*Inciting racial hatred?:* Can (extreme) Islam ever coexist with 'the west'?

QUOTE____________
cannot believe the ignorance that is being displayed here.
who has invaded whom here. aside from a few questionably
islamic terrorists attacking the us and furthering the bush/carlyle/
halliburton agenda, where are the muslims fighting for anything
but the freedom of their home and holylands? mohamed the prophet taught the same hidden truths that jesus christ taught. tolerance, forgiveness, and an inner divinity. there is a reason we have been
called the great satan by many islamic nations. we have spent the
last three years and beyond destroying the most ancient and holy
places that exist on our planet. something like four million pounds
of depleted uranium munitions have been used by us. this is the cradle
of civilisation, and it has been reduced to a radioactive smoldering
mess, which will be unable to support life for millions of years.
someone is having a hard time coping witrh others here,
its pretty obvious. what can be done to change this? get the hell out
x
____________________________________

Cant agree more with this, also I am appaled that the level of ingnorance and hate displayed in this thread.

Ill give you some info and before you retort with some idiotic questions try to find answers for yourselves and not believe all they tell you READ LEARN AND MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN OPPINION.

The muslim world have not made any contributions to the advancement of civilization?
Why do you think Irak is called the craddle of civilization? the first civil code was written there and you may be surprised but a lot of pprinciples of modern civil law is based on Mesopotamian Law, the muslims were more advanced in medical knowledge than westeners up to the 18 century!!!

But sure they must be ignorant......

ANY EXTREMISM IS BAD AND DIFFICULT TO LIVE WITH OR COHEXIST BECAUSE EXTREMISM IS DESTROYING< RACIST AND I N T O L E R A N T .

Ill give you very "nice examples of extremism" so you can stop throwing stones.....

Cortez de spanish conquistador Killed more that 500K Mexican Natives in the name of Spain and the Church.
The Cruzades were Extremist wars by the vatican against the muslims death toll: unknow but surelly thousands
Good ol Henry (real name) jones killed almosy a Thousand in Guyana (by the way those were American citizens) in the name of a religious sect ( dont get me into WACO )
European Invaders killed and reduced the American Natives and to this very day to Puny reservations.
A lot of Mexican Illegals and Mexican Inmigrants are quite EXTREMISTS and have the "aztlan" extremism and want to recover the land from the US (to prove that extremism exist everywhere and is fueled by hate and IGNORANCE.
The relious wars in India the sijs etc......same thing
Every religion has its extremists and the people who want MATERIAL POWER (those are not saints).

Back to the topic, the world as we know it were profit and dollar is king, is against the principles of ALL READ CLEARLY all base phylosophical bases of modern religions, clearly the ones more "attached" to belifs are the Budists, the Muslims and to some extent the Jews, So yes THE "moderns WORLD order cannot exist with those extremists of ANY RELIGION, most of us who embrace the 10 commandments are almost daily in a connundrum of chossing beetween material wealth and power and those 10 commandments.
SOME CHOOSE TO LIVE PEACEFULLY AND OTHER DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NAD A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE ARE WILLING TO DIE FOR IT AND TO COMMINT CRIMES IN THE NAME OF RELIGION (RELIGION not GOD )

Peace to all ....

Originally posted by Kano
The kidnappings and beheadings are a different thing, they are premeditated and carried out by a smaller group of people who are carrying out their own agenda.

I understand your point about these things happening for different reasons, but the fact is, the acts in themselves are a terroristic act. Different kettle, same fish.

I think it has been made clear that "extreme Islam" embraces terrorism. Islam in general needs to get their factions in-line or be guilty of in-action.

How things are being handled currently by todays standard is what is in question. The civilized must eradicate the cancer (extreme Islam) which has infected Islam if Islam does not deal with it. The civilized keep asking Islam to deal with the problem and join the civilized. The question is, will they?

Unfortunately for them, the answer seems to be a NO. I fear that after the next 911 style attack, muslims in the United States will feel a backlash that makes the treatment of Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor, look like a stroll in the park....

