reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
If I knew I wouldn't be asking.
Here's what I am thinking, so you can tell me where I went wrong: The real problem we have is un- and under-employment. As long as people are making
a living wage, there is really no problem. You work your 40 hours a week, pay your bills for the things you want, hopefully with a little left over
for having a little fun. You retire after a certain time and live the rest of your life in the house you bought with the money you saved through
investment.
For a lot of people, that is the American Dream.
But when that living wage stagnates as prices rise, as layoffs increase, and as available jobs become few and miserly, that becomes an impossibility
to manage. Homes are foreclosed on when you can't pay the payments, and bare essentials like food become hard to get, never mind anything to
enjoy.
Is that not the problem? If not, what is?
TheRedneck
OWS Protestor Shows How It Really Works, page 2
privacy
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 09:33 PM by burdman30ott6
reply to post by TheRedneck
You're attempting to apply a logical goal and a logical thought process to an illogical action being carried out by emotion driven individuals who sorely lack any logical thought process. The entire OWS movement is centered around the need to have something to piss and whine about and having a group that shares that motivation so you feel like you're a part of something.
You're attempting to apply a logical goal and a logical thought process to an illogical action being carried out by emotion driven individuals who sorely lack any logical thought process. The entire OWS movement is centered around the need to have something to piss and whine about and having a group that shares that motivation so you feel like you're a part of something.
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 09:49 PM by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by TheRedneck
The biggest motivator for them is the fact that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer, and the middle class is sharply declining... It is a sad but real circumstance of an out of control and corrupt government, that has in many ways enabled all of this to happen.... But....
Jobs aren't simply declining, they are leaving the country at a staggering rate, and aren't going to come back.
Those same rich elite have invested outside of the USA, because they can't remain competitive while doing business and manufacturing here, at the global levels.... Can't compete with the Chinese, or India and others, so they do what they can to survive.... In this process the wealth of the USA is slowly redistributed to these other nations... You have an American people living in a declining and collapsing economy as a result, and a government that is deeper in debt and deficit than ever before.
The USA isn't business friendly anymore, and hasn't been for a long time... It can only get worse, along with the widening gap of "economic inequality"...
Conditions were already ripe for this, and so the movement was born, it has been exploited for other agendas and objectives.... And will accomplish nothing in regard to confronting the actual problems.
The government is where all of the problems are, and where the focus should be.... We can't tax, spend and grow government out of this mess, and if the REAL problems aren't addressed economic decline will only continue and even accelerate toward collapse... It really is nearly too late to stop it now.
But hey we always have hope for real "change"
The biggest motivator for them is the fact that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer, and the middle class is sharply declining... It is a sad but real circumstance of an out of control and corrupt government, that has in many ways enabled all of this to happen.... But....
Jobs aren't simply declining, they are leaving the country at a staggering rate, and aren't going to come back.
Those same rich elite have invested outside of the USA, because they can't remain competitive while doing business and manufacturing here, at the global levels.... Can't compete with the Chinese, or India and others, so they do what they can to survive.... In this process the wealth of the USA is slowly redistributed to these other nations... You have an American people living in a declining and collapsing economy as a result, and a government that is deeper in debt and deficit than ever before.
The USA isn't business friendly anymore, and hasn't been for a long time... It can only get worse, along with the widening gap of "economic inequality"...
Conditions were already ripe for this, and so the movement was born, it has been exploited for other agendas and objectives.... And will accomplish nothing in regard to confronting the actual problems.
The government is where all of the problems are, and where the focus should be.... We can't tax, spend and grow government out of this mess, and if the REAL problems aren't addressed economic decline will only continue and even accelerate toward collapse... It really is nearly too late to stop it now.
But hey we always have hope for real "change"
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 10:59 PM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TheRedneck
Yep.. pretty much. That is exactly what they are protesting against (that and the corruption and mismanagement that caused that situation to exist)
Yep.. pretty much. That is exactly what they are protesting against (that and the corruption and mismanagement that caused that situation to exist)
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 11:01 PM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by burdman30ott6
Oh yeah.. because there isn't anything to really be upset about
This mod's in here blowin' my mind, moderating a site with "deny ignorance" as a byline.
