COP17 - Climate Conference gets Heated!

The controversial conference is drawing to a close in the South African city of Durban.
climate-l.iisd.org... otocol/

The 17th session of the UNFCCC Conference of the Parties (COP 17) and the seventh session of the Conference of the Parties serving as the meeting of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol (COP/MOP 7) to the Kyoto Protocol will take place in Durban, South Africa. South Africa's website: www.cop17durban.com... dates: 28 November - 9 December 2011 location: Durban (Kwazulu-Natal), South Africa contact: UNFCCC Secretariat

Here are some visuals:

Several incidents of minor violence broke our during the conference, as environmentalists and various socialist groups competed for official admission and attention.
www.ecr.co.za...

Just a few hours ago a conference with SA President Jacob Zuma resulted in a violent confrontation between protestors and official volunteers, who wanted to remove their placards from the Durban City Hall.

Despite cloistered and intense talks, it appears that there is little agreement on emissions or improvements since Kyoto.

Frustration builds at COP17:

Durban - After 12 days of wrangling, UN climate talks went into extra time on Friday with China, the US and India facing pressure to back a European bid for a new worldwide pact on greenhouse gases.

But with conference chair South Africa taking a cautious, consensus-building approach, the outcome remained extremely unpredictable.

A core group of ministers from about two dozen countries, representative of rich and poor countries alike, was expected to haggle into the night.

Assuming they found common ground, their compromise would be put to a plenary of the 194-nation UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) on Saturday.

On the table is a European scheme claimed to be backed by nearly two-thirds of the world's nations.

They support a "roadmap" leading to an accord, to be negotiated by 2015 which for the first time would bind all nations to legal commitments to tackle greenhouse gases.

Rallying around the European proposal are the least developed countries, the African bloc, small island states and Brazil and South Africa, said European Climate Commissioner Connie Hedegaard.

Without naming names, Hedegaard said this left the United States, China and India to declare their hand. The US and China are the world's biggest emitters.

"The success or failure of Durban depends on the small number of countries who have not yet committed to the roadmap and the meaningful content that it of course must have," said Hedegaard.

The roadmap scheme aims at filling a void at a time when scientists are urging ever more radical action to curb carbon emissions driving the planet to worsening food, drought, rising seas and storms.

The goal is to bridge the gap between the end of 2012 - when the first round of legal-binding curbs commitments under the Kyoto Protocol expire - and 2020, the date for which countries have made voluntary pledges on carbon reductions.

www.news24.com...


Sad to think that nobody on ATS seems to give a flying continental.

Understanding the COP17 UN Climate Talks in 3 minutes (well, not exactly):



Obviously the Western world is so disinterested, they cannot wait to pay new carbon taxes.

On the deadlock in the climate change negotiations.
A good discussion from India, one of the fastest growing economies:

OK, so there is a notion the some scientists question climate change and a causal link to fossil fuels.
Apparently they did speak at the start of the conference, but the overwhelming majority do see climate change as real, and mankind's activities as central to Global Warming.

More strangely, a lot of these people say that the USA should just be ignored (as the biggest global polluter), since they are not rational.

All the other countries should first get together with a sane solution and change, and then confront them with it at a later stage.

The big fear with this is that some European countries are hiding behind the US.

That would spell global disaster.

COP17 - Fossil of the Day Award!
Usually this goes to the country that has blocked negotiations for that day.

Day 1:

Actually the above is a bit surprising.

The UK comes third for the "Fossil awards", but Canada comes second and first!

They come second because one of their environmental ministers said they came to Durban to play "hardball" with developing countries, and they came first for what seems to be dishonest behavior.

I always liked Canada.
On no, why Canada?

Strange how the whole of ATS is full of Occupy this or that.

And then there's one event that has the potential to bring it all together globally ...
And it's silence.
Complete and utter disinterest.

Funny really.

At the risk of sounding trite and reactionary:

For me getting to Durban from where I live in SA won't take too long, perhaps three to four hours in a car and plane.

But still, I'd be using fossil fuels.

So isn't a gathering like this supporting the very industry it protests?

Unless all those people walked there or rowed there with a canoe (Durban is a coastal city) then aren't they hypocrites?

Or is it a matter of degree?

reply to post by halfoldman


Great thread OP - great coverage of these events. I confess I have never before read a thread in the 'Education' forum on ATS and almost didn't read this one except that it kept popping up on the front page so persistence wins again.

