Americans not immune if they act against U.S: CIA

yes this is for real if your a US citizen and pick up arms against the US you are now fair game this is from a msnbc article back with the link. the link www.msnbc.msn.com... from the link

American citizens are not immune from being treated like an enemy if they take up arms against the United States, the CIA general counsel said on Thursday.

CIA General Counsel Stephen Preston was responding to a question at an American Bar Association national security conference about the killing of Americans overseas without presenting evidence of wrongdoing.

note the date updated 12/1/2011 6:52:49 PM ET know what the Senate did on that day? Does S1867 ring a bell or HR 1540 Now I am all for "when a nation is at war do all you can do to protect it" This does not mean throw its laws out the window! There is still due process yea I know some of you say well not if your fighting for the enemy , does this mean that your not protected by the Law when the Law says you are ? S1867 overturns the law giving the US gov green light to do what they have done, not lawfully, nor legally, or by, the word of law, but by executing a US citizen in a foreign land by saying we can and did this attitude seems to be wide spread

Preston said he would not discuss Awlaki or any specific operations.

"I will make this observation that citizenship does not confer immunity on one who takes up arms against his own country. It didn't in World War Two when there were American citizens who joined the Nazi army and it doesn't today," Preston said.

no they got to have a trial and were found guilty

Jeh Johnson, Defense Department general counsel, said he echoed Preston's comments "in terms of those who are combatants, part of the congressionally declared enemy, who also happen to be U.S. citizens."

It S 1867 and HR 1540 have not been signed by the POTUS yet, just because Congress votes so, does not make it law. and if you do not know they are the same ones that say the USA is Battlefield.

reply to post by bekod


Huge leap in logic here. It said that they were not "Immune", where does it say no trial? If they are captured I am sure they will get one. But in the middle of fights I dont think intentionally missing your enemies is very smart.

reply to post by bekod


This is tantermount to a declaration of war against US citizens.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by bekod

 

This is tantermount to a declaration of war against US citizens.

Even bigger leap in logic. In fact, its its the other way around. This was about people joining the enemy to wage war against the US.

What the hell people? Why are you intentionally misreading what they are saying?

reply to post by TsukiLunar


The law allows them to imprison people accused of terrorism without trial for an unlimited amount of time. Saying that it applies to U.S. Citizens is bad. These bills do not speak of somebody who has been tried and convicted, and it speaks of holding someone indefinitely; basically, it means that a U.S. citizen can be held as an enemy combatant without trial and for an unlimited period simply because there is suspicion that they are a terrorist.

Notice that I did not say such things could happen because they were proven terrorists; these things could happen simply because they are accused. And, as we've seen over and over, the evidence can be as flimsy as paper when people are accused.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

Notice that I did not say such things could happen because they were proven terrorists; these things could happen simply because they are accused. And, as we've seen over and over, the evidence can be as flimsy as paper when people are accused.

No, you are talking about that Bill that everyone is getting so worked up about.

Did it pass while i wasnt looking?

Besides, this isnt about that bill any way.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck
no this part is no longer valid

The law allows them to imprison people accused of terrorism without trial for an unlimited amount of time

the sec now reads , something like this "until the war or hostility's have ended by the determination of the US or its allies" from my recalling it will look for it Sub Sec D 1031 1032 of S1867

Well of course we aren't immune. It's called treason, espionage, domestic terrorism ;P

Did you forget about people like the Rosenburgs? They were executed for being spies

Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg (Born Evan Adintori) (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) and Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) were American communists who were convicted and executed in 1953 for conspiracy to commit espionage during a time of war. The charges related to their passing information about the atomic bomb to the Soviet Union. This was the first execution of civilians for espionage in United States history.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...



This is really nothing new.

reply to post by TsukiLunar
oh one that fails to read what is put in front of them from the link

He said it was not feasible to take decisions made on enemy combatants to courts each time.

"Courts are not equipped to make those types of decisions which very often are based moment-by-moment on an intelligence picture that constantly evolves," Johnson said.

this is to say yea he is a US citizen why is there can not say but the group he was seen with .. take him out . later oh did you hear he was a aid worker giving aid , yea well he is still a combatant for giving aid in the first place. no judge no jury just hear say, is all that is needed

reply to post by bekod


What is the definition of "terrorism" when it comes to the law?

and all of you , thank you for responding have missed this from the opening post

Americans overseas without presenting evidence of wrongdoing.

so if there is no evidence why be a target? will continue night night all or good morning

al-awlaki was a cleric and did not "take up arms".

They can basically murder anyone without a trial.

reply to post by mnmcandiez


I agree with you. My only concerns would be a situation where a mistake occured, or even false
accusations. Overall, I can see how this applies to those who beyond a reasonable doubt wish to
harm their fellow American Citizens physically. Yet intend to use their own Citizenship to snake
through the laws and use them to their own advantage. Personally, I think this law should be expanded
to include those who wish to cause financial harm to American citizens as well. As there are Many
Citizens who fall into that catagory as traitors right here at home.

All this # that the USA is getting now has already been passed in Australia like 8 years ago. Any Australian can be seen as a threat with ASIO kidnapping anyone they deem worthy and keeping them in indefenite torture detainment, until they provide information. Even then, they can still hold them 'hostage' without anyone knowing

Originally posted by theovermensch
al-awlaki was a cleric and did not "take up arms".

They can basically murder anyone without a trial.

Yes, he was a real sweetheart.

Just a humble cleric, who was not an active member and leader of a known terrorist organization, and had never counselled anyone to kill American soldiers, and had certainly not taken part in any plots to blow up airplanes bound for the USA.

Prince of a fellow he was...

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by theovermensch
al-awlaki was a cleric and did not "take up arms".

They can basically murder anyone without a trial.

Yes, he was a real sweetheart.

Just a humble cleric, who was not an active member and leader of a known terrorist organization, and had never counselled anyone to kill American soldiers, and had certainly not taken part in any plots to blow up airplanes bound for the USA.

Prince of a fellow he was...

I think that is debatable. There are links with the CIA.
Im not saying he was a sweetheart but he had no trial. No chance to defend himself.
It sets a worrisome precident if you ask me.
Not only can the US government detain people without trial,they can also kill them.

I have been aware of this since the Patriot Act, it certainly looks like things are getting worse.

God Bless America!

reply to post by bekod

Jeh Johnson, Defense Department general counsel, said he echoed Preston's comments "in terms of those who are combatants, part of the congressionally declared enemy, who also happen to be U.S. citizens."

Bro that right there is pretty damned scary. Emphasis on "part of the congressionally declared enemy, who happens to be U.S. citizens".

That right there makes it sound like they have declared war on the american people themselves.

Everyone who were arrested during WWII for actions against the US were , Indicted by a Grand Jury, Arrested under Warrant, and Tried in Open Court, that is 100%

The lies and double -speak of our Government today is no better than North Korea.

Remember American Citizen

It was NOT the Citizen that failed the government, it was the Government which failed the Citizen.

Anyone who actively or inactively supports or defends the Governmental decision to suspend our Constitutional Protections

Are an Enemy of

We the People of the United States.

Our tradition of the treatment of Traitors is well known

This was their choice,

NOT OURS.

reply to post by mobiusmale


You don’t know any of the charges against him, all you are doing is regurgitating what the MSM has told you.

No matter what

NO MATER WHAT

An American Citizen is due their day in Court.

NO MATTER WHAT !