Oh yeah.. because there isn't anything to really be upset about
This mod's in here blowin' my mind, moderating a site with "deny ignorance" as a byline.
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 11:07 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
OK, so why is one person finding a way out of that situation a bad thing?
Think about it like this: a group of people are lost in an Amazon jungle. They all walk around trying to find a way out. One guy manages to find a way out, and turns and yells back to everyone that he has found it. Do the others follow him? Or do they throw rocks at him?
If they are OWS, apparently they throw rocks.
Not everything is a conspiracy. it is just possible that this woman actually got a job offer because she asked for a job. Now, allowing for that possibility, which makes more sense? For other protesters to try it themselves, or for other protesters to now look on her as some sort of enemy or traitor?
Think about that. She found a way out that everyone is trying to find, and everyone else is angry with her for it. What kind of warped illogical pseudo-thinking is this?
TheRedneck
OK, so why is one person finding a way out of that situation a bad thing?
Think about it like this: a group of people are lost in an Amazon jungle. They all walk around trying to find a way out. One guy manages to find a way out, and turns and yells back to everyone that he has found it. Do the others follow him? Or do they throw rocks at him?
If they are OWS, apparently they throw rocks.
Not everything is a conspiracy. it is just possible that this woman actually got a job offer because she asked for a job. Now, allowing for that possibility, which makes more sense? For other protesters to try it themselves, or for other protesters to now look on her as some sort of enemy or traitor?
Think about that. She found a way out that everyone is trying to find, and everyone else is angry with her for it. What kind of warped illogical pseudo-thinking is this?
TheRedneck
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 11:13 PM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TheRedneck
Finding a way out isn't a bad thing. Allowing yourself to be used as a tool, to mock something you once stood for, is. Pretty low. Also, working for the very people whose corruption you have been protesting, shows there's no pride.
That said, I don't blame her for taking the job, I do blame her for allowing herself to be paraded around by her new puppet masters to insult the movement she once backed.
Finding a way out isn't a bad thing. Allowing yourself to be used as a tool, to mock something you once stood for, is. Pretty low. Also, working for the very people whose corruption you have been protesting, shows there's no pride.
That said, I don't blame her for taking the job, I do blame her for allowing herself to be paraded around by her new puppet masters to insult the movement she once backed.
edit on 11-12-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 11:18 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by Fractured.Facade
Because the tightest regulations and highest taxation rates in the world are right here in the good old USA. They have to make a choice: leave or go broke. Who put these taxes and restrictions into place? The Federal government.
And who decides when and how much the government is going to borrow? The Federal government.
Right on, and that's what made this story interesting to me. It shows that the middle class aren't the only ones who care. The "1%" actually care too, but what can they do when every move is taxed and regulated and sued over? All they can do is try to hedge against becoming broke themselves, which is what every single OWS protester and every single middle class family would do under the same circumstances. Some guy working on Wall Street made a gesture toward someone obviously down on their luck. Does it make him a saint? No. it does make him look a little more human to me though.
I thought Obama was talking about pocket change. I sure don't see much folding money lately.
Great post.
TheRedneck
Jobs aren't simply declining, they are leaving the country at a staggering rate, and aren't going to come back.
Those same rich elite have invested outside of the USA, because they can't remain competitive while doing business and manufacturing here, at the global levels.... Can't compete with the Chinese, or India and others, so they do what they can to survive.... In this process the wealth of the USA is slowly redistributed to these other nations...
Because the tightest regulations and highest taxation rates in the world are right here in the good old USA. They have to make a choice: leave or go broke. Who put these taxes and restrictions into place? The Federal government.
You have an American people living in a declining and collapsing economy as a result, and a government that is deeper in debt and deficit than ever before.
And who decides when and how much the government is going to borrow? The Federal government.
The government is where all of the problems are, and where the focus should be.... We can't tax, spend and grow government out of this mess, and if the REAL problems aren't addressed economic decline will only continue and even accelerate toward collapse... It really is nearly too late to stop it now.
Right on, and that's what made this story interesting to me. It shows that the middle class aren't the only ones who care. The "1%" actually care too, but what can they do when every move is taxed and regulated and sued over? All they can do is try to hedge against becoming broke themselves, which is what every single OWS protester and every single middle class family would do under the same circumstances. Some guy working on Wall Street made a gesture toward someone obviously down on their luck. Does it make him a saint? No. it does make him look a little more human to me though.
But hey we always have hope for real "change"
I thought Obama was talking about pocket change. I sure don't see much folding money lately.
Great post.
TheRedneck
reply posted on 11-12-2011 @ 11:30 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
Ummm, wait a minute. Here I thought I had this whole protest thing down pat, and you just confused me again.
This was a human interest story that aired one showing on CNN that I saw... wasn't even a long segment. When I went to find it today, I had to do about 4 searches on CNN's website to find it. I was actually starting to doubt my memory. It never hit ATS until I found time to start this thread. I have not heard it mentioned anywhere else. This is a parade?
Even if she was touting the fact she got a job, isn't that like the guy in my example yelling back that he had found a way out? Would it have been better had she just slunk into her corporate office without a care for her fellow protesters?
OK, so who do you go to when you're looking for a job? I typically go to places that have a lot of money so they can pay me. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think people who can barely make ends meet themselves are going to pay me a salary. Of course, I've never tried to buy fresh bread in a mechanic shop before either...
This is what keeps me scratching my head: you want a job to make money, but you don't want a job working for people who have money, because they make more money than you do.
TheRedneck
Ummm, wait a minute. Here I thought I had this whole protest thing down pat, and you just confused me again.
This was a human interest story that aired one showing on CNN that I saw... wasn't even a long segment. When I went to find it today, I had to do about 4 searches on CNN's website to find it. I was actually starting to doubt my memory. It never hit ATS until I found time to start this thread. I have not heard it mentioned anywhere else. This is a parade?
Even if she was touting the fact she got a job, isn't that like the guy in my example yelling back that he had found a way out? Would it have been better had she just slunk into her corporate office without a care for her fellow protesters?
Also, working for the very people whose corruption you have been protesting, shows there's no pride.
OK, so who do you go to when you're looking for a job? I typically go to places that have a lot of money so they can pay me. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think people who can barely make ends meet themselves are going to pay me a salary. Of course, I've never tried to buy fresh bread in a mechanic shop before either...
This is what keeps me scratching my head: you want a job to make money, but you don't want a job working for people who have money, because they make more money than you do.
TheRedneck
reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 04:00 AM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TheRedneck
Wait, you have seen it, I have seen it, it's on the internet, how can you try to downplay it as just a little special interest story? It has the same "circulation" as any other news story in the US.
dem underground
abc
cnn correspondent
cnn
Glen Beck
and about a million smaller sources. Google it and it's the first dozen or so stories.
She came on CNN one of the MSM outlets to smear the protesters that she once stood with. Is that something you want in a worker? That will just sell out her beliefs? Well maybe on Wall St they do, but nowhere else. She stands very weird with what I assume is her new boss in that vid and you can see the discomfort. She knows she is being used.
She was just another tool in the propaganda against Occupy. Did she say there are still problems out there and people like me with degrees and no work? No she said protesters were talking bad about her and etc.Which makes me doubt her involvement at all honestly. Not because I can't see protesters doing that, but because she should know better than to think that represents or justifies what she is doing.
As for the last sentence, no, it has nothing to do with her having a job, even though it is completely hypocritical, it is about allowing herself to be used. Also, the protest isn't just wall street in general, it is about the corruption that goes on between the big businesses that trade on the market and the government. The movement is called Occupy not Occupy Wall Street. It started as Occupy in Malaysia. The fact that the first movement in the U.S. was an occupancy of Wall St. has a lot of people (even some of the protesters and allll of the haters) thinking this protest starts and ends at Wall St. Wall St. is a symbol. Foreclosed homes are a symbol, Tents in the park are a symbol (look into past American protests involving tent cities, happened all the time).
