you guys are doomed, you cant shoot!

reply to post by k1k1to




Nice thread, and good advice!

But what makes you think none of us are training for shooting on the run or shooting at advancing targets? I learned to practice shooting under the stress of adrenalin from some Ranger trainees in Fort Walton Beach. They practice shooting with fatigued muscles, adrenalin, accelerated heartrate, etc. They work out and shoot combined. They also run the targets at them while they shoot, and they also combine the military's "challenge course" with shooting.

There was running, crawling, jumping, and then cover where you had to crouch and shoot, or lie and shoot, or stand and shoot. It was very cool.

I had never thought of it before I was invited on a couple of those shooting range experiences, and it was eye-opening a lot like yours! Now I always practice that way. I always at least get my heartrate up before shooting. I'll run or do pushups, and then shoot, even at an indoor range.

I don't live near there any longer, and I wish I could construct the challenge course here with the shooting obstacles. I might talk to some friends that have land. The discussion hasn't come up in awhile, but I bet some people would be interested in constructing one. Thanks for bringing it up again!

Thank you for your post OP as we pretty much got stationary shooting down, and skeet shooting you bring up a valid point about running or walking and shooting. Also the shooting in low light conditions. These are a few things we will have to practice. Again thanks for the post!

In an emp or such type major collapse you probably wont be defending against professionals.
A hunting rifle with a good scope and a blunderbuss (A Taurus "Judge" with 45 long colt and Winchester elite PDX1 .410) would be a fine choice IMHO.

Long range to scare them away and short range to run away.

Shouldn't need more accuracy that being able to drop a deer @ 100 yards or hit a moving body mass @ 50 feet.

Well assuming that you were in some sort of battle the good news is a moving target shooter is probably going to less accurate of a shot then you. Just think about the problems of accurately shooting when you are running. Not only is your mind trying to deal with your actual movement but there is the problem of lining your sights up while they are bouncing as you run. In any scenario of a moving target from hunting, to skeet/trap, to your r/c car target, most people cant lead a target properly. I am no expert marksman but after many year of hunting you'll see that is the main problem. People have flawed technique. The r/c car is certainly an interesting way to practice this as opposed to the typical clay pigeon/ rabbit method.

you're so right about this. i take my son and wife out to the range regularly in order to at least get them used to shooting and hitting what you're aiming at on a regular basis.

reply to post by k1k1to


Part of the problem is that, in some areas, shooting at moving targets upset's the liberal mindset at some ranges.
I wanted to have moving targets set up at the gun club range plus have stances in-between shots etc etc
The guy in charge suspended my membership saying that my shooting practices were not suitable to the range!

I do agree with you 100% that moving targets is the real test.
I did this in the armed forces, even with a LSW it's not easy to hit something at more than a walking speed from a range of over 30 yards...

Try not to worry too much, people have been going to war and moving around trying to kill and avoid being killed for a long time, yet some how, we always find a way to kill each other....

Now you can rest easy.....

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by WarJohn

 

If memory serves me, Our military does not give every member a full auto. They are now 3 shot burst and semi-auto select M-16 with one designated member carrying the heavy machine gun the SAW M-249!

Zindo

That's the US Marines only AFAIK, I think the army and rangers still have full-auto M4's...?

You want to really put it to the test try shooting balloons that have been attached to wooden stakes, last time I was out shooting we had them set up at various ranges and ended up shooting them with a rifle we had never shot with before, made for quite the challenge to wait for the wind to die down to a suitable level for the target to be as stationary as possible.

Gu nfight 30 shots exchanged in alley, no injuries.

Gunfight, 20-30 shots exchanged in restaurant, no injuries reported.

Gun Fight between robbers and cops. Two Dozen bullets exchanged, no injuries.

Shootout at bank between aggressive robbers and armored car personnel, no injuries reported.

There are lots and lots of more examples. Many of the examples involve police and/or gangs, and one can assume both have training or experience in shooting effectively.

Once the bullets start flying, it is apparently very difficult to hit anything! The world looks a lot different with bullets coming at you.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Gu nfight 30 shots exchanged in alley, no injuries.

Gunfight, 20-30 shots exchanged in restaurant, no injuries reported.

Gun Fight between robbers and cops. Two Dozen bullets exchanged, no injuries.

Shootout at bank between aggressive robbers and armored car personnel, no injuries reported.

There are lots and lots of more examples. Many of the examples involve police and/or gangs, and one can assume both have training or experience in shooting effectively.

Once the bullets start flying, it is apparently very difficult to hit anything! The world looks a lot different with bullets coming at you.

you are 100% right

aiming is taken to the next level when you are trying to survive/fight back/escape/hide/avoiding obstacles etc..

I would also suggest practicing weak-hand shooting. You never know when your strong hand will be injured and you would be surprised how crappy you shoot weak hand if you have never done it.


My .02¢

Silver

From what I know as a kid without any shooting experience and what ever is that combat in real life is way different than in the movies or the games.
Medieval warfare was hit and run, collapse with a squad of man, make some wounded and retreat to take a breath, drink water, and charge once again until one side would run away from battle.

There were no battles fought to death unless they had no chance to run and it was total murder and onslaught.
Medieval field battles would have 500 dead out of 50000 soldiers.

Now of days I think it is quite the same. Regular soldiers and people that are not trained to face true horror and combat will not keep on fighting continuously. People will hit and run, hit and run, hit and run.
Shoot, retreat, shoot, retreat, shoot, advance, shoot, advance. It rarely is a hours long fire fight.
Unless it's trained soldiers laying suppresive fire for several minutes. It's probably the longest continuously moment of fire in a battle.

Now I can imagine that this would be quite different in a full scale modern war where there is constant battle but let's say that a medium scale war would probably not be as we picture it. The winning force will advance and the losing force will retreat - they will not fight to death if there isn't any immortal reason to fight to death.

I can only imagine how it would be without any combat experience and my imagination is very off probably.

Originally posted by k1k1to

Originally posted by satron
If you can't then why would they be anymore successful?

, or just switch to a shot gun.

never fails

with a duck bill on it....then its a whole new world ...like 12/10 hits if your not careful ...up to you where the other 2 came from....so watch out

anybody who wants to can participate in an Army National Guard event called "Guard For A Day"...They put the Miles gear on you, you know the kind with sensors that beep when you get shot....give it a whirl,, see just how easy it is to die in combat...then adjust the mind...

then if TSHTF stay away from people altogether or depend on being in a group of size for safety...People in general and us Americans particularly tend to watch movies and identify with the characters like Rambo and have a little "bromance" with the Idea of kicking A$$ and taking names...staying anonymous and out of site will be the real ticket to survival...

Going " Red Dawn" against an Army well trained, armed enough to invade this country will get you killed quicker than any virus known to mankind. If bullets are coming in on ya it won't be a game or a movie, I promise

Most gun owners dont practice enough. And of those who do they often limit themselves to punching holes in paper.

You really have to get involved in events like IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, 3-gun, Cowboy Action at a bare minimum to develop as an all-around marksman. Punching holes in paper, even offhand at 200 yards with irons, is very limiting.

Though often cost-prohibitive anyone who shoots, especially folks who carry, should take some force on force training. There are reputable courses all over the country. Since they often are expensive pay attention, ask all kinds of questions and practice practice practice.

I've gone so far as to set up my own shoot house with cables and moving targets and stuff. It's small and I have to set it up to be situation specific but it's great and a whole lot of fun when friends come over with stacked entries and clearing and stuff like that. So much fun.

Paintball and airsoft of course. Dont need somebody getting shot.

AirSoft or paintball are very effective tools to put you into the physiological and psychological conditions needed to improve accuracy under stress. I would recommend using airsoft or paintball guns that are nearly identical in their design and feel to the guns you would likely use in an actual situation. However you will build muscle memory doing so. You will not experience empty mags / slide-lock, or weapon failures in the same way. That can and will be deadly.

Regardless training in realistic situations is vital to development of these needed skills.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


Unless you know that in the back of your mind you won't die when you get shot. It's different.
Paintball stress is nothing similar to bullets penetrating your intestines stress.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN
AirSoft or paintball are very effective tools to put you into the physiological and psychological conditions needed to improve accuracy under stress. I would recommend using airsoft or paintball guns that are nearly identical in their design and feel to the guns you would likely use in an actual situation. However you will build muscle memory doing so. You will not experience empty mags / slide-lock, or weapon failures in the same way. That can and will be deadly.

Regardless training in realistic situations is vital to development of these needed skills.

I agree that paintball, and airsoft doesnt compare when it comes to the stress and conditions of shooting a real gun that needs to be maintained and taken apart to be cleaned, it also jams, not to mention the chore of reloading every bullet into the magazine...

however paintball, but more specifically airsoft shooting is a great/inexpensive way to go, and it really gives you the feel maybe about 85% of what it feels like to use a real gun, under somewhat stressfull conditions. im guessing most of you dont have hundreds of acres worth of property and several thousand rounds to go and practice with real guns, however if you have a decent backyard and happen to own some airsoft, or bb guns...PUT THEM TO USE...its all about muscle memory and working on a stance that works for you

Originally posted by novuslibertas
reply to post by SWCCFAN

 

Unless you know that in the back of your mind you won't die when you get shot. It's different.
Paintball stress is nothing similar to bullets penetrating your intestines stress.

Naked paintball hurts like a bitch.