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Somebody explain property tax and how it is American.

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posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by elvenwizard
 


...And so begins a little boys distrust of government, and lifelong questioning of authority. I can relate.




posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Helious
 


Dear Helious,



I would like one person to explain to me why after you pay your house off you have to keep paying these taxes...... Please explain it.


Okay, here is what you missed. Different taxes go to different groups. Your Federal Income Tax pays for federal programs and not for your schools or local police and fire. Your state income tax pays for state programs like your state colleges; but, not for your other schools. Your county PROPERTY TAX pays for your non-college schools (primarily) and county services. Your sales tax goes to your state, county and city.

Each state is different; but, basically that is how it works. Once you buy your house, you continue to have schools, roads and police and fire. If you want those services to continue then you continue to have local taxes. Why should someone in Los Angeles pay for kids in Bakersfield to go to school? Those are local issues, not federal ones. If you have paved roads is your community then you don't need to pay as much in taxes; but, you have fewer roads to maintain.

On a local level you should be concerned with which taxes pay for local issues. Your property tax does not pay for the military. Rather than talk about some generic taxes, you need to learn which taxes pay for which services. Whatever city, county or state you live in you can find this information in their Consolidated Annual Financial Report which is also called a CAFR. If you wish to understand where the money goes, go to the Governmental Financial Officers Association (GFOA) and you will begin to understand how it works. By the way, there is no public pension crisis as they also point out, that is just a way to take more of your money and give it to politicians to use on pet projects. Peace.

Best answer yet, but it didn't really answer the question about why we have property taxes.

Property Taxes predate the Constitution, and even the colonies. They go back to the time when the king owned everything in the kingdom and his subjects paid rent to be able to use the king's property. When kings granted their subjects property rights they instituted property taxes to fund the things they wanted to do and instituted the laws that said if you didn't pay your property taxes you would forfeit the property.

The colonies used property taxes to fund the operations of their governments. By the time of the Revolution, Americans thought of property taxes as "our taxes" and only revolted against the taxes imposed by Parliament (where they had no representation).

So that is why we have property taxes.

Will we always have property taxes? Maybe not, but probably. Governor Scott in Florida campaigned on eliminating the state, county, and city portions of the property tax, leaving the school board portion. Then the economy tanked and sales taxes fell off so much that the topic of sales tax elimination hasn't been heard lately.

Property taxes are based on the thinking that the Government really owns everything and lets us use that we "own" and can take our property away if we don't pay property taxes. That is what makes property taxes un-American!



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Property tax is one I actually agree with. It's a true community tax, which is where my left-leaning side comes out and says "if I live here, I should support here". My leftist side usually gets the crap kicked out of it by my libertarian, jack boot wearing, side.


What I do have problem with, though, is that if you don't pay your property tax your home can be taken from you. Property tax is only used, at least in Texas, to fund schools, community colleges, and local government services. If you don't pay taxes, you should just be barred from being able to use those services, not have your home taken away.

/TOA



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by steveknows

I wonder, does property tax in some states in the U.S include rubbish removal? I know it doesn't in SoCal.

Obviously not in Springfield either

In the county where I live in Florida, trash collection bills vary depending on where you live.

If you live in a city, trash collection is on your monthly water bill.

If you live in an unincorporated area, trash collection is an item on your annual property tax bill.

The service is done by the same contractor and is less expense in unincorporated areas than in the cites, unless the city negotiated for contractor to provided trash cans that the truck driver can empty by himself from the driver's seat, reducing the number of employees required on each truck.



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by becomingaware
 


Well yes kinda. It really makes you think about things. Is the government on your side ? or against you.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Originally posted by steveknows

I wonder, does property tax in some states in the U.S include rubbish removal? I know it doesn't in SoCal.

Obviously not in Springfield either

In the county where I live in Florida, trash collection bills vary depending on where you live.

If you live in a city, trash collection is on your monthly water bill.

If you live in an unincorporated area, trash collection is an item on your annual property tax bill.

The service is done by the same contractor and is less expense in unincorporated areas than in the cites, unless the city negotiated for contractor to provided trash cans that the truck driver can empty by himself from the driver's seat, reducing the number of employees required on each truck.


Seems like alot of places have diffrent ways of doing things. In every state in Australia it's collected by the local council and paid for through land rates. Once a week for normal rubbish (green colour wheely bin) and once a fortnight for recyclable rubbish.( wheely bin with a yellow lid) I'm 42 now and the one man garbage trucks came in when I was a kid but if I remember really hard I can just remember the garbage truck with the blokes picking up the old galvanised bins and emptying them in the rear compactor of the garbage truck. Some of our best rugby players were garbos


Actually it is a bit more different now. When I was a kid all the garbage trucks were council owned and operated but now they're subcontract to the council, Well most are anyway.
edit on 12-12-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by steveknows
Perhaps the concept is that education is in the interest of a nation so every one must wear it. I don't know of course because where I come form education is state funded, unless it's a private school. Well people funded via the states but you know what I mean.

