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The ugly truth about Native American "shamans," "wisdom keepers" and "spiritual teachers"

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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Really interesting thread.

If there is one thing this world has an excess of it's people cunning and motivated enough to prey on those who are looking for something spiritual in their life. And, sadly, lying in wait are people like this who offer (but rarely deliver) nirvana on earth and the answers to everything. That is, as long as you pay handsomely for it. I feel sorry for those who are vulnerable and fall for the song and dance of these fake 'shaman' types.

The Native American cultures are so varied and interesting I hope that maybe after people realise fakes like this person are just that, that they might then take the time to read into and understand the true nature of Native American history. It is interesting (albeit tragic) enough without having to turn it into something it isn't and never was.

Peace




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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I am as well Cherokee. Whatever the basis for her rhetoric, I found the 25 min video interesting, factually sound, and not far off base in any way.

If she's not legit....I believe her message is sound, and well-intended.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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i kinda look native american, i need to go to germany to start my own cult and call my self, hard-shlong...



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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The only reason people can masquerade as teachers of native american spirituality is because of the sheer lack of order and structure within the Native American community.

They didn't even have a written language, and their spiritual traditions, beautiful, but modest, were handed down from teacher to student. so who can really say what is and isn't authentic??

My study of this aspect of religion is mainly in the Sioux, Iroquois and Cherokee, so i can't speak in regard to the Hopi or any of the southern American tribes, who took peyote (which most Sioux look down upon, mind you) and other hallucinogens to peer into the other realm....But from what I know, it is a fairly primitive form of religion, akin to what you would find in Middle of Africa, or Indonesia. Although, I will say that the Natives of the central and North of North America, i.e. around the Dakotas, Lakotas, Pacific west coast, and the great lakes, have a very simple and moral belief system. In that way, they are vastly more evolved than the aforementioned barbarians of Africa or Indonesians.

But back to the point: they're vulnerable, and crooked new age teachers take advantage of them.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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There are plenty of hucksters within the tribes too. It's like any other society. Some of them pose as Chiefs but they are just sleazy politicians at heart. It's gotten worse and worse with the casino racket. I'm afraid the mafia has taken over. I know full bloods who were so beautiful and pure until they got a hold of some of that gambling action. It will destroy the tribes eventually.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by sylvie
 





Women should be extremely wary of any " teacher" who claims sex is part of an alleged "ceremony." Most of these FRAUDULENT operators have been caught making complete fantasies of what many whites WISH natives were like. Another way to say it is that they are outright liars and hoaxers. Some, like Carlos Castaneda, were exposed as long as three decades ago.

I'm not trying to derail your thread to a different person, I just wanted too throw this out there.

In no way am I sticking up for the man Carlos Castaneda, and definitely not his later years. But you cant just throw that in there like that. There is a whole lot more too his story over a rather large period. Also to note he still has works of non-fiction written under anthropology I'm going to go with calling him a hoax something that is still up for debate.

Nor am I wanting to debate if he is or not.

But it is a good read, many books on that subject alone. Oh how the wealth spreads. And nearly as many copycats.

I do not disagree with the article for the most part. I just thought throwing Carlos in there seemed a bit different in my mind.

wiki/Carlos_Castaneda_bibliography

The critical works list is pretty long haha.


Aesop



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by sylvie
I'm starting this thread because I (again!) found an admiring thread on this forum about Kiesha Crowther ("Little Grandmother") with her "Tribe of Many Colors." This woman is a fraud and a liar.


no surprise there, the only surprise is that anyone thought she was real!

here is a thread on fake mayan "elders"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A fool and there money....



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by sylvie
 


Like you, I was appalled to find out that this woman was not legit. I actually found this out months ago, but still I was an avid follower of her videos. I even sat and listened to her 3 hour ceremony that they did last year, and was enthralled about what happened. When I found out she was a fraud, I felt sick to my stomach. I could rip that woman's head off at this point, but that wouldn't be very spiritual of me now would it? Shame on her.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 05:05 AM
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I would really love to thank you for bringing attention to this topic, as it is something very near and dear to me. You are much more eloquent and articulate than my drunken ranting attempts
I am happy to see that someone is passionate about the subject and willing to "carry the torch" , as I have somewhat mistakenly assumed that most people didn't really care.


