It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?
Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?
Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?
I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
My point is this, if you do not have a "hellish" perspective then automatically it is a heavenly one...
Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...edit on 9-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Jay-morris
Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?
Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?
I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.
I can' t believe what u am reading! So a baby who is being brutally murdered, chooses too suffer? So, if you have a child that was brutally raped and murdrred by a child milester, you are going to say that he chose to suffet?
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
My point is this, if you do not have a "hellish" perspective then automatically it is a heavenly one...
Everyone is already having a heavenly perspective until they DEVIATE from it, so babies are automatically in heaven until their perspective change...edit on 9-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
"How can a baby's perspective change !to the point that they are brutally murdered?"
Well you make it sounds like their perspective is the cause of that... is that what you are saying? Can you rephrase or emphasize the question?
Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
Originally posted by Jay-morris
Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
Im not talking about me. my example was children, babies who are brutally murdered. They don't have a choice. So what sort if heaven is this when that is the case?
Are you speaking for these children? People (babies included) have to choose to suffer just because of what happened to them? Under what law does it say that "because I have received ill harm and something that is subjectively considered "bad" I have to suffer"?
I have to agree with the OP that Heaven and Hell are merely perspective states of mind. You can create Heaven for yourself in being truly acceptive, or you can create Hell for yourself. The Universe is not being personal in setting up someone to undergo suffering, but yet the egoic mind still takes things as personal and chooses to dwell on them and provide the flame of negativity with more fuel.
I can' t believe what u am reading! So a baby who is being brutally murdered, chooses too suffer? So, if you have a child that was brutally raped and murdrred by a child milester, you are going to say that he chose to suffet?
No, I am not saying that they chose to have something deemed a sufferable act to happen to them, but I am well aware of many adults who still base all their actions on what has previously happened to them as a child. They say "I am like this because my father abused me". You are like that because you chose to be. I highly doubt, any way, that a baby who was brutally murdered would think to himself "This is horrible and I am suffering". Babies respond just like anyone to pain, of course, via crying out, but a baby is clinically unable to comprehend things like this in its mental process until around the age of three years old.
If I had a child that was brutally raped and murdered by a child molester, I would not say that he chose to suffer, but how could I say anything for him if he was already gone? I could go the rest of my life being miserable because of what had happened in the "past" or I could accept the situation for what it was and live my life.
If you are looking down the barrel of a gun and know that your life is about to end, what difference is it going to make if you break-down, cry, and think "This is the most horrible thing in the world that could possible happen to me!" What difference would it make? I would rather leave the world on a happy note so I would just accept the fact that my life was about to end and be at peace with my final moment.
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Jay-morris
Can you please just rephrase and elaborate on your question and I'll be happy to answer. I'm not sure that I'm understanding it. Thank you
Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well thats not what the OP thinks, so why are you agreeing with him? This is about the children/babies who are murdured and not given the chane to be happy in this so called heaven, not the people who have to pick up their live after their baby/child has been murdured.