It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The ugly truth about Native American "shamans," "wisdom keepers" and "spiritual teachers"

page: 6
41
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by sylvie
- one guy thought he was the Hopi's Great White Brother, and the last I heard of him was that he was planning to go to Hopiland and "introduce" himself. Ha-ha, wonder what kind of reception he got...


That's funny. I also know a "Great White Brother." It would be interesting to know how many (if any) do go out to introduce themselves....




posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 04:10 PM
link   
Never really followed native american ways myself(reiki practitioner and rosicrucian here), but it's such a shame to see so many people profiting by defrauding these people. I'm of two minds on fees: People need to make a living, but, if it's exorbitant..thing is, your own senses should be able to help you weed out the phonies. we all have the same potential to manifest some rather amazing abilities..

edit on 10-12-2011 by LightsideAssassin because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2011 by LightsideAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 05:29 PM
link   
the only thing I wish to say is tthe only sacred pipe is held and watched over by orvillookinghorse in south dakota I followed the way of the pipe sweatlodge sundanc and vision quest you donot show up on weekend and learn this i put ten years of my life into it and have no regrets i have seen many wantabes that what the people i lived with called them and told me not to worry about them that they would revieve justice in its own time real people do not charge you for anything and will do thier utmost to send you on your way i was fortunate and was accepted i do not run lodges or teach peopple i just follow what i have been given and due the best i can peace hawk



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 05:43 PM
link   
Your thread was a real eye-opener. And I feel really aweful after seeing some of the living conditions of the people within the reserves. It is a great atrocity for such a great people to experience!

Thank you for taking the time to post your experiences. Flag and many stars from me.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 06:57 PM
link   
reply to post by sylvie
 

There was a sponser program , where you would be contacted by one of the families on Pine ridge and you would work with the parents to help with the childrens needs and birthday presents etc. However I have lost that information , however I do like to send coats and blankets and other supplies to one of the schools out there on pine ridge when I have the extra money as many of them go without electricity in the freezing cold. When I get in a better position in life myself I really hope to do much much more .

You have some interesting sites posted that I will bookmark ...Thanks!!



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 07:00 PM
link   
reply to post by sylvie
 


There are specific regulations about Native Americans.

First, one may say they are Native American by descent but they can only be part of a tribe if they hold tribal affiliation from a state or Federally recognized tribe. They have to follow the regulations of the tribe to claim that affiliation.

Second, to claim to be a shaman of a tribe, one must do so through the individual tribe. Even the usage of several objects, one must hold tribal affiliation. No one can have in their possession feathers of birds of prey unless they hold tribal affiliation from a Federally recognized tribe. No one can present any artwork that claims to be authentic Native American unless they hold tribal affiliation and no one can use certain drugs such as peyote for religious reasons unless they hold tribal affiliation.

Third, because the affiliation is set by the tribe, they must also be recognized by the state or Bureau of Indian Affairs to even allow affiliation. If the elders say she is not of their tribe, then she is not of their tribe, plain and simple.

I know all of this because I know many Native Americans from North Carolina, many who work a long time to prove the descend from the recognized tribes of North Carolina. My niece is half Lumbee, her father is full Lumbee and yet she cannot claim tribal affiliation until she is 18 and goes through the process to be affiliated. She can say she is Lumbee by descent, or Cherokee by descent, but it means nothing until she is affiliated and holds a tribal card. BTW, the Lumbee is state recognized and still waiting for Congress to pass the law to Federally recognize them.
www.lumbee.org...

The woman is not what she claims if she does not hold tribal affiliation. She cannot serve in any capacity as shaman of the tribe if she is not recognized.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 07:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by sylvie
- one guy thought he was the Hopi's Great White Brother, and the last I heard of him was that he was planning to go to Hopiland and "introduce" himself. Ha-ha, wonder what kind of reception he got...


That's funny. I also know a "Great White Brother." It would be interesting to know how many (if any) do go out to introduce themselves....



Exactly what kind of drugs are these people on? Most modern shamans get high alter the state of mind (whether chemically or just through self hypnosis).



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 07:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by old_god

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by sylvie
- one guy thought he was the Hopi's Great White Brother, and the last I heard of him was that he was planning to go to Hopiland and "introduce" himself. Ha-ha, wonder what kind of reception he got...


That's funny. I also know a "Great White Brother." It would be interesting to know how many (if any) do go out to introduce themselves....



Exactly what kind of drugs are these people on? Most modern shamans get high alter the state of mind (whether chemically or just through self hypnosis).


