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Drill Baby Drill? Why the Hell Not?

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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First off I hate that slogan, it brings up a Sarah Palin in my mind. However, I don't see why liberals hate using our own oil. I understand that the environmentalists want us to get off the stuff all together, and I support their efforts but we are nowhere near their in green technology to even thinking about a substitution for all the stuff that oil does. Electric cars have not even penetrated 1% of the automobile market, but yet they think society will completely get off of oil in 25 years or something like that?

Another problem with the environmentalists I see is that besides for the fact that the EPA is like their church, they are ok with various drilling in the Middle East, but they want to shut down every new oil process and oil refinery being developed here which will employ thousands of people and keep americans out of the land of terrorists or well people that pretty much hate us?

Recall that these same people believe that Global Warming will become irreversible by 2017 and are at this moment planning a global AGW tax that will cost the world upwards of $100 Billion...




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Hmmmm...don't mean to play Devil's advocate, but you make some sweeping generalizations about "liberals" and "environmentalists" (as if the terms were interchangeable). I find that lumping people in these terms is counterproductive.

I don't believe that most environmentalists consider the EPA their "church", especially after what the EPA did during the gulf oil spill.

I consider myself a bit of an environmentalist, in that I do feel we need to be good stewards of mother Earth. However, I also understand that the world currently runs on oil. I live in an area where, when the wind isn't blowing, I can smell VOCs from oil and natural gas wells. We receive an oil royalties check every month. So do I have a problem with domestic drilling? Not at all. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to give something up in order to get something else.

However, you should be aware that those "environmentalist liberals" you may read about online may be nothing more than a mental manipulation by the government. Domestic drilling on land here in the States gives the government only a tiny slice of the money pie, whereas drilling offshore gives the government a 30% cut of all crude extracted. Naturally the government isn't pushing domestic onshore drilling. The real money for Uncle Sam is offshore.

Just my 6 cents (adjusted for inflation).



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


Thanx for your answer. After getting through some of the useless things in your posts like the BS about calling people Liberals and environmentalists. Really? Why not? are they that ashamed of those titles? You called yourself an environmentalist.

Anyway, i get your point about the Middle East. Government indeed gets more power the more oil trades or take overs they make.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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For one thing, I doubt we'll ever be "completely" independent of fossil fuels. Wouldn't it be smart to save some for a couple hundred years down the road when its value is many times what it is now?

I say lets burn foreign oil while it's reasonable and plentiful and save ours till that runs out.

Meanwhile, developing technology for alternatives and increasing efficiency is the right path.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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I live about 6 blocks away from a oil refinery, the dump I drive by on the way into work every working smells worse than living by the refinery.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


We could get away from this, and all we have to do is bring back hemp it can be used in every way that oil does. Just my opinion.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 





Thanx for your answer. After getting through some of the useless things in your posts like the BS about calling people Liberals and environmentalists. Really? Why not? are they that ashamed of those titles? You called yourself an environmentalist.


The only BS is in your OP where you broadly generalize anyone you disagree with into being "liberals" and "environmentalists" while using the terms interchangeably, which they are not, border line trolling and from your pretty ill mannered response, it was probably intended that way.

The second post in here explains it quite well. There is also another factor to consider.

Ever play a real time strategy game like Star Craft or Age of Empires? how do you ensure victory in those games?

By finding all the resources on the map (earth) protecting those in your territory (USA) and completely using up all the external resources (middle east) before you have to tap into your own reserves. Deny the enemy the resources (enemy in this case, anyone but the US) while hoarding your local supply so when the world supply runs out, you are sitting on top of untapped oil reserves.

That's the other side to it.

We could efficiently be off oil now if the clean and renewable energy sources weren't patented by big oil then doomed to the dustbin. electric cars haven't penetrated much of the market for a few reasons:

Because the media, owned by big oil interests, continually tells you they suck.
Because the infrastructure is already in place for gas, not electric charging.

