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Agnosticism: The intelligent default belief setting.

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Consider the following quote from South Park co creator Trey Parker “Basically ... out of all the ridiculous religion stories which are greatly, wonderfully ridiculous — the silliest one I've ever heard is, 'Yeah ... there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself and we're all just here just 'cause ... just 'cause'. That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever”


And this humorous and knowing quote makes intelligent sense. All right thinking people admit that they do not know all there is to know about life and nature. All exceptional thinkers leave their minds open enough to possibilities and to consider the immense nature of us and the universe to be simply too grand an accident to have simply nothing behind it.

Therefore, to be agnostic, is the intelligent thinkers default setting.




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


What good is it to think of possibilities, when you consider none of them. Agnostic is crossing mormonism, and atheism, you have people nocking on doors for no apparent reason!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


I would have to agree, it's the place between knowledge and belief. It's the critical thinking in between finding truth. To me agnosticism is like the person that never takes a side and is always debating each side while never coming to conclusion.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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I agree with that, and it is in no way shape or form, simply sitting on the scientific or religious fence. it goes beyond that.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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To me, entertaining the idea of a big man in the sky (or a single entity of any kind) who created everything and watches over us, only so, at some time in the future, he can punish us or reward us for how we have behaved.... DOESN'T sound intelligent to me.

Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible, but on the subject of religion, to entertain the idea of this story is right up there with entertaining the possibility that a blue fairy princess flies around at night making sure the trees all grow straight and tall... It's just something that makes no logical sense...

Each possibility has a weight in my mind. The odds that 9/11 was something our government participated in or knew about are pretty high... But the odds of the God story? Really pretty low in my mind.

I am an agnostic atheist. I don't KNOW, but I BELIEVE this thing the religious people believe in does not exist. And I don't attribute an "on the fence" position (Maybe there IS a big man who made us and watches us, judging our behavior and thoughts...) as intelligence in this particular matter.

I don't mean to say believers aren't intelligent, I just think if you've gone so far as to question the God story, you may want to keep asking questions to see if you really think it's AS possible for it to be true as it is to be a control mechanism originated to manipulate the populace .

.
edit on 12/9/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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I'm no genius, but I'm smart enough to know that we'll propably never know the answers.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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I believed in God and then some circumstances occurred that led me to being agnostic without even initially realizing it. While I was a believer, miraculous and very positive things happened to me. My life was the best it had ever been at the height of my spiritual exploration. It was truly a divine experience.

When I stopped believeing, to pursue facts and science, I became unhappy and discontent with existing. My relationships suffered. I quit having divine experiences, and I would say my life was pretty "normal". But actually I realized that my behavior was anything but normal. It isn't normal to sit around all day complaining and being closed minded. I wanted to be happy again, but no matter what I did, I couldn't.

Finally, I had a breakthrough. I saw God again. I became aware of the divine nature of our existence again. Finally, I felt less delusional and more at peace. I was happy and my relationships picked up where they left off.

I learned from the experience of agnosticism though. I learned that truth is just one of the most important aspects of existence. I also learned that science isn't the way to truth because the truth is within. The "kingdom of heaven" is within.

We have the power to create a divine world so that there is no mistake on the validity of divinity and the existence of God. All you have to do is be open and pursue love in every moment.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God. And to believe in God, you don't have to believe the crazy stories of the Bible. All you have to do is look within.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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I guess I fall into the Agnostic category. While I have my own beliefs about the afterlife, which I think there is in some form, i don't really think too much about God. To me, belief in the afterlife is a big leap in faith to begin with, but the belief in God is an even greater leap. It doesn't matter how much inductive or empirical reasoning you use, you won't come to a precise answer.
edit on 9-12-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by mandroids
 


If your title had read "Aetheism: The Intelligent default belief system I would have agreed. Agnosticism is a step in the right direction. You can always have a reasonable conversation about religion with agnostics. I don't really like ll these labels when it comes to religion, I feel we've all been pushed in to pigeon holing ourselves because too many faiths popped up and us outsiders had to have a name.

I honestly don't know how any human being can make them self belief in a god figure. I agree that agnostics are right to believe gods are unprovable, but I don't necessarily think intelligence is the driving force behind it; more likely just good old common sense?

Just seems like an automatic presumption that you shouldn't blindly follow something there is no evidence of. Common sense/intelligence/nibiru, it's a positive move regardless.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Is there any belief system that has followers that do not think they are more intelligent than everyone else?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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A truly scientific standpoint is to remain neutral until you have objective proof. Starting off with a belief then seeking information that backs that belief is not getting to the truth. Something I see both atheists and religious people do.

The wisest thing we can do is admit how little we actually know. Anything else is based in ego.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Agnostic here.

Not that I don't appreciate the thought, but the idea of a "default" position, the same one for the whole human race, just won't fly.

There is very little evidence about the question of God. Duh. Some people will argue that we should all treat the matter as adversarial, and so demand that some "burden of proof" be met. Other people have experiences that persuade them, but know that these private experiences cannot possibly persuade anybody else. Still other people look at Trey Parker's Universe, compare it with all those stories which Trey Parker and they have laughed at, and conclude that smart people should be deists or pantheists or whatever, and be done with it.