Loved the slogan from a group in one of the videos you presented, "There is no Planet B." I am sad to hear the sentiments about the U.S. not leading, not really being involved and not being rational on this issue. Americans, I think, are very concerned about emissions...but in this case it is not Americans speaking but Corporations. Corporations and their emissions today benefit very few Americans. Politicians here that owe their positions to Corporations that are gross polluters will not jeapordize those positions by taxing Corporations. Corporations don't represent the American people.

The information on the U.K. and Canada and how developing nations feel they need to proceed is fascinating. The whole global warming thing has become such a soap opera...one needs to tune in every day to get the latest i.e. is it warming or is it cooling or is it manmade or is it something else. Still I think every one can agree on emissions, regardless of what else and there are few in the world who profit from unchecked emissions and many who suffer. It's a no brainer.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Thanks so much for that!


And yeah, at the end of the day it's just been a disaster in so many ways to tap a fossilized forest for our energy needs, and release all that gas.

And then there's so much other pollution: pollution of the rivers, and the oceans, for example.

The whole concept is just a practical mess.
It's a real tragedy, because whatever greater evil one can think of - from tribal displacement to slavery - you are sure to find exploitation in every sense in that industry.

And that industry lies behind everything else.
That industry makes our moral music.

America booed as climate talks close:
www.guardian.co.uk...

It appears that many countries came in for a tongue lashing at COP17, as US-led power blocks expect fairness in reductions from "developing countries" (and whether China is indeed still a "developing country" similar to most African states is debatable), but as expected the political situationist for the US seems especially dogged under an economic recession and various conspiracy theories regarding climate change.

An insider's view of the talks in Durban:

China has long resisted calls to be legally bound by a climate treaty, insisting that as a developing country it should not have to, whereas developed countries should, as they have a larger share of historical emissions. But now it must make a tricky choice – to spurn the offer of an extension to Kyoto, which would paint it firmly as the villain, the wrecker of a deal and thus of the climate; or to move away from its entrenched opposition to a legally binding treaty, and start being treated more like a developed country. That choice will reshape the world's approach to climate change forever.

Even with China on board, however, the future of climate negotiations is not assured. The US, which signed up to Kyoto in 1997 under Bill Clinton, only to never ratify the agreement because of stiff opposition in Congress, is another. For President Obama, facing an election campaign amid the worst recession for 80 years, the political reality is a Durban deal would be used as ammunition by his opponents, most of whom dismiss climate change as a conspiracy to defraud Americans. For the real villain – look behind Obama, to the Republican party.

Mixed video clips on COP17:
www.edie.net...

The climate change CFACT "denialists" and Lord Monckton dramatically drop in by parachute to draw attention to "Climategate":



A big drama over much ado about nothing?

Oh my hat - Finally!

COP17 draws to close on Sunday Morning 11 December 2011 (two days late).

Not sure what they achieved, but some amendment to Kyoto, and a framework that will have effects in 2015 and 2020.
The 2012 meeting is in Qatar. I wonder what they will do about their policy of not allowing HIV-poz visitors in their country, or whether they will turn a diplomatic blind eye?

www.iol.co.za...

Well, all's well that end's well, and I think some of our moments here bear witness to a still democratic society.
I'm not sure how Qatar will deal with such moments.
When it first started it seemed awfully dull, but it became quite a blast.
Who can forget the scenes at the city hall on Thursday?

A climate change meeting to be addressed by President Jacob Zuma took an unruly turn at the Durban City Hall on Thursday when people carrying posters reading “Zuma stand with the poor, not the USA” were attacked by supporters of the president.

The aim of the meeting was for Zuma to give feedback on a consultation session with civil society organisations on the sidelines of the 17th Conference of the Parties of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (COP17).

Another group, who sang Zuma songs, grabbed the demonstrators and pushed them out of the hall.

www.iol.co.za...

And then of course the Western countries and "America" didn't notice much, as they still imagine that the black liberation forces in SA love them to bits for ending apartheid, when the exact opposite is true.
Oh the irony.

Now there's a philosophical question: if people hate some system, but the hated system simply doesn't notice, does that mean it's really hatred? Is ignorance bliss?
Perhaps "hatred" is a bit strong, and "dislike" would be a better word.

One of the many propaganda videos?

Zodwa Rannyabi, a woman from Soweto claims we no longer have four seasons in a year.

Then there's a bit of a guilt-trip just for Canada (which I find quite perplexing).



The New York based Environmental Defense Council, formed in 1970, appears to have turned the message of global warming into effective visual formats:

Youth activists led by representatives from some of the world's most threatened island nations occupy the COP17 Plenary on the 9 December.
It begins with a rather unfortunate rendition of Shosholoza, but it was all heartfelt.

A report from Democracy Now: