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Republicans continue on their quest to destroy everything the U.S. stands for.

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posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by lrak2

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman
 


Corps vie for control of everything, they want to dictate how you live your life, and to think differently is being naive.

The people who control corporations want you to be their slave.

A corporation isn't a person, it is a mask for people to hide behind, wield enormous power, and all too often do very bad things without the least worry of being held responsible.



No, No and No.
No, the only function of a Corporation is to make money, since we are operating under the "Corps aren't people".

Corps do not make, enforce or interpret law. Govt does.




That is such simplistic thinking.
The aim of a Corporation is to make profit; in fact they are legally obliged to do so.

The more money they control, the greater their power and influence becomes until they are able to either directly or indirectly write the laws to suit their ultimate aim - which is more freedom to maximize profit.

The Corporation is the dominant institution of our time, like the Church was hundreds of years ago, and like the Church did, they retain ultimate power.

Conservatives love yelling about 'liberty' and 'freedom' but run straight into the arms of corporations.
What monumental effort it must take to bend reality to suit your outlook.

By that logic then, the Corp wields a mighty sword of wealth.
They bride the Govt official to do this or do that.
The Govt official is still the one creating the law, enforcing it or interpreting it. Not the Corp.

The Govt is corrupt. By its very nature it is evil and power hungry.

edit on 13-12-2011 by macman because: Spelling




posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


A government is not inheritantly evil. It becomes evil along the way when people(the watchdogs) turn a blind eye via cruise control for so long. Getting on a plane from nyc to paris on auto-pilot because both pilots are dead means the plane will crash somewhere over the ocean.

And a republic is much easier to coerce than a democracy because supposedly a few spokesman clowns think they know better than everyone else. Like I said before almost all republics eventually turn into a dictatorship. I would not worry about facism, I would worry about DHS/wall street/military if I were you.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Amazing... I think we have a breakthrough here! You actually strengthened my point, even though you don't realize it.

Yes, the Government is the entity that actually creates laws and enforces them. However, as you just admitted the Corporation can influence the Government into passing laws that support it's aims.
That is exactly the point I and the others have been trying to make.

Then you make some nonsensical statement about the Government being "inherently evil". What does that even mean? Is this some strange libertarian language?



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by macman
 


A government is not inheritantly evil. It becomes evil along the way when people(the watchdogs) turn a blind eye via cruise control for so long. Getting on a plane from nyc to paris on auto-pilot because both pilots are dead means the plane will crash somewhere over the ocean.

I disagree.
The first step is placing structured control and laws on people. With 99% of those left with no stop measure, thus providing means for further encroachment.


Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by macman
 

And a republic is much easier to coerce than a democracy because supposedly a few spokesman clowns think they know better than everyone else. Like I said before almost all republics eventually turn into a dictatorship. I would not worry about facism, I would worry about DHS/wall street/military if I were you.


I agree with the statement of DHS and such.
The way I see it, the Corp is the vehicle, The Govt is the drunkard driving the vehicle that runs over the citizen.

The Corp was the medium to do so. The Govt is still the driver



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman
 


Amazing... I think we have a breakthrough here! You actually strengthened my point, even though you don't realize it.

Yes, the Government is the entity that actually creates laws and enforces them. However, as you just admitted the Corporation can influence the Government into passing laws that support it's aims.
That is exactly the point I and the others have been trying to make.

Then you make some nonsensical statement about the Government being "inherently evil". What does that even mean? Is this some strange libertarian language?


I agree that they can influence.
So what!
The Govt knows this, and allows the influence to affect them.
Working in the realm that both are bad, the Govt still has the power.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by lrak2
 


I have asked conservatives many times what they consider small government and I seldom get a satisfactory answer. The guy you are talking to supports elitism but he will never admit it and thus he thinks of government as evil.

Of course if you go after all the money bags and place adequate restrictions on business, they view this as a threat to their global dominance. Can you imagine someone telling the bankers we don't need to borrow from you anymore because we will circulate greenbacks again? The cia would be all over them like a rash on a babies leg. They can't handle control so naturally they view government as the enemy and "as evil".

Republicans, libertarians, monarchists and anarchists are all right wing and the further to the right on my list the more extreme elitism you get. I actually talked to someone who thought monarchies were socialist in nature.


Where the hell are you ElectricUniverse??



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by lrak2
 


I have asked conservatives many times what they consider small government and I seldom get a satisfactory answer. The guy you are talking to supports elitism but he will never admit it and thus he thinks of government as evil.

Of course if you go after all the money bags and place adequate restrictions on business, they view this as a threat to their global dominance. Can you imagine someone telling the bankers we don't need to borrow from you anymore because we will circulate greenbacks again? The cia would be all over them like a rash on a babies leg. They can't handle control so naturally they view government as the enemy and "as evil".

Republicans, libertarians, monarchists and anarchists are all right wing and the further to the right on my list the more extreme elitism you get. I actually talked to someone who thought monarchies were socialist in nature.


Where the hell are you ElectricUniverse??


How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


By voting right you are voting for elitism. I honestly don't care if people do it from ignorance or consciously because the end result is always the same. The government is giving huge breaks to big business and goes after the little guys.

That is neither transparent or ethical. Just look at Operation Fast and Furious for textbook example or how after 50 years of going to the moon we STILL can't get ufo&alien disclosure. Before you label me a democrat you should know i plan on voting spusa.

Democrats are almost as bad as republicans and the libertarians are worst of all. My opinion only!



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Yeah, I have not had such extensive arguments with conservatives before, so this is a bit of a shock for me. Anything they don't like they immediately call Socialist, Marxist, Communist, or Fascist without any knowledge of they mean.
Though macman seems to be better than that... so far.

I've heard them assert that Obama and Hillary are Marxists. How do you even begin to respond to such ignorance?