Islamic organizations should tap those muslim celebrities (mostly African American sports atheletes), and kick off a nationwide campaign to denounce the actions of militant islamic organizations, and make a concerted effort to distance themselves from it and make the public aware of this....

Sadly, they are missing the boat, and by the time they think to take it, it will have already left the dock.....

Can we exist with muslims?

Of course we can, the few I know other than having a few strange ways not unlike the more religious right, seem like good people. I see nothing any more wrong with them than I do say, Pat Robinson or Jerry Falwell. As long as we keep the seperation of church and state this country was founded on I dont see it becoming a problem here.

The problem with the extremists are another matter all togather. I dont see how the WORLD can live with them.

What is needed from the Muslim side is for the clerics to come out against what the crazies are doing, if they dont they make it seem as if they are supporting them.

What is needed from our side is to relize that not every Muslim is a bomb thrower, if they were we would have a lot more problems than a handful of attacks here in the states



[edit on 7-9-2004 by Amuk]

Another good question is "can extreme Islam co-exist with itself". When was the last time there was no war in predominatly Islamic countries? I think the extremists are all about seeking power and instilling hate. The rest of the world seems to have gotten over tribal feudalism as we've enjoyed the fruits of getting along.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
nfinite, I found some info on these kids. They DONT do it to themselves. Parents cut them with swords or knifes. Heres a quote

Shiite Muslim child Mahmoud Slieman after his mother cut him with a sword during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in the southern Lebanese town of Nabatiyeh, Tuesday March 2, 2004. Ashoura day marks the Shiite Muslim�s commemoration of the 7th century killing of their most revered Saint Imam Hussein. Al Hussein was a grandson of Islam�s prophet Mohammed and is a symbol of martyrdom for Shiites.

Here is the link:WARNING, GRAPHIC PICS!!
www.littlegreenfootballs.com...

Sick People!

Sorry i took long to respond, i was offline
You may not agree with it, but respect their views and belief

[edit on 7-9-2004 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite

Sorry i took long to respond, i was offline

You may not agree with it, but respect their views and belief

[edit on 7-9-2004 by infinite]

Dont sweat it. I just got back from getting my next quarter books anyway.

I know that I should accept people for who they are and not what I want them to be. But there seems to be a line crossed when you bring your children enmasse to a public celibration and proceed to inflict bodily harm on them. I dont adhere to any particular religeon, but I dont see cathloics or christians jamming a crown of thorns on thier childrens heads to celebrate the sacrifice that they strongly believe in.

I may have been wrong when I said sick people. But honestly, why do this to your kids? IMHO these people should realize that by inflicting these wounds on them, they are damaging thier children emotionally. I know that if my daughter gets even the smallest scratch from playing, I pull out the noesporen. I dont grab a steak knife and attempt to further the wound. I dont agree with it and I cant respect it. I do know that there is absolutly nothing I can do about it though, and I guess that part of it I can accept.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
But there seems to be a line crossed when you bring your children enmasse to a public celibration and proceed to inflict bodily harm on them.

I know, but its their religion. Its showing love to their God, please dont ask me to explain why cause im not a muslim.

It has changed somewhat and I would be interested to hear all of your views now.....

Thanks,

HTMB

Extreme Islam??? have u read the koran????

There is two types of Muslims

1.) Muslims
2.) Moderate Muslims

Saying there is extremists in islam. Is like saying mohammed the founder of islam was peaceful man that created a peaceful ideology. But that's not the case, read the koran and you will see where they get their insirpation.

You will see pattern with words of the koran and terrorists actions. Kidnappings, ransom is one.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by Thinker]

A better question might be: Why do so many Muslims choose to live in societies that
are not (at least not YET) suited to thier beliefs? We all know that Islam is decidedly anti�west (i.e. anti�European and anti�white American) Why do they come to live
among such godless, decadent people?

Originally posted by muppet
Sorry mate but I've seen peaceful coexistence in my home town (highest percentage muslim in the UK), for the last 30 years. We haven't had any problems at all here. Which huge problems are you talking about exactly? It's the right-wing/BNP/NF types that are causing all the ruckus and fanning the fires of hatred in the UK.

