Is US Minimum Wage really $7.25?, page 30


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 83 times


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:47 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol



Text We all have worked with an idiot... they do nothing & skirt the work the are supposed to be doing ( please no management jokes) Or worse when we try to buy something or get help... same one ... they leave you wondering how they got the job being so stupid... These idiots I am referring to... well in the minimum wage system the are rewarded for a short time with equality and drain the rest and pull them down...


Again,you claim to refrain from personal attacks yet you refer to people as idiots?

Nice.

Some people are not as superior as you I guess.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:50 PM by amatrine
Originally posted by flexy123
Originally posted by theovermensch
Originally posted by flexy123
Originally posted by theovermensch
I read that the Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour.





It *IS* Bizarro world compared to Europe...people are living off credit and getting more and more into debt. If they get sick they cant afford health care, whole families can go bankrupt if something unforeseen might happen and they don't have insurance, of course.
The only one profiting....guess who...is BANKS. The more people in debt, the more the banks will profit.


Even if you do have insurance!!! I was just in the hospital with pnemonia. I have to have a new antibiotic, nothing else works. The cost of this antibiotic is $2500. WE have a $5,000 deductible. The insurance will not pay to
hospitalize me , and I have to get this at home. So I had to buy HALF the pills, with my mortgage payment,
and car payment, Christmas money, and all savings. Gone for 10 pills, but if I did not take them, I would die.
No joke. I am taking half the dose because I could not afford the whole dose and am hoping to get well. The doctor was very rude to me as well.

My husband makes maye 30k a year now. He used to m ake 50 but where he works no longer gives hours.
They cut them, and they also cut vacation pay. You have to use your holiday pay and vacation pay in hours not cash, and then they cut the hours so you have to use it up to make up the difference. My husband has not had a vacation in three years and has been there for 15 years. He has top senority.

We have crappy health insurance. I am too ill to work.
I am in the state of AZ. As of FEB last year AZ STOPPED giving state assistance of any kind to new applicants.
They have cut off old ones. My neighbors who are mentally retarded and being taken care off, have all been cut off even though they can not take care of themselves or work. That is how so many mentally ill end up the streets here.

Anyway a lot of different topics but they all come together. ... When the husband used to work and the wife stayed at home, the cost of living, was adjusted to that. Then woman started working, and soon it was expected and the economy adjusted, so that now you HAVE to have two people working to make it.

It really hurts when you have someone like me to ill to work, not enough work credits due to long time illness.
My husband has to support the entire family, and we can not get any kind of assistance. It is HARD.
It is almost broke up our marriage hard. When I am going on an ambulance and watching my husband upset because he is going to miss a day of work, instead of being at my side while in a health crisis hurts.
I understand, but it hurts none the less...

The corruption is horrible. The Corps are making law and it is ruining every ones way of life. If it has not hit you yet , IT WILL. I too am so tired of living in such a corrupt place. The people who prosper seems are the ones
who have cash on had,.. like drug dealers,.. etc. .

Like the crap about not being able to buy light bulbs , brought to you buy corporations , Not being able to gamble online, Corporations. Not being able to resell your own property thanks to the new VERO laws.
I almost got sued by Boise for trying to sell my own set of head phones I bought from them on ebay.

It is all so sick....I am so depressed. Eventually the system will fall because no one will have money to buy ANY goods...

But hey, lets just " Keep on Keeping on" as the commercial brainwashes us every time we see it on tv,



This is just INSANE.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:50 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol




Text My idea I offer is way to combat this..... Do you feel the person that just screwed up what you asked them to do, delivered poor craftsmanship should be paid the agreed upon sum (minimum wage) or not? they didnt do the work right.... humor me....


Yes they should be paid.

What do we do with disabled people? Put them in the corner?
We need to see that all have value.
We need to have empathy for our fellow man.
What would you do? Throw a party while he starved. It would make you very happy to see some incompetent, inferior "idiot" starve wouldnt it?



reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 09:59 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol




Text I will have that thread done a little later and I invite you personally to destroy it the best you can....


Het I am flattered with all the interest.

Have you been looking at my hot picture on my profile? I am sensing some tension.

I dont try to "destroy threads" but if thats what you are into I guess I could make an effort.

Would you like it if I add you as a rival?

I can if you want.

Might not be the best idea though because you seem pretty obssessed with me as it is.

Anyway,thankyou for all the trouble you went to to paint me as a "red under the bed".