Well, the advancements in battery technology is about to provide electric cars with almost unlimited range which will make it quite hard to ignore.

Anyways, more oil is used in the production of plastic and other crap than is burnt in vehicles. Look around you, almost everything within your line of sight has plastic, and by extension, oil in it.

I'd really like to meet some of these "liberals" i keep hearing about on ATS, they seem to be all over the map according to guys like the OP here.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


Oil is not going anywere, unfortunatly. Look at all the things manufactured that are petroleum bassed. To make it a short list..everything. If it's not use as raw material it's used to power or lube up the machinery that make those products. As for trasportation, we have awesome technology that can get us off petroleum as a means of propulsion forever. But for some reason the patents for those said technologies have mostly been bought by big oil. Suprise suprise. As for global warming, I don't really know what to think about that. It seems to be something to have to do with our Sun more than pollution. But pollution is a major concern to me. We are destroying our planet, why not go green? Ok, windmills are a joke and most of the commercialy available technology is a total farce. Here are a few innovation to help make our planet a little greener if they're given a chance. Well, the Bloom Box is already on it's way I guess.

Bloom Box
DePalma N machine
Tesla Radiant Energy

OFF TOPIC
What the heck is a YouTube video number? Sorry for my ignorance but I would preffer to embed instead of just posting a link.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by phishyblankwaters
 


really we could get off oil now? Name me something that can make plastics as efficiently as oil?

While I think oil companies have indeed had a hand in the development and retardation of electric vehicles so that they can maintain a monopoly for years to come. Before they became mainstream (within the last couple of years) they did indeed suck! The only thing good about the 'prototypes' was that they were electric.

Electric cars are also luxury vehicles to many Americans. Nobody is going to by a brand new car in this economy. They are likely going to buy a used car at discounted prices and that's why no one is buying electric cars. They are seen as a luxury item!

When you said, there is more oil in plastic than there is in cars, that made your entire argument moot. Because as I have already stated, there is no suitable technology available to replace the oils in plastics.

Liberals and environmentalists are the ones who criticize the people who want to use our own oil and are the same ones who yell at the military and bush for causing "unnecessary wars". Liberals also sympathize with AGW. BTW, it's very hard not to generalize.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


Here are a few innovation to help make our planet a little greener if they're given a chance. Well, the Bloom Box is already on it's way I guess.

Bloom Box
DePalma N machine
Tesla Radiant Energy


Exactly those are some great technologies because they are proven to work! I applaud those efforts. Most of them are still pretty expensive to the everyday person though and might take years for them to be cheap enough for the middle class to afford.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by phishyblankwaters
 


really we could get off oil now? Name me something that can make plastics as efficiently as oil?

While I think oil companies have indeed had a hand in the development and retardation of electric vehicles so that they can maintain a monopoly for years to come. Before they became mainstream (within the last couple of years) they did indeed suck! The only thing good about the 'prototypes' was that they were electric.

Electric cars are also luxury vehicles to many Americans. Nobody is going to by a brand new car in this economy. They are likely going to buy a used car at discounted prices and that's why no one is buying electric cars. They are seen as a luxury item!

When you said, there is more oil in plastic than there is in cars, that made your entire argument moot. Because as I have already stated, there is no suitable technology available to replace the oils in plastics.

Liberals and environmentalists are the ones who criticize the people who want to use our own oil and are the same ones who yell at the military and bush for causing "unnecessary wars". Liberals also sympathize with AGW. BTW, it's very hard not to generalize.



I bought a new car two months ago rather than a used one. It was made financial sense for the make and model we wanted. Any other "wisdom" you'd like to impart all knowing one?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
First off I hate that slogan, it brings up a Sarah Palin in my mind. However, I don't see why liberals hate using our own oil.


I'll cut to the chase why I think the slogan is idiotic.

It is premised on the lie that we have enough oil in the USA to be self sufficient. We don't. The overwhelming majority of research and exploration has shown that we have about 21 Billion Barrells of reserves yet untapped.