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Yeah, I have not had such extensive arguments with conservatives before, so this is a bit of a shock for me. Anything they don't like they immediately call Socialist, Marxist, Communist, or Fascist without any knowledge of they mean.
Though macman seems to be better than that... so far.

I've heard them assert that Obama and Hillary are Marxists. How do you even begin to respond to such ignorance?


Yes, I have stated that. I will not hide behind anything.
If I said it, I will own up to it.


Just for the record, I am a Conservative Libertarian.
I want the least amount of Govt as humanly possible.
Govt, is inherently evil. Its sole purpose is to control the citizens.
A snow ball starting down MT Everest if you will. It just gets bigger and bigger as it goes.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?


Because the government is in a position to control anyone it wants. By voting for "a smaller government" you are voting for less controls, which means more influence to big business, which means elitism. If you think the government is your problem then a)you are ignorant or b)it is in your best interest.

Obvious now?



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?


Because the government is in a position to control anyone it wants. By voting for "a smaller government" you are voting for less controls, which means more influence to big business, which means elitism. If you think the government is your problem then a)you are ignorant or b)it is in your best interest.

Obvious now?



No, you don't get to re-define terms.
I stated I want smaller and less intrusive Govt.
The idea that, that in turn just allows Corps to control doesn't fly, as if the Govt can't flex its muscle because it is constrained, then the Corp influence is null and void.
Control Govt and restrain it, control the Corp trying to bribe the constrained Govt.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?

If you think the government is your problem then a)you are ignorant or b)it is in your best interest.

Obvious now?


It is in MY best interest to be in charge of ME.
Not Govt.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


That is not my question.
Let me restate.

How is it Elitism to want Govt limited ability to control me?


Because the government is in a position to control anyone it wants. By voting for "a smaller government" you are voting for less controls, which means more influence to big business, which means elitism. If you think the government is your problem then a)you are ignorant or b)it is in your best interest.

Obvious now?



No, you don't get to re-define terms.
I stated I want smaller and less intrusive Govt.
The idea that, that in turn just allows Corps to control doesn't fly, as if the Govt can't flex its muscle because it is constrained, then the Corp influence is null and void.
Control Govt and restrain it, control the Corp trying to bribe the constrained Govt.



Exactly. The government IS CONSTRAINED by the first amendment right of voting with money via donations. Whether or not we lessen its expenditures is immaterial as long as there are severe conflicts of interests. And yes we need much less statue laws if that is what you are getting to. The legal system is overburden with misdemeanors just so the state can collect funds.

I am not redefining anything. It is simply that you are refusing to acknowledge reality. Government=corporations and corporations=government. Since corporations directly influence government and indirectly run it, corporations should be the prime target, not government. That is why OWS is camping out at Wall Street rather than pennsylvania avenue.

One stone cast equals two birds down!



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Yeah, I have not had such extensive arguments with conservatives before, so this is a bit of a shock for me. Anything they don't like they immediately call Socialist, Marxist, Communist, or Fascist without any knowledge of they mean.
Though macman seems to be better than that... so far.

I've heard them assert that Obama and Hillary are Marxists. How do you even begin to respond to such ignorance?


Yes, I have stated that. I will not hide behind anything.
If I said it, I will own up to it.


Just for the record, I am a Conservative Libertarian.
I want the least amount of Govt as humanly possible.
Govt, is inherently evil. Its sole purpose is to control the citizens.
A snow ball starting down MT Everest if you will. It just gets bigger and bigger as it goes.


Good! I can appreciate honesty EVEN if I disagree. Gave you a star for that post.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





Republicans, libertarians, monarchists and anarchists are all right wing and the further to the right on my list the more extreme elitism you get. I actually talked to someone who thought monarchies were socialist in nature



Libertarians actually come in several degrees, some to the left some to the right. Ever hear of Green Libertarian? The regular Green Party is further left of course, and they are not so Libertarian, as they believe in eco-fascism, or control of people for the purpose of keeping the earth pristine. This is where the UN Agenda 21 sustainability stuff comes in. Some activists are anarchist type and violent and use violent or unlawful means to make a statement. You know stuff like capturing wolves in traps then pretending it was evil Sarah Palin type trappers. Then there's that hideous polar bear advertisement, and how about scaring the 3 yr olds with an eco fascist superhero who tells them the earth will die if they don't rat on their parents not recycling aluminum cans, and let us not forget the left leaning Story of Stuff which is as non factual as it is scaremongering.
Plants thrive on co2 and Al Gore is telling school kids it's poison.
It may be trendy to worship Gaia, but really do we need to go back to primitive cave man to make her happy?

America is not a monarchy so what's your problem? Didn't we stop that in 1776?
I guarantee there are more leftist anarchist than there are on the right, but both extremes are available. Noam Chomsky is a self described anarcho socialist. Explain away that one please.
The OWS is constantly stoking up trouble with the police and authorities. That is anarcho stuff and you know it.
edit on 13-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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The entire Constitution can be read in less than 20 minutes. That should be small hint that the size of the government it created will be as small and less intrusive as possible. Anyone with half a brain knows that the size of the government that it is today is so far beyond the boundaries that were set upon, and thus unconstitutional, that it's a bloated, self important, egotistical, corrupted bag of vomit.

/TOA



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


So you are saying we should pollute as much as posible? What kind of joke is that?

All the nations except china, india and the usa agree to the kyoto protocol. So is it more likely that the vast majority is wrong and the small minority is correct or vice versa? I know the answer......

Agenda 21 has no direct influence on global warming. It has to do with sustainable growth of nations and their economies.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Its going to take more than money power technology sorcery secret societies and their militaries to keep the rulers on their thrones.


We are here-



edit on 13-12-2011 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)




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