I regularly hear of racial taunting, abuse and all round bad attitudes directed at white people. Islam is the most two faced backward religeon in the world, who claim such high upon thou virtues while breaking every single one yet are quite prepared to hide behind them when they feel the need. rasism is a double edged sword and the Muslims wield it with abandon. hypocrites.

Ive been regularly taunted walking down the street by these cowards who use their own language because they havent got the guts to use ours. (Ihave a white friend who speaks the lingo so i do know im telling the truth.)

And as for this cleric who openly invites terroriat attacks agains school children of UK. (I have 5 nieces at school and if they are harmed because of this Muslim nutjob...)

Believe it or not i want peace, but these people seem to have a devine right to dominate the world. Hitler had the same dream as did communism.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by rustiswordz]

[edit on 8-9-2004 by rustiswordz]

Because as with all religions, they understand that the to take a book which was written millenia ago completely literally would be just foolish.

Thinker, a similar observation can be made about the laws of the bible. Or the Torah.

In the Bible for example, we find that noone has a problem with Slavery, and that God is not disinclined to commit or order people to commit genocide every now and then. Also there is a list of reasons that justify the killing of a person. Some notables from the list:

• for following another religion: Exodus 22:20
  
• for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51
  
• for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21
  
• for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24
  
• for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17
  
• for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29
  
• for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21
  
• for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16
  
• for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2
  
• for accidentally killing a pregnant woman: Exodus 21:22-23
  
• A male who was not circumcised: Genesis 17:14
  
• Manufacturing anointing oil: Exodus 30:33
  
• A prophet whose prophecy does not come true: Deuteronomy 18:22
  
• Persons teaching another religion: Deuteronomy 13:1-11
  
• Gluttony and excessive drinking: Deuteronomy 21:20
  

and the list goes on and on. Yet in the west it is widely accepted that those rules and penalties are not relevant in todays society (although I'd suggest there are quite a few extreme groups who think they are). The same is true of the muslims we have living in the west. Nor do modern Muslim nations hold to the specifics of the laws of the Koran, some do more than others obviously. The closest was the Taliban. They were a pretty good example of how these ancient laws simply don't apply in modern times.

Our society have become too political correct, so intangled by some many laws. That it has made our society so weak, made leaders weak in acting againist terrorism.

Terrorist attack.

US which was most likely created by the US government.
Started a war.

spainish governments, lead a police investation. WEAK!!.

France the same thing, hit by terrorist attacks, still intangled with their political correct laws.

England they threat their kids, they do nothing..WEAK!

Originally posted by Kano
Because as with all religions, they understand that the to take a book which was written millenia ago completely literally would be just foolish.

Thinker, a similar observation can be made about the laws of the bible. Or the Torah.

In the Bible for example, we find that noone has a problem with Slavery, and that God is not disinclined to commit or order people to commit genocide every now and then. Also there is a list of reasons that justify the killing of a person. Some notables from the list:

• for following another religion: Exodus 22:20
  
• for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51
  
• for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21
  
• for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24
  
• for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17
  
• for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29
  
• for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21
  
• for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16
  
• for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2
  
• for accidentally killing a pregnant woman: Exodus 21:22-23
  
• A male who was not circumcised: Genesis 17:14
  
• Manufacturing anointing oil: Exodus 30:33
  
• A prophet whose prophecy does not come true: Deuteronomy 18:22
  
• Persons teaching another religion: Deuteronomy 13:1-11
  
• Gluttony and excessive drinking: Deuteronomy 21:20
  

and the list goes on and on. Yet in the west it is widely accepted that those rules and penalties are not relevant in todays society (although I'd suggest there are quite a few extreme groups who think they are). The same is true of the muslims we have living in the west. Nor do modern Muslim nations hold to the specifics of the laws of the Koran, some do more than others obviously. The closest was the Taliban. They were a pretty good example of how these ancient laws simply don't apply in modern times.