Pretty soon there will be a lady out there who will claim to be White Buffalo Woman.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 09:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by 1322hawk
the only thing I wish to say is tthe only sacred pipe is held and watched over by orvillookinghorse in south dakota I followed the way of the pipe sweatlodge sundanc and vision quest you donot show up on weekend and learn this i put ten years of my life into it and have no regrets i have seen many wantabes that what the people i lived with called them and told me not to worry about them that they would revieve justice in its own time real people do not charge you for anything and will do thier utmost to send you on your way i was fortunate and was accepted i do not run lodges or teach peopple i just follow what i have been given and due the best i can peace hawk


Very commendable, Hawk. You're very lucky to have received that kind of teaching.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 09:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by sylvie
 

There was a sponser program , where you would be contacted by one of the families on Pine ridge and you would work with the parents to help with the childrens needs and birthday presents etc. However I have lost that information , however I do like to send coats and blankets and other supplies to one of the schools out there on pine ridge when I have the extra money as many of them go without electricity in the freezing cold. When I get in a better position in life myself I really hope to do much much more .

You have some interesting sites posted that I will bookmark ...Thanks!!


Honestly, I'd much rather give money or items to people here in the US who suffer (and there are many) than send it to the poor people in Africa. Not to sound cold-hearted, but there is so much need here that I feel my charity is much better applied right here at home.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 09:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by old_god

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by sylvie
- one guy thought he was the Hopi's Great White Brother, and the last I heard of him was that he was planning to go to Hopiland and "introduce" himself. Ha-ha, wonder what kind of reception he got...


That's funny. I also know a "Great White Brother." It would be interesting to know how many (if any) do go out to introduce themselves....



Exactly what kind of drugs are these people on? Most modern shamans get high alter the state of mind (whether chemically or just through self hypnosis).


It's called pathological narcissism.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 09:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by old_god

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by sylvie
- one guy thought he was the Hopi's Great White Brother, and the last I heard of him was that he was planning to go to Hopiland and "introduce" himself. Ha-ha, wonder what kind of reception he got...


That's funny. I also know a "Great White Brother." It would be interesting to know how many (if any) do go out to introduce themselves....



Exactly what kind of drugs are these people on? Most modern shamans get high alter the state of mind (whether chemically or just through self hypnosis).


Pretty soon there will be a lady out there who will claim to be White Buffalo Woman.


Actually, I read in an article that Kiesha Crowther claims that too. I know a guy in Germany who thinks he's the reincarnation of Quetzalcoatl. Go figure.
edit on 10-12-2011 by sylvie because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 10:18 PM
link   
All this makes me wonder, I wonder if they believe the claims they make. Then they feel justified by taking so much money from people who want to better themselves (but are completely in the wrong path). Unless they have mental issues, how do theses frauds sleep at night knowing they've made thousands of dollars during that weekend by lying to people?

-Blue



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 12:26 PM
link   
the people who do this stuff some not all have total belief in what they say the student needs to watch and see what is really going on then make his choice i have never had to pay for any ceremony i think that is the first telltale even a love offering if you believe in the spirit then you know all your needs will be met not your wants those are different most real teachers are not interested in being noticewd and the real ones usually arent i dont know i havce been blessed all my life for my watchword is thy will be done and thank you so peace and love may god bless you all now especially with the doubts and fears arising there is only god



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 04:14 PM
link   
I would like to state I am a native american. The title of your thread is very misleading. I'm not sure if this is what you intended. I understand you have been taken advantage. However the title of your thread implies that all native american spiritual teachers are charlatans and frauds. This is very far from true. The spiritual people I know in my community would never stoop to that level. It is custom to provide a gift for their help but nothing you could not do without. They would also never turn a poor family away. They are our healers friends and family all in one.

My brother was spared a life in a mental institution because of our healer and our Midewiiwin lodge. The white doctors wanted to subdue his mind with pills and lock him away. The courts were actually surprised me and my family were there for his hearing and wanted to help him instead of lock him away and take his freedom. This is apparently the norm in america when a family member contracts mental illness. They lock them away without a second thought in a mental institution. Now he is living a normal life and happy once again. Not much of our culture has survived the brutal occupation of north america. I would like to preserve the integrity of what has stayed with my people.



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 09:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rezwar
I would like to state I am a native american. The title of your thread is very misleading. I'm not sure if this is what you intended. I understand you have been taken advantage. However the title of your thread implies that all native american spiritual teachers are charlatans and frauds. This is very far from true. The spiritual people I know in my community would never stoop to that level. It is custom to provide a gift for their help but nothing you could not do without. They would also never turn a poor family away. They are our healers friends and family all in one.