Please continue if you are bored.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:14 PM by theovermensch
Originally posted by steppenwolf86
reply to post by theovermensch


So all of your posts seem to add up to advocating some kind of communist or socialist structure, and I point out how that has fared in the past, and you call me an idiot.

I said what I said because I LIVE HERE. Not because I have Polish blood, but because I SEE IT EVERY DAY. No matter how high minded your ideals, people have tried to impliment them and failed miserably. I am all for change, but the change you seem to want has already been attempted, and I was trying to make you aware of the actual results.

If I view the results of the grand Marxist experiment first hand, talk to the people who lived under it, and simply post what I have observed, how is that related at all to McCarthyism? Granted, there were some plusses:

Everyone had a job, though the currency was so inflated they could not afford much. I am sure co2 emissions were less, due to the shortage of Automobiles and people who could afford them. Everyone had a 20 square meter flat to live in, though it was rather cramped.
Also, are you trying to up your post count? You reply with 2 lines to every single post... What gives?
Oh, and if there is a salary cap, how and why do you limit the income of a small business owner? For that matter, how can you cap the income of a large business? Yes, salaries of CEO's can seem excessive, but much of that value lies in stock. If you cap a salary, do you cap all other income? So in theory then, all profits after a certain point would have to be reinvested in the company... But is it not that way already in most cases? So if you cap the income on a small business owner, then theoretically the excess must either be re-invested in the company, and the company will expand, or the excess income is taxed. But if this keeps happening, won't it create more mega corporations, which to you are a drain on society?

YOUR LOGIC NEEDS WORK.

Why don't you come back with something other than insults. Calling ME arrogant? Where do you get off?
edit on 13-12-2011 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-12-2011 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)


I didnt call you an idiot. I said you should get over yourself.
Maybe you feel like an idiot. If I called you an idiot Im sorry.
I still think you should get over yourself.
I really see no point arguing with a corporatist.
I dont care about my post count,thats pathetic and telling that you would suggest such a thing. You like stars and flags dont you steppenwolf? I am not here for friends.

Not only am I a socialist,I am a minimalist. I actually hope people have less after the rebellion.

I dont care about Americans or the West. I care about countries that are kept down by the US through imperialism. You Americans are greedy and selfish. America is the centre of the Death Star. If things in the world are to change it must start in America.

The whole thing must burn. Only then can earth rise from the ashes like a pheonix.

All your capialist speak is obselete. You are living in the past. Capitalism is dead. We are moving on.

Russia never had true communism so its a terrible example of communism. Also,how can you judge communism that has been attempted in a capitalist empire? Of course it will fail. We live in a global capitalist empire. Only when we have global socialism can it be judged.

And this way it comes.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:28 PM by Equidae
reply to post by theovermensch


It is impossible to have 'true' communism due to human nature. We are all inherently greedy, and that cannot be changed. Marx based his ideology on economic and psychological ideas that were later proven false. Russia was not the only country to fail at communism: Cuba, the Soviet satellite states, Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea are all examples of how communism does not work. China is the only one that could be considered successful, and that is after they made the switch to a totalitarian capitalist oligarchy that is communist is name only.

I am a strong advocate of social justice, and of the government's responsibility to maintain an economic safety net for the poor; however, using communism to reach that would be as successful as using a purely capitalist method.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:36 PM by theovermensch

Text It is impossible to have 'true' communism due to human nature. We are all inherently greedy, and that cannot be changed.
reply to post by Equidae


Maybe we should all just kill ourselves then.

What is the point?

I have more faith in humanity.

I dont hate myself.

And why are you talking about communism?


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:37 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by Equidae




Text Marx based his ideology on economic and psychological ideas that were later proven false.


Really. You are an expert on Marx?

Hoes capitalism working out for you?

Marx predicted this.

I bet you know less about Marx than you think you do.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:39 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by Equidae




Text Cuba, the Soviet satellite states, Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea are all examples of how communism does not work.


They are all examples of how Imperialism does not work and is demonic.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:41 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by Equidae




Text I am a strong advocate of social justice, and of the government's responsibility to maintain an economic safety net for the poor; however, using communism to reach that would be as successful as using a purely capitalist method.


When do I advocate a purely communist method.

What is your agenda?