It's all good. We're all doing the best we can, on a very difficult problem. I think it's more important for practical purposes to remember that it is, for everybody, a matter of personal opinion, than to worry about what everybody's personal opinion ought to be.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 



Originally posted by smithjustinb
You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God.


I know. I didn't say anything about Christianity.




And to believe in God, you don't have to believe the crazy stories of the Bible. All you have to do is look within.


And this is where I fail in these discussions, I'm afraid. I was taught that God was a specific thing: A single, conscious entity, who deliberately created all that exists in our universe, including time. This entity dwells, not on the Earth, but somewhere outside ourselves, separate from us. He made the rules about the universe, specifically including a heavy emphasis on morals and certain ritual behaviors for us to observe, in order to one day, avoid a very unpleasant and fiery future, and instead, join with him wherever he is (let's call it "heaven") and live forever and ever, Amen.

If you mean something different than that when you say "god", then I'm at a loss, because if we each get to define the word as it relates to us in our lives, then it has millions of different meanings and really doesn't mean anything at all. If you define the word, it's possible I'd agree with you.


What you have stated sounds like a more 'spiritual' belief in something you call 'god', rather than a religious belief... Your quote sounds like you're talking more about something special and uniting in all of us... some spiritual energy or bonding agent or loving emotion... but that's not God, according to what I learned from my parents and my religious biblical training.

So, If I'm going to discard the bible as a credible source, why would I want to replace it with another belief system of someone else's imagination? Why use the terms that I used to use in religion when describing something different?

I absolutely agree with you about looking within. I have found some AMAZINGLY wonderful treasures, filled with joy and love and connection with others... but why would I call it "heaven" or "god" or any 'jargon' that comes from a source that I have already discounted? That's just confusing to me.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by PrimalRed
 
A zen buddhist would never claim that


None of us will ever know the true nature of reality and it's origins. The best we can manage is to chip away at it using science and reason. Religion of any sort is a kind of cowardice in my opinion. It requires far more courage to come to the realization that we are nothing more than the product of chance in an indifferent universe than it does to blindly take comfort in myths and lies.
edit on 9-12-2011 by Atzil321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Atzil321
 


I hope you'll help me to understand your meaning, as i don't have a handle on it yet.

You write that the true nature of reality is unknowable. You also write that we are nothing more than the product of chance in an indifferent universe. How can you know that? And if you say you were only noting that it took more courage to believe in that unknowable option than in another unknowable option, why not believe in the easier one?

I feel a little sad for you in your belief in the importance of using science to know the origins of reality. Not even scientists expect that. The current position is that there is an explanation for whatever happened a split second after the creation event, but no one has a clue how to find out what happened before. Using science for that problem is like using smell to appreciate music, it's just the wrong tool.

Living a religious belief is much harder than living an atheist one. Religious beliefs impose a right and wrong on you. Atheism lets you pick what your comfortable with. But I do grant you that there is a certain courage in both atheism and religious belief that a life of agnosticism will never have.

There is no more important question than "Is there a God?" Your entire life depends on the answer. To say "Maybe there is, maybe there isn't" and letting it go at that is a cowardly avoidance of a problem. If you are an agnostic, you should be working hard on coming up with an answer, not settled in some comfy sleep, dreaming life away.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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I consider myself agnostic but I would never call it the "Intelligent" option.
It's the same sort of misplaced arrogance you get from the athiests and god botherers.

I don't think it's very constructive.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by pazcat
 


I agree. Intelligence and belief system really have nothing to do with each other. They are unrelated.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


You write that the true nature of reality is unknowable.
I mean for this generation. As technology progresses it will allow us to delve ever deeper into understanding these fundamental questions. That has always been the case. We used to think the earth was flat and that we were the centre of the universe. 'Science' has shown us those beliefs were false, religion tried to reinforce the lies and actually burned men alive at the stake for suggesting otherwise.


You also write that we are nothing more than the product of chance in an indifferent universe. How can you know that?
Again science is the answer. There is a lot of evidence to back up what I said, and not a shred of evidence for anything supernatural at work.


I feel a little sad for you in your belief in the importance of using science
You should not feel sorry for me. My wonder and awe of the natural world and trying to understand its workings gives me far more inner peace and satisfaction than any religious nonsense ever could. It is the religious that deserve pity and maybe some therapy to release them from their self deluded madness.


Religious beliefs impose a right and wrong on you. Atheism lets you pick what your comfortable with.
This is just made up nonsense. Morals are not taught to us by a dusty old tome, they are hardwired into us as a necessity for our very survival as a species. There are far more religious people in jails around the world than there atheists 'google the figures'.





edit on 9-12-2011 by Atzil321 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2011 by Atzil321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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I wouldn't label myself anything.

I just believe we are missing something pretty important, and when we die, we will probably understand everything. Something to me is just fishy about this whole conscious thing... It just doesn't add up. When we die, i'm sure we will understand what Consciousness is.



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