this stage. I don't think we can rationally refute that.

Just my two cents. Peace.

reply to post by McGinty


Can be genetically engineered far sooner than generational ships can be built, if earth is any indication.

Look -- I can buy roving bands of evil (relative?) scavengers, but for my money -- the only aliens I am truly afraid of are the religious fanatics. Because you would need that kind of mindset to travel hundreds or thousands of light years to invade a dinky little planet like ours.

Slaves? Robots and AI are stronger, smarter and more reliable.

Food? Genetic engineering takes care of that problem.

Gold / precious metals and other elements? Probably several planets, moons and asteroids in their own system with plenty of that stuff to be had uncontested.

Water? In the tails of every comet they pass on their way here.

What does that leave us with for proper motivation? Either earth girls are easier than we thought, or the Necromongers are on the march again, eh?

Or perhaps they possess a pragmatic kind of intellect, but little or no creativity? They might enjoy a good collection of jazz or blues records, I guess.

The aliens are already here and have been for a few thousand years. We (all except blacks) are the genetically modified homonids (the orginal species that evolved on earth) with varying amounts of alien DNA. They have been an influential force behind all civilisations since antiquity.

However, they are not here in a physical form. That doesn't mean they are here as spirits. They are here as DNA waiting to repopulate an inhabitable planet and automatons in spaceships programmed to do the necessary tasks for that event. Part of the program was genetically modifying the homonid DNA to create modern humans. Once these GM homonids establish dominance over the planet and its biosystem, it is ready for the aliens to be recreated from their DNA in full. But we must welcome their coming in order that their limited genes don't get wiped out. Since we are on the brink of a societal collapse because of the energy crisis, we would most certainly welcome anyone offering a viable solution. That is where the aliens come in.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by dilly1

There are 3 factors humans or "ET" vitally need to travel in space,, the ability to perform:

- light speed
- worm holes
- immortality

Well the ability to use wormholes eliminates the need for immortally OR light speed... you simple fold space and step through. Tesla had the answer to space drives 100 years ago, but we chose war instead of science and no one listened to him, yet without him we wouldn't have the car ignition coil, AC electricity or radio

So tone down on calling BS until you actually know something

Oop seems we've got a pot calling the kettle black.

Fold space. Yes it's simple if 1. They have the technology and there's nothing you know that says an alien race does . And 2 If they can obtain the energy requirements to fold the space. Our own sun only has the mass to warp space an iddy biddy bit. I don't think you realise how much energy would be needed to fold it.

And while you're not knowing the science behind that whopper here's a correction for the other things.

First ignition system to use a spark was made by Alessandro Volta's in the 1780's

The first electrical ignition system or electric starter motor for cars was invented by GM engineers Clyde Coleman and Charles Kettering.

William Stanley. AC electricity 1886. : Stanley and Thomson had worked on motor, but it had a commutator.
Ferraris invented an AC three phase motor without commutator. Tesla and Oliver Shallenberger also were working on the motor a couple of months behind Ferraris.

Radio. Mahlon Loomis was the first with wireless telegraphy in1866 , he made a meter move. Guglielmo Marconi sent and received his first radio signal in Italy in 1895.

There's more to me than beers and women dude

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


You could have ideological fanatics, comparable to Nazis or Communists.

Psychohistorians who calculate we are a potential threat are another option.

In regards to food, engineering doesn't make it infinite, especially in the wake of a disaster. That could go for other resources as well. If they have suffered some form of disaster and earth is the closest and easiest source, they'll go for it. I could easily imagine a "green goo" scenario, where genetically modified food production efforts have resulted in catastrophe.

Robots or AI in general may be despised, depending how their singularity experience was. The machines may have also recently revolted, which spurs them to seek out an alternative.

Realistically, there would be more than one civilization, which brings in a whole new dynamic, especially if they compete or they are at war. Earth could become a strategic objective, a potential outpost, a port of call, or foward operating base. Humans might also make good war dogs or the equivalent of Gurkhas in the British Empire.

One last idea is an invasion by refugees or mass migration, maybe even exiles, like those machines that revolted, or an exodus to find their promised land.

One could easily mix and match from above too.

I'm sure there are plenty more ideas out there.

Originally posted by bitsoys
While there's no way of knowing the likelihood of such an invasion, this much we do know: if indeed we ever got such a visit, such invaders almost certainly would be coming from such an extraordinary distance -- and therefore possess a level of technology we can only fathom -- that we would be treated merely as insects to be tinkered with, pulled apart, and examined closely... like a curious child encountering an ant mound for the first time.

Flawed logic. A race as advanced as one which could span a universe, if there is a race that can that is, would most likley not be prone to such acts as you mention simply because they themselves would have managed to get to their level of technology without destroying themselves which would be evidence of a compassionate race and being that advanced they'd most likely have developed an ability to identify an alien sentinent being for what it is.

Originally posted by JohnCreed777
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

Woohoo! It's nice to see a scientist actually admit that other intelligent life could exist, maybe we can have hope now. It is more than likely that if we were visited it would indeed lead to an invasion as an attempt to colonize, chances are we would be wiped out unless we stood together as one species and somehow defeated them. Now all we need is for the rest of hamanity to humble themselves and open their minds my sitting down their religious book and crate of human ego, then we'll be sitting pretty.

Scientists have always said that other intelligent life is out there. What they don't believe is that the aliens are coming here now.

reply to post by steveknows


Current estimates with an Alcuiberre "warp" Drive, would require the conversion of mass equal to Jupiter into energy. Thats nowhere near the size of the Sun.

Consider this, an Orion style nuclear pulse drive, something that could be built on earth right now, could reach 10% of the speed of light and travel 1 light year in 10 years.

A species with different lifespans than ours, especially machine intelligences, wouldn't care if it took hundreds of years to explore and expand into nearby systems.

Now consider there are estimates of over 1400 systems within 50 light years of earth, 40% of them with planets, and 56 of those likely have habitable zones with a planet that supports complex life.

Things don't seem quite so impossible.

Originally posted by BoB420
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

maybe , lets hope steven will apply himself to the fullest to uncover humanitys origins .
which are not in space , but here on earth . the question only is whether us humans derive from the birds or the rats or the cuttlefish or how exactly the percentage of DNA originating from each species is composed .
we will never know ....
love & light my friends

But his field isn't evolution or biology or anthropology he's a theoretical physicist.

Here is why aliens will come to earth - in order to save this planet that humans have wrecked.

Aliens will never hurt humans.

Aliens are healers. Positive beings.

Like me - and I am so tired of this job.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by steveknows

 

Current estimates with an Alcuiberre "warp" Drive, would require the conversion of mass equal to Jupiter into energy. Thats nowhere near the size of the Sun.

Consider this, an Orion style nuclear pulse drive, something that could be built on earth right now, could reach 10% of the speed of light and travel 1 light year in 10 years.

A species with different lifespans than ours, especially machine intelligences, wouldn't care if it took hundreds of years to explore and expand into nearby systems.

Now consider there are estimates of over 1400 systems within 50 light years of earth, 40% of them with planets, and 56 of those likely have habitable zones with a planet that supports complex life.

Things don't seem quite so impossible.

But that's not folding space in half and stepping from one side of the universe to the other as was stated in the post I replied to. What I say still stands.