first it was the forest service, now it's homeland security.

here is the set up.
i own a 40 acre chunk of new mexico.
i have an easement through a ranch, about 7 miles to the end of the road.the only thing there is the gate onto my property.
one side is the ranch, 2 sides are forest service property, and the last side is a wilderness area.
a few years ago i came home to a cut lock and an open gate.
i entered my property and found a forest service ranger stuck in the mud on my property.
he had kicked in the door of my shed and had my come-a-long in his hand.
i approached him with sidearm in hand.
after an argument i made him leave his vehicle and get off my property.
i told him to come back in the morning with his supervisor and i'd let them tow the treuck.
after this happened, i asked the supervisor why his employee would tresspass and risk being shot?
answer, they have easement through my property to the old road that winds about 5 miles up the mountain to an old mine.
the hell they do, nobody has any easment through my land.
so, i haven't heard a thing till yesterday.
i received a letter with a homeland security letterhead.
they are claiming that they now have easement across my property.
bull, they can't just invent an easement can they?
sorry, but i have no way to scan the letter, if i head to town in a couple of days i'll copy it at kinkos and send it to my e-mail so i can post it.
i'm stumpted, what could be in or near that old mine that would interest homeland security?
what could they possibly need access too?
the only thing i've ever found inside the mine is some pretty green flourite crystals which are semi-common in the area.
any ideas? i'm planning on fighting them over this, with lawyers if nessessary, or weapons.
ain't no way i'm giving up my privacy.
i called the rancher who owns the property i crossed, and he said he never gave them access across his ranch, i'm meeting him tomarrow, and will add what he tells me.

reply to post by rubbertramp


They will take what they wish and decide later whether or not to blow you out of the water.
- paraphrased from Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Good luck.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Ask them politely for written documentation of the easement they claim. Go to the local agency which stores such records and compare whatever documentation they send to what is on record at the agency.

If there is a discrepancy, file a civil suit against them and see your local DA about bringing criminal charges for falsification of official documents, trespass, and anything else you or a good lawyer can think of. All calmly and respectfully of course.

It might be worth a shot to try to apply any local anti-bullying laws, too.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

They will take what they wish and decide later whether or not to blow you out of the water.
- paraphrased from Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Good luck.

yea, i know, that is what i'm worried about.
it's like a perfect ruby ridge type set up if they want it.
i have one friend who lives in the second cabin, but he has 2 kids and might bail.
a few other friends might come stay with me just in case.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Ask them politely for written documentation of the easement they claim. Go to the local agency which stores such records and compare whatever documentation they send to what is on record at the agency.

If there is a discrepancy, file a civil suit against them and see your local DA about bringing criminal charges for falsification of official documents, trespass, and anything else you or a good lawyer can think of. All calmly and respectfully of course.

It might be worth a shot to try to apply any local anti-bullying laws, too.

thanx for the tips.
i bought the property off the rancher i mentioned and know there is no other easement on record. there never has been, i checked into all that when i bought the place.

Do you have utilities? Power, cable, phone or gas? Very few americans realize having any of these effectively does away with our rights of "private property". I spent a lot of years avoiding fights with people while working for one of those industries. And no less than a few hundred times in 5 states over a 15 year period have had local police escort me onto property. Although I/we weren't there for suspect reasons like HS.

I'm no lawyer, but in my experience the government does what they want to do. If you have the resources to fight them, great, and I wish you the very best of luck.

With that said, putting the practical aside, I would fight them too. At some point we must come together and take our country back or this type of thing will continue and only get worse.

I'm curious what the charges would be if you went onto government (our) land and did the things he did, but to a ranger station. I'll bet there would be at least one felony charge. Did they offer restitution for the damage he did?

Originally posted by ludshed
Do you have utilities? Power, cable, phone or gas? Very few americans realize having any of these effectively does away with our rights of "private property". I spent a lot of years avoiding fights with people while working for one of those industries. And no less than a few hundred times in 5 states over a 15 year period have had local police escort me onto property. Although I/we weren't there for suspect reasons like HS.

nothing, i not only off the grid, i'm 14 miles off the grid.

Originally posted by DragonTattooz
I'm no lawyer, but in my experience the government does what they want to do. If you have the resources to fight them, great, and I wish you the very best of luck.

With that said, putting the practical aside, I would fight them too. At some point we must come together and take our country back or this type of thing will continue and only get worse.

