We are all in heaven NOW

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?


Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?

I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


My point is this, if you do not have a "hellish" perspective then automatically it is a heavenly one...

Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...
edit on 9-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?


Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?

I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.


I can' t believe what i am reading! So a baby who is being brutally murdered, chooses too suffer? So, if you have a child that was brutally raped and murdured by a child molester, you are going to say that he chose to suffer?
edit on 9-12-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-12-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
 



Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...


Look out your _ Or turn on the news.... your perspective will change pretty fast. If this is heaven here and now like you say....I don't want any part of it.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


My point is this, if you do not have a "hellish" perspective then automatically it is a heavenly one...

Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...
edit on 9-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)


How the hell does a babies perspective change! to the point where they are brutally murdered!?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


"How can a baby's perspective change to the point that they are brutally murdered?"

Well you make it sounds like their perspective is the cause of that... is that what you are saying? Can you rephrase or emphasize the question?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?


Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?

I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.


I can' t believe what u am reading! So a baby who is being brutally murdered, chooses too suffer? So, if you have a child that was brutally raped and murdrred by a child milester, you are going to say that he chose to suffet?


No, I am not saying that they chose to have something deemed a sufferable act to happen to them, but I am well aware of many adults who still base all their actions on what has previously happened to them as a child. They say "I am like this because my father abused me". You are like that because you chose to be. I highly doubt, any way, that a baby who was brutally murdered would think to himself "This is horrible and I am suffering". Babies respond just like anyone to pain, of course, via crying out, but a baby is clinically unable to comprehend things like this in its mental process until around the age of three years old.

If I had a child that was brutally raped and murdered by a child molester, I would not say that he chose to suffer, but how could I say anything for him if he was already gone? I could go the rest of my life being miserable because of what had happened in the "past" or I could accept the situation for what it was and live my life.

If you are looking down the barrel of a gun and know that your life is about to end, what difference is it going to make if you break-down, cry, and think "This is the most horrible thing in the world that could possible happen to me!" What difference would it make? I would rather leave the world on a happy note so I would just accept the fact that my life was about to end and be at peace with my final moment.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


My point is this, if you do not have a "hellish" perspective then automatically it is a heavenly one...

Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...
edit on 9-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)


No it is not automatically a heavenly one.

It is more balanced and realistic -- life.

Unless, of course, one is deluded into thinking the other extreme and all is lollipops and rainbows, that is...



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


"How can a baby's perspective change !to the point that they are brutally murdered?"

Well you make it sounds like their perspective is the cause of that... is that what you are saying? Can you rephrase or emphasize the question?


what!?
You are not making any sense! You start of by saying we are in heaven crap if we choose to be. I bring up babies who are brutally murdured dont have that choice. You are the one who brought up changing perspectives. I have a feeling that debating with you is pointless. You have your silly little theory all to yourself, and i know how arragont a human being can be



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Chamberf=6
 


You are filtering things through your perspective...



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


...of sense and realism.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?


Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?

I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.


I can' t believe what u am reading! So a baby who is being brutally murdered, chooses too suffer? So, if you have a child that was brutally raped and murdrred by a child milester, you are going to say that he chose to suffet?


No, I am not saying that they chose to have something deemed a sufferable act to happen to them, but I am well aware of many adults who still base all their actions on what has previously happened to them as a child. They say "I am like this because my father abused me". You are like that because you chose to be. I highly doubt, any way, that a baby who was brutally murdered would think to himself "This is horrible and I am suffering". Babies respond just like anyone to pain, of course, via crying out, but a baby is clinically unable to comprehend things like this in its mental process until around the age of three years old.

If I had a child that was brutally raped and murdered by a child molester, I would not say that he chose to suffer, but how could I say anything for him if he was already gone? I could go the rest of my life being miserable because of what had happened in the "past" or I could accept the situation for what it was and live my life.

If you are looking down the barrel of a gun and know that your life is about to end, what difference is it going to make if you break-down, cry, and think "This is the most horrible thing in the world that could possible happen to me!" What difference would it make? I would rather leave the world on a happy note so I would just accept the fact that my life was about to end and be at peace with my final moment.


Well thats not what the OP thinks, so why are you agreeing with him? This is about the children/babies who are murdured and not given the chane to be happy in this so called heaven, not the people who have to pick up their live after their baby/child has been murdured.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Can you please just rephrase and elaborate on your question and I'll be happy to answer. I'm not sure that I'm understanding it. Thank you



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Can you please just rephrase and elaborate on your question and I'll be happy to answer. I'm not sure that I'm understanding it. Thank you


what! LOL What dont you understand? Read your posts again, then read mine. Sigh



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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Evermore newness and expansion of consciousness while encased by finite, as finite? Not heaven here.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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If this is heaven, I am pissed because some one lied to me. I don't imagine that heaven is a place that has, rape, murder, war, drugs, death, destruction, child abuse and on and on and on....

If that is your idea of heaven, then so be it, but honestly, I look around and ...I find it easier to believe that we are in hell...

My humble philosophical opinion, anyway.

See you around the board
edit on 9-12-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris

Well thats not what the OP thinks, so why are you agreeing with him? This is about the children/babies who are murdured and not given the chane to be happy in this so called heaven, not the people who have to pick up their live after their baby/child has been murdured.


Could you please tell me your definition of happiness? Excuse me if I am wrong, but it sounds as if you defining happiness through objects and life-situation. Which, again, I reiterate that happiness comes from within. Everyone has the chance to be happy.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Can you please just state it again so that I can answers it?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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Most problems people have suggested on why this planet is not a heaven are problems which people on this planet have caused.





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