Wait, you have seen it, I have seen it, it's on the internet, how can you try to downplay it as just a little special interest story? It has the same "circulation" as any other news story in the US.
dem underground
abc
cnn correspondent
cnn
Glen Beck
and about a million smaller sources. Google it and it's the first dozen or so stories.
She came on CNN one of the MSM outlets to smear the protesters that she once stood with. Is that something you want in a worker? That will just sell out her beliefs? Well maybe on Wall St they do, but nowhere else. She stands very weird with what I assume is her new boss in that vid and you can see the discomfort. She knows she is being used.
She was just another tool in the propaganda against Occupy. Did she say there are still problems out there and people like me with degrees and no work? No she said protesters were talking bad about her and etc.Which makes me doubt her involvement at all honestly. Not because I can't see protesters doing that, but because she should know better than to think that represents or justifies what she is doing.
As for the last sentence, no, it has nothing to do with her having a job, even though it is completely hypocritical, it is about allowing herself to be used. Also, the protest isn't just wall street in general, it is about the corruption that goes on between the big businesses that trade on the market and the government. The movement is called Occupy not Occupy Wall Street. It started as Occupy in Malaysia. The fact that the first movement in the U.S. was an occupancy of Wall St. has a lot of people (even some of the protesters and allll of the haters) thinking this protest starts and ends at Wall St. Wall St. is a symbol. Foreclosed homes are a symbol, Tents in the park are a symbol (look into past American protests involving tent cities, happened all the time).
edit on 12-12-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 04:26 AM by GogoVicMorrow
She only attended the protest for 15 days.
link
My Fox New York reports on the “down-on-her-luck” occupier who spent 15 days making sandwiches for fellow Occupiers in Zuccotti Park only to be rewarded with a job at a Financial District investment firm thanks to a passer-by who grabbed her resume.
“She was ranting about Wall Street, and now she’s working on Wall Street. Banks are not so bad. I hope we have opened her eyes,” CEO Thomas Belesis told the Post of Postert, who he believes will be a great asset.
link
reply posted on 12-12-2011 @ 06:39 AM by TheRedneck
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
Let's back up a minute...
and then
OK, so I get that it's over the lack of jobs. but then you say this:
Now which is it?
You know, this really is opening my eyes. I have been a partial supporter of the OWS movement, in that I have consistently stated they have a right to protest and its all over people who are in pain looking for relief. But when I show how it is possible, even in this economy, to pull oneself out of that quagmire of unemployment and I am told that doing so is somehow abandoning one's beliefs... well, all I can say is, that's some warped beliefs they got going on there.
You have three choices in the US: start doing business for yourself; work for someone who is doing business for themselves; live off charity and government support. That's it. No one gets a free ride. Everyone must contribute to get ahead, even the people sitting on Wall Street.
Is it completely fair? Nope, life isn't fair. It's not fair that one kid can chase a ball out into a street and there be no traffic, and another can do the same thing and be killed. It's not fair that one man gets cancer and another doesn't. But it's fact. No one can change that vagrancy of life. What one can change is their situation. Maybe someone can't get a job within days like their neighbor does... fine, life's not fair, so keep trying. Crying about it does nothing, except make one a crybaby.
I think I am starting to get it, to understand what the protests are about. They are starting to remind me of a day-care center. "He got a job; it's not fair... WAAAAAAAA!!!!" Sorry, but I can't abide whining, and my opinion of the OWS movement just took a major turn for the worse. Here's a whine for you: I am attending college full time on a scholarship from being laid off, working three part time jobs, working on the side for myself what I can, and raising my family all at the same time. Oh, did I mention the stack of medical bills from earlier this year when my wife had a stroke and we had no insurance? But I'm not protesting. I'm working, planning, scheming if you will, on ways to improve myself and succeed in the new job market I find myself in.
Why can't OWS do the same? Oh, that's right, it would be traiterous. Yeah. Call me a traitor too then, because I plan on making a living instead of standing around dancing to a bunch of wanna-be hippies.
Thanks for opening my eyes. Now I have to get to one of those jobs and finish up some finals... all while taking care of some financial business over my self-employment, schedule another job, and pick up a few things for the family while I'm out. No time to stand around and cry about how wrong it is I can't dance.
TheRedneck
Let's back up a minute...
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
But when that living wage stagnates as prices rise, as layoffs increase, and as available jobs become few and miserly, that becomes an impossibility to manage. Homes are foreclosed on when you can't pay the payments, and bare essentials like food become hard to get, never mind anything to enjoy.
Is that not the problem? If not, what is?
TheRedneck
and then
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TheRedneck
Yep.. pretty much. That is exactly what they are protesting against (that and the corruption and mismanagement that caused that situation to exist)
OK, so I get that it's over the lack of jobs. but then you say this:
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TheRedneck
As for the last sentence, no, it has nothing to do with her having a job, even though it is completely hypocritical, it is about allowing herself to be used. Also, the protest isn't just wall street in general, it is about the corruption that goes on between the big businesses that trade on the market and the government.
Now which is it?
You know, this really is opening my eyes. I have been a partial supporter of the OWS movement, in that I have consistently stated they have a right to protest and its all over people who are in pain looking for relief. But when I show how it is possible, even in this economy, to pull oneself out of that quagmire of unemployment and I am told that doing so is somehow abandoning one's beliefs... well, all I can say is, that's some warped beliefs they got going on there.
You have three choices in the US: start doing business for yourself; work for someone who is doing business for themselves; live off charity and government support. That's it. No one gets a free ride. Everyone must contribute to get ahead, even the people sitting on Wall Street.
Is it completely fair? Nope, life isn't fair. It's not fair that one kid can chase a ball out into a street and there be no traffic, and another can do the same thing and be killed. It's not fair that one man gets cancer and another doesn't. But it's fact. No one can change that vagrancy of life. What one can change is their situation. Maybe someone can't get a job within days like their neighbor does... fine, life's not fair, so keep trying. Crying about it does nothing, except make one a crybaby.
I think I am starting to get it, to understand what the protests are about. They are starting to remind me of a day-care center. "He got a job; it's not fair... WAAAAAAAA!!!!" Sorry, but I can't abide whining, and my opinion of the OWS movement just took a major turn for the worse. Here's a whine for you: I am attending college full time on a scholarship from being laid off, working three part time jobs, working on the side for myself what I can, and raising my family all at the same time. Oh, did I mention the stack of medical bills from earlier this year when my wife had a stroke and we had no insurance? But I'm not protesting. I'm working, planning, scheming if you will, on ways to improve myself and succeed in the new job market I find myself in.
Why can't OWS do the same? Oh, that's right, it would be traiterous. Yeah. Call me a traitor too then, because I plan on making a living instead of standing around dancing to a bunch of wanna-be hippies.
Thanks for opening my eyes. Now I have to get to one of those jobs and finish up some finals... all while taking care of some financial business over my self-employment, schedule another job, and pick up a few things for the family while I'm out. No time to stand around and cry about how wrong it is I can't dance.
TheRedneck
reply posted on 14-12-2011 @ 08:13 PM by MemoryShock
reply to post by TheRedneck
The protest was a party. I was dumbfounded especially after reflecting on my previous post in this thread...
We had a truck blasting jams the entire way, the port was shut down before we even got there and there were fireworks...
...and a beach ball.
Don't get me wrong, there was a very serious tone to the experience but the overwhelming theme assumed victory...and I have to say that I love that in a protest...
The protest was a party. I was dumbfounded especially after reflecting on my previous post in this thread...
We had a truck blasting jams the entire way, the port was shut down before we even got there and there were fireworks...
...and a beach ball.
Don't get me wrong, there was a very serious tone to the experience but the overwhelming theme assumed victory...and I have to say that I love that in a protest...
edit on Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:16:22 -0600 by MemoryShock because: Addendum.
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