My brother was spared a life in a mental institution because of our healer and our Midewiiwin lodge. The white doctors wanted to subdue his mind with pills and lock him away. The courts were actually surprised me and my family were there for his hearing and wanted to help him instead of lock him away and take his freedom. This is apparently the norm in america when a family member contracts mental illness. They lock them away without a second thought in a mental institution. Now he is living a normal life and happy once again. Not much of our culture has survived the brutal occupation of north america. I would like to preserve the integrity of what has stayed with my people.




I believe the OP was trying to point out one person who is not Native American who claimed affiliation with a particular tribe, who said she was not part of the tribe,...that person was saying they were a Native American shaman of that tribe, even though she held no affiliation.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 09:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Rezwar
I would like to state I am a native american. The title of your thread is very misleading. I'm not sure if this is what you intended. I understand you have been taken advantage. However the title of your thread implies that all native american spiritual teachers are charlatans and frauds. This is very far from true. The spiritual people I know in my community would never stoop to that level. It is custom to provide a gift for their help but nothing you could not do without. They would also never turn a poor family away. They are our healers friends and family all in one.

My brother was spared a life in a mental institution because of our healer and our Midewiiwin lodge. The white doctors wanted to subdue his mind with pills and lock him away. The courts were actually surprised me and my family were there for his hearing and wanted to help him instead of lock him away and take his freedom. This is apparently the norm in america when a family member contracts mental illness. They lock them away without a second thought in a mental institution. Now he is living a normal life and happy once again. Not much of our culture has survived the brutal occupation of north america. I would like to preserve the integrity of what has stayed with my people.




Rezwar, thanks for your input, but I don't think the title is misleading. I'm sure no real native sage would call him- or herself "shaman" or "wisdom keeper," and maybe not even talk of him/herself as a "spiritual teacher."



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 11:02 AM
link   
What a fascinating and informative thread! Star and flag for you!



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 01:04 PM
link   
reply to post by sylvie
 


After reading your post I understood what point you were trying to get across, but like I said the title was misleading. I don't have to remind you most people's education of native americans comes from westerns and disney lol. So you can see why people could get the wrong idea based on the title of your thread. After seeing the title I thought you meant all healers. The news did the same thing you did when covering the story of the fake shaman whose greed and incompetence cost someone their life in a sweat lodge. The title was misleading, however upon watching the news they explained this was not what native american culture was about and that people hijacked our teachings for personal gain.

I would also like to address the people who think our religion is silly and fake. I have witnessed much in this world that would shake a persons confidence in their view of how the world actually works and what is possible. Just because you do not believe does not make it disappear out of existence. I could say I don't believe Obama exists, yet he will still be in the white house setting up the NWO. Science is proving through quantum mechanics that everything is indeed connected. One lump of matter may affect another lump of matter without any contact. Something native peoples have been trying to teach the world for quite some time. Every object and being in this universe is connected on the spiritual plane. They are calling it quantum physics because they cannot fully understand how it works. It does not obey the normal laws of physics.
In the future I would recommend visiting a native american reservation if you are looking for spiritual guidance. Bring some tobacco and an open mind. We have visitors on the reservation I live on from all over the world from peru to switzerland. The ones I have spoken with seem to have a distorted view of our culture upon arrival. We are understanding and politely correct their views with our knowledge. They take part in our language program and learn from the source when it comes to spiritual matters. If someone comes to you in a different country and want money chances are they do not represent us. It can take a good part of ones life to attain the responsibilities our healers have. This is done for a reason. Only after they have proven that they are responsible, of good moral character and understand, they are then shown the next step. This system tends to weed out the undesirables who would corrupt our teachings. I am a practicing member of the Midewiiwin Lodge if my credibility is questioned. I might know a thing or two about this subject. And no you do not have to pay this information I have provided is free of charge lol



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 01:09 PM
link   
thanks for this post, I'm always skeptical of these self proclaimed "shamans", why anyone would buy into this is beyond me but I guess to each their own.

All of this ancient knowledge, at some point, comes from the same place. Whether it is an First Nations Medicine man, Peruvian Shaman or Celtic Druid, its all the same. These rituals and practices our are birth right but they must be entered into with respect and humility, ESPECIALLY if it is not your own culture!!

Anyone who offers this to you in a weekend course for money is a liar and charlatan, they more of them that get exposed the better! Good work on exposing these frauds.

Much Peace!



new topics

top topics



 
41
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join