I'm curious what the charges would be if you went onto government (our) land and did the things he did, but to a ranger station. I'll bet there would be at least one felony charge. Did they offer restitution for the damage he did?

i never asked for anything. never even thought about it to be honest.
i'd had similar trouble when i still owned my montana property.
iwas way up on the ridge of a mountain, there was the f.s. road that went around my property and further up the mountain.
when the mud was really bad it was easier to cut through my property than take the road.
caught a forest service guy who cut the lock on my lower gate just to make his life easier.

actually had this argument recently...

quickly go to the courthouse and get copies of your original filing with the county...

The reason all easements are listed on the deed of sale ...


if its not on there... its not there... they have to pay and file paperwork... get it quickly before they alter the document... then go to the county attorneys and request help.... it is there issue...


(Note to the person reading this... tell the chief regardless of the deal cut I got her on tape ... ) (they know who they are...)

My paranoid moment is over... there is no law citing imminent domain with out filing..... ... the idiots need to plan better before they engage in operations...

I wouldnt be mad at you if I was the DoHS I would be mad at the agent and his boss... sounds like montana coastal defense batteries.....

The idiot supervisor and his employee is doing nothing but angering people whose help they need... I bet you even money op if they asked because they where tracking drug dealers do you mind if we kept it quiet and say give you 500 dollars you would have pocketed the money and said "I know nothing..."

idiots.. the gestapo low levels need to actually read up on the agency they are modelling... the gestapo at its height of power used subtlety and kindness... mixed in with local concerns for a lot of information..


Honey versus vinegar...

reply to post by rubbertramp


Were there ever utilities? Just haven't been active? If never it sounds like a show of force then. Lick boots and like it. We used to go on to check for cable theft and improper grounding after someone grounded to natural gas and blew a house up in the nineties from a lightning strike. As much as I hate to say it, I would probably send a copy of that letter to a lawyer before posting it here.

If they have a easement across your property it would be on your deed.

But this might not help if it is not, As the government CAN by eminent domain force a easement.
But this would only apply if there is no way they can get to the mine without using the forest service land.(they will not build a road if they can use your)

And they would have to go through a judge to force the eminent domain easement.
And they would have to explain to the judge why they would have to go through your property not there property

Here is one of the problems you will have.
Since the forest service does the wildland fire fighting in your area they CAN enter your property.

he had kicked in the door of my shed and had my come-a-long in his hand.

But since the forest service employee broke into your shed you should have arrested him right there and called not the supervisor BUT the sheriff.
And the forest service employee should have been fired. If not i would have called my congressman and demanded that he be fired.

They should have contacted you a long time ago to put a fire lock on your gate.
And that in its self is a problem as everyone and his brother has the keys or combo for forest service fire locks.

I still have a set of keys for forest service fire locks and i have not been a volunteer fireman for 8 years.
and in some forest they also use a 4 tumbler lock.
a248.e.akamai.net...
They use the same combo on all there fire locks in a district so if someone reads/picks one they have the combo to enter the gates in the whole district.(PS the combo is many time the last four numbers of the phone number of the district office as all employees know there district office number)

I worked in the mining industry and have seen how the forest service operates.
And i have gotten forest service employees fired for acts like that.

Yes, he broke and entered your shed for one. Cutting the lock on a gate for access is breaking and entering,, but you probably won't get too far on that. But the shed he had no warrant or no right to enter a locked building for any reason associated with a stuck truck! You should be able to get some kind of justice. Oh, well who knows with the Patriot Act. I don't know what he was up to, but if there was no fire, search and rescue, or anything he needed to get access to a section of forest for then he just thinks he can go anywhere he pleases.

Justice, what Justice?

reply to post by ripcontrol


i have all the paperwork copied and in the hands of myself, family and friends.
did that when i purchased the place.
hiring a lawyer worries me a bit, money is a bit tight.
one saving grace may be the rancher, his thinking pretty much jives with mine, and they'd need access across his ranch to get to mine.
he's a good guy, has a key to my gate in case of emergency, like mentioned, and has never used it in almost 15 years.
i even checked to see if anyone still had a claim on the mine.
nope, not since the 20's or so.

reply to post by ripcontrol


interesting points, drag is that the issue about kicking in the door was a while ago, done deal.
my mistake for not pushing it.
he was caught red handed, this is why they've left me alone till now.
most likely the reason it's a homeland security issue now.

had a nice long talk with the rancher today.
he said that for the first time in 40 years he's going to lock all the gates on the entire ranch.
he's pissed, he recieved the same basic letter i did.
he's already spoke with an attorney and is going to fight this all the way.
he gave me keys to all his gates, keys to his barn in case i need anything and even gave me a key to his house and the combo to his gun safe.
looks like this may get quite interesting.

edit to add, i did the same wih him, although i'm armed, i had no idea how ready this guy was.