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Republicans continue on their quest to destroy everything the U.S. stands for.

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posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Maybe your "dream government" can provide you with all the entitlements and answers you desire.

Yes .. unicorns jump over rainbows in the 'dream government' of socialists and marxists. Too bad the economic failure of nanny-state europe proves that living off the governments teet just doesn't work. It would behoove some people to take a basic college course in economics (that is .. if they are old enough to go to college yet)




posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman
 


Talking points is all you bring, nothing of any real importance and substance or pertinence to the topic at hand. Answer it, how does a new regulation on a corporation hinder your personal liberty? Stop running around in circles, stop skirting around the topic and finally answer the damn q!

Already been covered.
reply to post by macman
 



I covered my Backyard With Bull Sheet yesterday, but covering ATS with it doesn't do
much good. I want you to answer that question too, he has a damn good point.


Already went over it.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman
 



The way I see it, the Corp is the vehicle, The Govt is the drunkard driving the vehicle that runs over the citizen.


It is the corp execs who are the drunkards running people down. The government is supposed to be the cop who throws the corp exec in jail when they act so foolishly with all the power they get from corporate wealth.

The problem is that the repubs constantly push for free markets where the corp execs are allowed to drive drunk and run people down at will.

See story on bank above.



Sorry, but just like Ted Kennedy, the Govt is driving. I will concede that the Corp may be riding shotgun.
The Govt, at the end of the day is still in control and power still corrupts.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman
 



By that logic then, the Corp wields a mighty sword of wealth.
They bride the Govt official to do this or do that.
The Govt official is still the one creating the law, enforcing it or interpreting it. Not the Corp.


By bribing the gov official, the corporation is breaking the law.

The answer is to eliminate giant corporations, only then can we begin to shrink government.





But the Govt allows it. Look at the recent insider trading mess that was discovered.
The Govt is corrupt.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman
 



No, the only function of a Corporation is to make money, since we are operating under the "Corps aren't people".



Phhhhewwww, yeah right.

And if your right to property, life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness gets in the way of their profits, they will run you down, and the only thing that might stop them is government.

To pretend differently is to deny reality.



My ability and venture to create wealth has yet to be stifled by Corp.
Govt has created law after law that stops me from doing several things that would better me economically.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman
 


No one is looking to ban or deny you the right to shop in the stores you want, what sites you can visit, where you can and cannot travel, what you can and cannot watch but to deny the same rights that you as a person fully and should forever enjoy be afforded to that of a corporation.

Get that through your head! No one is coming for your guns, your freedom or your liberty and I will be the first person to defend you if your liberty is ever threatened but in this case I see more regulations against corporations be a swipe at your own personal liberty!

What we seek is to expand the control we all have over our own lives, the right to choose what school you send your kids to, the right to go to the doctor of your own choosing, the right to eat the food we want!
edit on 13-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)


You again?

Govt controls people. Plain and simple.
The ever encroachment of freedoms from the Patriot Act, the DHS, TSA, Battlefield Act and so on shows nothing but Govts want for control.
You, as always are clueless and delusional.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Unknown Soldier
 


As someone who has sat in on these "appointment" meetings I can attest that everything you are saying is factual. I knew Obama was gonna be POTUS as early as Q1 2008 and the Palin factor was intentionally crafted to sink their chance as would've we rather seen an old fuddy duddy who couldn't remember how many houses he owned or the airheaded ditz who thought war with The Russian Federation was a good idea. I was one of about like less then 25 people who knew of the secret "Hillary-Obama Meeting" in Aug 08 both before and while it was going on.


edit on 13-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)


Where do you you find the time?
Between Sex orgies for payment from Companies, to driving the most lavish vehicles, jet setting to meet with Ron Paul, cocktail parties with the super rich and famous, increasing profit for Matchbox Inc, who do you find the time?

I know BS when I read it.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by macman
Corporations don't really tread on my Liberties, as they don't write law. The Govt does. You are in need of a Civics class, instead of playing with toy cars.


That makes no sense at all and belittling someone with it makes even less. Only laws can tread on your liberties?
I guarantee you that me and my corporation can tread all over your liberties without writing a single law.


Really?
Show me.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
reply to post by macman
 


You really do not ever resppond to people. You seem to be reading from a script because you just hit reply and then post things that usually seem deflective at BEST.

Corporations are not people. They do not have a conscience, soul or heart. They exist for one purpose and one purpose only - MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. That is it.
Now, I have incorporated. How about when you finally get arrested by one of Obama's communist thugs for something assinine and you request a jury trial, tell me you would hope to see both me and my corporation in the jury box taking up two seats. Total employees of my corporation = 1. Me. I get two chairs. This is your wish, really?


Using one far extreme to another is not really proving anything.
A Corp is owned by a person(s). For the Govt to then state that the Corp can't contribute money to something is telling the Corp owner that they can't contribute.
If a Business is not Incorporated, then they are not subject to those rules.
Only in the Liberal Mind's eye does signing a piece of paper take away rights that others have.

The argument is such, non Corp gets to do XYZ, Corp does not.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Yeah, I have not had such extensive arguments with conservatives before, so this is a bit of a shock for me. Anything they don't like they immediately call Socialist, Marxist, Communist, or Fascist without any knowledge of they mean.
Though macman seems to be better than that... so far.

I've heard them assert that Obama and Hillary are Marxists. How do you even begin to respond to such ignorance?


Yes, I have stated that. I will not hide behind anything.
If I said it, I will own up to it.


Just for the record, I am a Conservative Libertarian.
I want the least amount of Govt as humanly possible.
Govt, is inherently evil. Its sole purpose is to control the citizens.
A snow ball starting down MT Everest if you will. It just gets bigger and bigger as it goes.


Kudos to you. I wish I were in a position to give you many stars or even applause for having the courage to admit you use words like Marxist without having any idea what they mean. It really has to take guts to finally admit that the buzz words that make up 75% of your arguments are words you have yet to understand.



I do understand Marxism, Communism and others.
Not very hard to just go read about them


Just because you want to either control the definition or rewrite history doesn't make you correct.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?


Because the government is in a position to control anyone it wants. By voting for "a smaller government" you are voting for less controls, which means more influence to big business, which means elitism. If you think the government is your problem then a)you are ignorant or b)it is in your best interest.

Obvious now?



No, you don't get to re-define terms.
I stated I want smaller and less intrusive Govt.
The idea that, that in turn just allows Corps to control doesn't fly, as if the Govt can't flex its muscle because it is constrained, then the Corp influence is null and void.
Control Govt and restrain it, control the Corp trying to bribe the constrained Govt.



Exactly. The government IS CONSTRAINED by the first amendment right of voting with money via donations. Whether or not we lessen its expenditures is immaterial as long as there are severe conflicts of interests. And yes we need much less statue laws if that is what you are getting to. The legal system is overburden with misdemeanors just so the state can collect funds.

I am not redefining anything. It is simply that you are refusing to acknowledge reality. Government=corporations and corporations=government. Since corporations directly influence government and indirectly run it, corporations should be the prime target, not government. That is why OWS is camping out at Wall Street rather than pennsylvania avenue.

One stone cast equals two birds down!


I want to start off this morning with you by stating that I have enjoyed our discussion.

Ok, so here we go.

The Govt is not constrained, at all. You need only look to things like the Patriot Act, DHS, Battlefield Act, Killing of American Citizens in other countries, use of UAVs on American Soil against Americans, Insider trading being legal for the Legislative Branch, Printing of Money and so on.
So no, the Govt is not scared of the people, thumb their nose at us while the garner more and more control.

The idea that Corps corrupt the Holey Govt official is very funny, and I know that anyone writing that is cringing while typing.
Govt, is a necessary evil. That is a fact that has been proven time and time again.

I do love that you understand that statue laws are bad. Those are a Progressive Wet dream.
The law is the law, no matter for you or I.

If not for Corps, then the Govt would have others trying to influence them.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Yep, it's the fault of the Republicans. Everything bad is their fault.

Hmmm.......and just what has Obama and his buddies the Dems have done that's good in the course of his first (and hopefully only) term in office?

The Dems had control of both the House and Senate when he first took office. All Obama did was give money to the banks. When Bush did it, it's a "bank bailout". When Obama did it, it's "Economic Stimulius".

Unemployment is up, homes are still being foreclosed, and gas prices are higher. Obama is doing a great job helping the American people.

Wait, that's all Bush's fault, right?



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by macman

The Govt is not constrained, at all. You need only look to things like the Patriot Act, DHS, Battlefield Act, Killing of American Citizens in other countries, use of UAVs on American Soil against Americans, Insider trading being legal for the Legislative Branch, Printing of Money and so on.
So no, the Govt is not scared of the people, thumb their nose at us while the garner more and more control.


Government does not have to be scared of the people because the official propaganda machine runs 24/7 and because people don't donate enough and don't get involved enough with THEIR future. If I were in the congress I would probably do the same thing. Microsoft pays way more than joe blow, so joe blow is irrellevant. If I piss off microsoft then microsoft or BP has the means to retaliate.


The idea that Corps corrupt the Holey Govt official is very funny, and I know that anyone writing that is cringing while typing.
Govt, is a necessary evil. That is a fact that has been proven time and time again.


Yep just like slaughtering a chicken so you can eat it. Government is supposed to run a nation and the babbies that cry the most get the most attention. When all else fails then you get the fear factor, just like saddam hussein fearing "shock and awe". Saddam thought bush(both jr an snr) were bluffing and he got proved wrong twice.


I do love that you understand that statue laws are bad. Those are a Progressive Wet dream.
The law is the law, no matter for you or I.

If not for Corps, then the Govt would have others trying to influence them.


But as you said it is a necessary evil. Unless you are respected people do not pay attention to you. Statue laws are necessary to a degree but to remain ethical and effective means no double standards. The american government is the worst when it comes to double standards.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


We agree on many things. Very interesting.
But I think the issue of Govt being evil and corrupt may be the dividing line between us.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Actually you might be closer to the truth than I am. Politics on earth are strange to say the least! Lets just say people cannot be in charge of their own destiny because the government does not have direct access to money.

The taxpayer is the slave and the corporations are the benefactors...although everyone pays a little here and there to keep the illusion alive. Want to take a trip aboard some spacecraft to some distant and "unpolluted" planet?

Help me create it, or maybe we can steal one from area 51?



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by macman
 


Actually you might be closer to the truth than I am. Politics on earth are strange to say the least! Lets just say people cannot be in charge of their own destiny because the government does not have direct access to money.

The taxpayer is the slave and the corporations are the benefactors...although everyone pays a little here and there to keep the illusion alive. Want to take a trip aboard some spacecraft to some distant and "unpolluted" planet?

Help me create it, or maybe we can steal one from area 51?


Sorry, but no stealing for me.

I would love to move to an Island. Taking a select few.

Create a ship?
I got the electronics, metal work, fluid hydraulics and networking down. Will need others to do the rest.

edit on 14-12-2011 by macman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Sorry, but no stealing for me.


I don't blame yah. "cia" reads everything!


Anyway back to arguing *right* versus *left* bullcrap......


Carry on!



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Yep.
I am the most evil, I guess, being a Conservative Libertarian and all.
I eat babies. NUM NUM NUM!!!!


I don't eat babies.
(gotta watch my cholesterol)
Just tiny kittens.

Since Obama took office, I haven't been this hated or reviled since Mel Gibson went to "Temple".


Yep, the fundamental change in America has leeched itself into publically accepted hatred of individualism, personal responsibility and success.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by RedShiftDrift
I think its so cute how people actually believe there is a difference between dems and repubs.


EXACTLY, they can't think outside the 2 party box they have been placed in, sealed and shut. No other world exists outside that 2 party box, and who reinforced that...why Bill Clintons mentor, can't remember his name off the top of my head, but it was a good article in the Restore the Republic magazine. Spoke volumes of how we have been duped and played for fools!!!!



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