What your doing is comparing Secularism which has no morals, to judaism. Then geting the end product to say that judaism is volient. But you are not comparing judaism to Islam. Their is far greater ratio of volience in Islam which is directed at outsiders then the volience in judaism which its directed to it's believers and followers.

But the reality is Volience to jewish believers by the jewish priests you never hear about.

But the volience which islam supports againist outsiders is on the news everyday.

Reality is Judaism doesn't prompt terrorism, nor does christianity.
Reality Judaism and christians are not volient, secularists are far more volient then jews and christians. Muslims are far more volient then common crimnals.



[edit on 8-9-2004 by Thinker]

Do a little research on the Balkans, and the fun christians had there less than a decade ago. All religions have the capacity to be subverted and used to justify heinous crimes. All religions have the capacity to be positive and to do a huge amount of good in the world. It is the circumstances and environments that the followers of that religion find themselves in that defines which way they choose to go with their religion.

Where does it say in the bible of serbs to sticking screw drivers into the muslims ears? Where does it say in christianity to make sure these muslims suffer?

If i say i'm a christian and i go around killing people and then someone says he is christian and his a savage barbarian. Christians are barbarians and are voilent. Then comes the priest of church and says how do you call your self a christian if their are no words in the book to support your actions? But in Islam they have this support written in their koran. This explains why terrorism is hot in the middle east. Simply the religion is what breeds it.

Dangerous ideology many will say. Many will blame extremists, but the reality is Islam is the cause.

Originally posted by rustiswordz
I regularly hear of racial taunting, abuse and all round bad attitudes directed at white people.

Funny that, i dont see or hear anything about that. Never heard a muslim say anything racist to me or to anyone else.

Ive been regularly taunted walking down the street by these cowards who use their own language because they havent got the guts to use ours. (Ihave a white friend who speaks the lingo so i do know im telling the truth.)

Im not doubting your claims, but how do you know they were muslims??

Believe it or not i want peace, but these people seem to have a devine right to dominate the world. Hitler had the same dream as did communism.

Extremists do want Islam to dominate the world, but normal muslims who go to college with me, hang out and work with me do not.

[edit on 8-9-2004 by infinite]

Inciting racial hatred?:* Can (extreme) Islam ever coexist with 'the west'?

No, they can't. No group of people can live together with another group of people that have deep differences in foundamental subjects such as what is reality constitutes of. The best they can do is ignore its other, but deep down the enormous difference in mentality makes it absolutely difficult.

You say you are a muslim. For you, reality is different than for me. For you, reality is the Allah. For me, it is Jesus Christ. These beliefs are root beliefs of ours, i.e. they are the beliefs that all other beliefs are based on. We take these beliefs for granded, we don't question or object to them (speaking generally, of course). Since there is a conflict in such a basic level, we can't live together.

The only way we can live together is if you and I admist that all religions, including muslims and christianity are nothing more than human fiction. The only way we can live together is our spiritual awakening...but not in the way you have heard so far! we should wake up to the fact that we consist only of flesh, and there nothing else out there other than the material reality we experience...we should wake up to the fact that we are all the same (I mean the 100% of humans)! we all have the same needs, we eat and sleep and need care and love, we smile and we are sad etc...

We only have artificial divisions between us, sociological factors that keeps us from understanding, and much more importantly feeling, that we are all the same, no matter what religion, color and culture we have.

Of course some cultures make it much more difficult to wake up...Islam is one of them. It has a very strong grip on people, so strong in fact, that people can never question even the slightest of the 'truth' that Islams presents. Christianity was like that once...but it has developed much more tolerant in the last few centuries, unlike Islam.

HeyThatsMyBike, I have some questions for you. Im glad to see your not afraid to admitt your muslim. Are you of the Islamic faith as well? You made some points in your original post that made you sound like you are a westerner with western ideology. Since you are muslim, maybe you could be the first to help your people. what would you say to starting a movement that protest these acts of terrorism by your extriemest counterparts.

Which brings me to another question. Why have no muslims protested im masse or orginized into a front to rebuke these extriemest actions? Since your Muslim, maybe you could elaborate on this more for me and everyone else who asked this same question on this thread.