I understand the concept and I don't necessarily have issues with it, despite my comment about people without kids. That is impossible to verify in a real world way which could work so it'll never happen anyway. Given that I think it's more a question of value for the money.

My main point is that between the time I was in school in the 80's and now, parents have come to pay for nearly all classroom supplies their own child might use AND what other children may use. Atop this, as parents, we're under pressure to help our kids with fundraisers..not once...but a few times a year. Looking at the PTA budget those fund raisers are being run FOR....the highest line items are for faculty benefits like complimentary beverages/soft drinks in the break room and similar things.

All this, while a number of schools in my Southern Missouri district don't have so much as an window unit for air conditioning. September and late spring/early summer class rooms can be brutal on heat. It'd be a few hundred per unit from Sam's Club to make a serious difference in the class room square footage and room size.

There are actually a series of reasons why learning more about how the schools take in money, yet still leave parents paying for almost every supply a physical class room has makes it worse in paying taxes. Whatever they're actually covering...it's sure shrinking fast in the past several years.


You're bloody right. I know that in Australia education is supposed to be free. I think it's in the constitution. And all I remember my parents paying for (and I finished school in the 80's as well) is the materials used in art classes and that was if you chose to keep the art and also they paid for excursions and exercise books (text books were supplied) and the pens pencils and pencil cases and such. But with my own daughter (who finished school last year) I was hit with this and that and had to pay fees on top of all that every term, they're not much but they add up in a 3 term year.. What the F... is going on? It's like it's been snuck in slowely. Add to todays costs the technology they must have access to that we didn't have to worry about. My mum took me shopping for a scientific calculator when I enterd high school. I did the same with my daughter plus a laptop.

In regards to fundraising you're right they're always dumping something on the kids and it comes back on the parents. Funding for school has always been an election thing in Aus and it has peeved people off that our schools have fund raisers while our government sends half a billion dollars to indonesia to build, not schools for all Indonesians , but musilm schools.
edit on 12-12-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Pretty soon, your gonna start owing me money Slayer, education in America isn't free these days.





OK, First off... Not every State can pay for it all with only "Lottery Proceeds" [Which having a State Lottery has helped offset the costs. Secondly "less schools these days and more like training camps" Are you going to propose a solution or just Nit pick and point out your perceived flaws with the system?


Yes, state lottery proceeds along with the other local and community taxes are more than able to pay for schools and then some. I would love to propose a solution, cut the fat......... ALOT of it, get the cops out of the school yards. There shouldn't be a police outpost in high schools nor an on duty officer at every junior high school. Teachers these days act like there probation officers.

Start teaching our children what there taught in our history books by example instead of telling them one thing and then doing another within the same institution the lesson is taught. American children are taught how to conform through random searches, a government authority presence and by crushing any rebellion by lock downs, locker searches and intimidation.




Are you proposing MOB rule with no legal or justice system at all? I agree there are some laws and regulations that should be done away with. Hopefully you'll do the right about thing as a Citizen and get a movement going [Instead of Nit picking online] and become a Civic activist so we can get some of the outdated and unnecessary laws changed and or amended.


I'm sorry, do you know me outside of ATS? How can you assume what I am involved in other than this website? Am I proposing MOB rule? Is that a rhetorical question? If not, to be clear, I am not advocating MOB rule, what I am pushing for is for the government of the United States of America to adhere, enforce and guarantee our Constitution, the supreme law that all others SHOULD be derived from in this........ "Country"? Since they are not in any way shape or form honoring that document that governs our affairs as Americans, how then can I be expected to conform to laws that have been passed that I and many others view as grossly unjust and in direct violation of what we as Americans view as supreme law?




And YOU speak for the Majority of us 310,000,000 Americans?


Uhh, Ummm, Yeah, actually I do. Please show me any poll, any at all that shows Americans are happy with Congress, the Executive branch or approve by even a marginal percentage of our spending, war mongering or economy..... That, in point of fact, is a rhetorical statement because there isn't one and we both know it. Spare me...




Nor concern yourself with reality and facts.


You know what the reality is? America is at the brink, the point of no return. Our economy has failed. Our sham of a two party system can no longer hide the greed of Corporatism and people are starting to realize the fact that we are nothing more than fuel to the bigger fire that are foreign and domestic bankers, who lure, bait and feed on the general populace and sell them fiat currency and the promise of a lazy Utopian society to the end of homelessness, slavery and emptiness. Perhaps, my friend, it is you who should search for some reality and facts.




So... You admit you have an agenda. What solutions are you providing us for these issues?


Yes, I have an agenda, it starts here and now with debunking a post like this. Another pro America "we are the light and the hope" rant that does nothing but to deceive others on how truly far we are in the dung heap. My solution? First....... Everytime you hear somebody screaming from the rooftop about how good we have it and how great our country is, take a little bit of time to research it for yourself, when you realize all is not what you have been led to belive, find other like minded people and do something in private.

edit on 12-12-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)



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