The research that claims more is nearly always funded by...you guessed it, some oil company ready to make money.

USA Consumes about 22 Million Barrels per day. About 7 Billion Barrells per year. Those are the most conservative estimates I can find and most would argue higher.

That means after drilling everywhere we can across this great land with the inevitable spills, leaks and disasters as well as screwing up wildlife and national parks and reserves...we would be self sufficient for less than 3 years and then back to being entirely dependant on the Middle east with little in the way of a reserves in case they cut us off.

So why would people say "Drill baby Drill"? Because in the short-run....US companies will makes trillions of dollars in profits for that drilling.

That is why I find the idea stupid and corrupt. We can't be self sufficient off our own oil. It would only last a few years...but in the meanwhile Oil Barrons get rich effen up our remaining wild lands.

This is where I que people arguing that we have enough oil to be self-sufficient forever, and then they find links, and then I point out that the authors are funded by X, Y or Z.

Look at university research or non-partisan scientific research...not funded by oil Barrons.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


There are several cleaner, cheaper, and renewable energy sources that we have the technology to be using right now. We don't need oil, that should be history by now! We're bombarded by solar energy every single day, why not use it? We have a plant that can be grown in 90 days that produces a biodiesel fuel that releases 80% less fossil fuels than C02 and is entirely renewable, why aren't we using that?

In my opinion that's because alternative energy is being suppressed because it can't be used to rake in profits. If society wasn't so stupid, we would use the money that we use blowing things up and killing people to advance our scientific research and understanding of not just alternative fuels, but exploring the universe, curing diseases, and things like that. But I guess peope aren't at that level of intelligence yet. They can't just come together and unify for the cause of making the world an overall better place. Killing each other is just too important.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


I don't believe that we should have to drill anywhere, in national parks and in our treasured forests just for the sake of bringing crude that will last us no longer than a year or so. The America is beyond it's ability to satisfy our needs for fuel consumption. At the moment we product something like 5% of the world's crude oil, and yet we consume 25% of it in total. We'll inevitably need to move to alternatives as depleting even our oil reserves will not be productive to soliving our issue.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
First off I hate that slogan, it brings up a Sarah Palin in my mind.

I dont hate it because it reminds me of Sarah Palin possibly requesting me to Drill her (which I would love to)...'Drill Baby Drill'


On a sidenote, The entire oil industry outlook perhaps will change in 2012 just before the election for POTUS.

I just saw a thread last week on ATS about US export of Crude Oil was up. The pipeline project on hold might go through in 2012 (Canada to Oklahoma City).
edit on 9-12-2011 by hp1229 because: add content



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Duplicate
edit on 9-12-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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I'm with the others that state we should be good stewards of our ONLY home. There's no reason we're still powering the world with a 19th century discovery other than it is the one that the richest want to continue to get richer from and they control that market.

If we put the same amount of money into our gone w/o considerations where it goes defense budget towards new technologies we'd no longer be addicted to fossil fuels and I'd bet the Space Elevator would be completed, but that's another thread.

Derek



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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The US is waiting until the rest of the world is depleted first. Then they will control the world for every drop of oil offered. "My way or the stone age." There may be a few kinks in that plan.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 


The main kink in that plan being that we will have since given up dependence on crude oil long before that happens.

It was a great theory and plan once, however drilling technology advanced significantly as did refining what was once considered bad oil such as shale oil and oil sands.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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its obvious at this point in time thats its possible to remove oil from all aspects of our daily lives and move onto much more efficient energies, but there is a powerful invite only club of lobbying corps. that move money around to ensure that they keep making money entirely off production and distribution. which in turn funds every other decaying activity which earns more money to the boards and heads of each company who pay back into the oil comps. LOL. one big happy family of filthy rich people hoarding energy potentials..

we could force every car company to start manufacturing electric/solar only if we really wanted....



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