It upsets me to no end to see that so many Native Americans live in such poverty and terrible conditions while these "plastic shamans" , Mr or Mrs "rainbow twinkle crow ",come in like vampires to exploit them to line their pockets.



Good work !! I'm glad to see you've touched some people !





posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Wow...this thread and the forum you linked is very informative...perhaps too much to grasp at first..

Thanks



Further in her contacts with the group members she has realized that you cannot criticize Kiesha, the leader, if you do so you get threatened of being sued, you cannot ask questions because then you get thrown out/banned from the group. And then you get to be called “dark ones”. It’s a terrible polarization of an elite group that she (Kiesha Crowther)has created, like a master race that is going to survive 2012 but those who have criticized her, mostly Native Americans, are going to be cleansed away 2012.

Read more: www.newagefraud.org...


Wow...


Hi Autumn, I was banned from TOMC forum for saying there was inaccuracies in one of her videos or in other words "Lies". I knew I would be banned.
Any way the TOMC forum is officially down


All that effort to delay the truth from surfacing...


the story was built up as a way to teach new age teachings and spark interest in those who love Indian people and their ways. There was a discussion about this when a creative team yes a creative team got together. I was hired and sat in on those early meetings. Kiesha is a regular person who has new age beliefs but has no drop of Indian blood. Jennifer told me on many occasions that the Indian people can go X themselves. They do not? care about those people at all."
Angelfish300

Read more: www.newagefraud.org...


Nuff said...
edit on 10-12-2011 by Comet2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by sylvie

I have a parrot that looks more native American than her. She looks like a member of the wannabee tribe. I dont know which is more disturbing, what a fraud she is, or that there are people out there gullible enough to fall for it. If she is familiar with the concept of Karma, she should know that what she is doing will lay some on her of the really bad variety. If you use faux spirituality to make money, that's probably the most evil thing you can do.
edit on 10-12-2011 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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So, big surprise, you have people willing to lie and endanger the lives of others to make a profit?



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


No its not a big surprise, the fact that so many people are stupid enough to fall for it is a big surprise.But then again, we keep electing republicans.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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there's 1 in every culture, I have to look and see what their credentials are... some good some bad some liars. very interesting to read.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Stryc9nine
i kinda look native american, i need to go to germany to start my own cult and call my self, hard-shlong...


Yay for Twinkies! (That's what N.A.s call wannabe Indians.) I found this on an N.A. page on Twinkies -- easy DIY instructions how to create your own Indian name (sorry, lost the link):


All Twinkies absolutely must have a fake Indian name. It's a must. This can be easily achieved by choosing two or more words from any column of the following table:

Animals - Wolf, Buffalo, Bear, Coyote
Colors - Blue, Red, Grey, Lavender
Cliches - Medicine, Shining, Proud, Weaver
Birds - Eagle, Owl, Hawk, Raven
Plants - Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, Thyme
Relationship Indicators - Brother/Sister, Gramma/Grampa, Clan Mother, Chief
Misc - Moon, Morning Star, Thunder, Rainbow

For instance, Gramma Lavender Rainbow Owl Weaver or Chief Grey Morning Star Rosemary Medicine, or Sister Shining Blue Moon Buffalo Parsley would make really good Twinkie names. Now all you have to do is get yourself set up to accept Visa and MasterCard and you're on the road to spiritual fulfillment!



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by kazanoom
There are plenty of hucksters within the tribes too. It's like any other society. Some of them pose as Chiefs but they are just sleazy politicians at heart. It's gotten worse and worse with the casino racket. I'm afraid the mafia has taken over. I know full bloods who were so beautiful and pure until they got a hold of some of that gambling action. It will destroy the tribes eventually.


Yes, from what I've read, the Bureau of Indian Affairs is the most corrupt government organization (and with all the corruption already going on, that's saying something!), and many of the clans' "spokespeople" who make deals for giving up their land to mining companies and such don't really speak for the majority of their people. Well, it's kinda like what happens with Washington and the rest of us, in a smaller version.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aesop
reply to post by sylvie
 





Women should be extremely wary of any " teacher" who claims sex is part of an alleged "ceremony." Most of these FRAUDULENT operators have been caught making complete fantasies of what many whites WISH natives were like. Another way to say it is that they are outright liars and hoaxers. Some, like Carlos Castaneda, were exposed as long as three decades ago.

I'm not trying to derail your thread to a different person, I just wanted too throw this out there.

In no way am I sticking up for the man Carlos Castaneda, and definitely not his later years. But you cant just throw that in there like that. There is a whole lot more too his story over a rather large period. Also to note he still has works of non-fiction written under anthropology I'm going to go with calling him a hoax something that is still up for debate.

Nor am I wanting to debate if he is or not.

But it is a good read, many books on that subject alone. Oh how the wealth spreads. And nearly as many copycats.

I do not disagree with the article for the most part. I just thought throwing Carlos in there seemed a bit different in my mind.

wiki/Carlos_Castaneda_bibliography

The critical works list is pretty long haha.


Aesop



I just quoted the intro from the NAFPS site, that's all, and Castaneda was mentioned in there. Personally, I love his books.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by WiindWalker
reply to post by sylvie
 


Like you, I was appalled to find out that this woman was not legit. I actually found this out months ago, but still I was an avid follower of her videos. I even sat and listened to her 3 hour ceremony that they did last year, and was enthralled about what happened. When I found out she was a fraud, I felt sick to my stomach. I could rip that woman's head off at this point, but that wouldn't be very spiritual of me now would it? Shame on her.


Are you talking about Kiesha Crowther or Dhyani Ywahoo?



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by sylvie
 


yes, the bia are criminals, but like mentioned, people get themselves into stuff.
reminds me of the indian casinos. mostly all run by white corps, some pueblos got into deals where they don't bring in much.
others held out for better deals and now benefit their own.
schools, clinics, monthly checks for members etc..............



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by paleorchid13
I would really love to thank you for bringing attention to this topic, as it is something very near and dear to me. You are much more eloquent and articulate than my drunken ranting attempts
I am happy to see that someone is passionate about the subject and willing to "carry the torch" , as I have somewhat mistakenly assumed that most people didn't really care.


It upsets me to no end to see that so many Native Americans live in such poverty and terrible conditions while these "plastic shamans" , Mr or Mrs "rainbow twinkle crow ",come in like vampires to exploit them to line their pockets.



Good work !! I'm glad to see you've touched some people !




Thank you, paleorchid. Speaking of which, if anyone here is REALLY interested in doing something for Native Americans, I did some searching yesterday and found this website.

The Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota is one of the biggest -- if not THE biggest -- and the people there could really use some help. The page the above link goes to has lists of things that are needed, and you can either buy them online and have them sent there, or buy them yourself and mail them.

I kinda like giving actual THINGS instead of just donating money (especially because I'm very wary of charities, whose overhead is often so vast that the money you give is used to pay the administrators rather than going to the needy people the charity allegedly works for.

In this case, however, all the stuff you donate goes directly to the reservation, with no middlemen. I love that; that way I know I'm not wasting my money. They need books for the schools there, from elementary to high school; there's a Christmas wish list of kids of different ages; you can donate stuff to the elderly (like warm blankets and such); you can send them homemade things (sewed, knit, crocheted), and much, much more.

Last night I already bought some things and had them mailed there. I'm planning on making this a habit. BTW, as a "manifestation queen," I can assure you: TITHING WORKS! I make it a point that whenever I get a bonus or some unexpected money from somewhere, I give some to a good cause, or spend it directly on people I know or meet who are less fortunate. It will come back to you tenfold, I guarantee it. Good karma, too.




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