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 10:42 PM by theovermensch
Originally posted by Equidae
reply to post by theovermensch


It is impossible to have 'true' communism due to human nature. We are all inherently greedy, and that cannot be changed. Marx based his ideology on economic and psychological ideas that were later proven false. Russia was not the only country to fail at communism: Cuba, the Soviet satellite states, Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea are all examples of how communism does not work. China is the only one that could be considered successful, and that is after they made the switch to a totalitarian capitalist oligarchy that is communist is name only.

I am a strong advocate of social justice, and of the government's responsibility to maintain an economic safety net for the poor; however, using communism to reach that would be as successful as using a purely capitalist method.


And again what do you know of communism? Of Marx? What have you read.
Are you on google search right now?


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:05 PM by theovermensch
Originally posted by Misoir


The United States minimum wage has now risen to the same level (adjusted for 2009 $) as 1984. Between 1968 and 1990 the minimum wage had steadily dropped from its peak at just over $10 an hour at the end of Lyndon Johnson’s second term as President. Under Richard Nixon it dropped considerably from $10 to ~$7.25 then went back up under Carter fluctuating between $8-9 an hour until Ronald Reagan became President when it steadily dropped from about $8.30 to just below $6 at the end of his Presidency.

Why did the minimum wage drop so much under Ronald Reagan? He had argued, even in the debates with Carter, that the unemployment crisis was being exacerbated, especially among young blacks, by the high minimum wage which may require a higher wage being paid than the job is actually worth (according to the market) thus less jobs were available. This same general theory was tied into the policies of Neoliberalism which he brought into government, same with the policies of Thatcher (UK), and have not been abandoned by the ‘Conservatives’ since but has in fact been adopted by the ‘Third Way’, New Democrats (Clinton, Gore, Obama) and New Labour (Blair, Brown).

The late ‘70s stagflation allowed the monetarists on the Right to rise up against the Bretton Woods System of Keynesian economics which had been established to plan the economy in a way that would not permit a return of the 1930s Depression. But these policies were observed as failures, mostly due to the high spending of the Johnson and Nixon administrations (Great Society + Viet Nam War) which led Nixon to removing the Dollar from a gold backing causing mass inflation tied in with the oil crisis, this destroyed the Keynesian system. In Great Britain after the ‘Winter of Discontent’ the Dries rose up in the Tory Party to gain control under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher. This same battle was played out in the US between Reagan and Bush, Sr.

What does this have to do with the minimum wage? Well by arguing that we need jobs which were being stopped by the high minimum wage they lowered the minimum wage which allowed for new jobs to be created except this time they were from the services sector. Meanwhile the Neoliberal policies advocated the opening of borders for free-trade which encouraged industry to move abroad (also add in the high tax, regulations of the Keynesian era which had not been removed yet). Combined this allowed for more jobs to be created for lower pay and less economic security while exporting our manufacturing overseas without everyone noticing because they had jobs outside of this once crucial industry.

But the problem then became immigration which fueled the crisis. Since industry was being exported, encouraged by the ideology of free-trade, it also encouraged the importing of cheap foreign labor which undermines native labor costs. So in order for people to compete with these low-skilled, low-paid immigrants who were taking the jobs domestically, combined with them taking the jobs which had been exported, the Neoliberals were able to again sit at the table and argue that we should let minimum wage either stagnate our cut it further so that more jobs could be created.

The Neoliberals openly encouraged the mass immigration from the third world and the outsourcing of jobs to the third world all for the benefit of big business while having the right-wing cheer on free-trade (protectionism/fair trade is evil) and having the left-wing cheer on mass immigration (closed borders/quota system is evil). Big business got rich, the politicians got rich, we became poorer and sharp divisions were created in our nations based on the resentment towards immigrants who could not be assimilated. It was a win-win for the elite, a lose-lose for the workers.

edit on 12/9/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)


I am worried about all you obnoxious neocon parrots.

Would you all be able to move on with your lives if we blamed noe-liberals?

Just because you are a conservative does not mean you need to be obnoxious. This guy isnt.

I know that he would not be in favour of socialism but he does not lower himself to parrot like behaviour. He does not attack me and insult me. He gives his opinion. And it seems to be a pretty informed one. Actually, I dont claim to know the guys politics, but he does seem to be a type of conservative.

And his opinion is that liberals are to blame for a low minimum wage. I actually quoted this post to end the thread when I thought it was dead,. I didnt expect all the late interest from obnoxious neocons.

This guy is even carefull not to insult the working poor. He includes things like (according to the market) when discussing a persons worth.

Basically he says liberals let too many imigrate to the US. I get sense that this guy still has faith in conservatives, in capitalism.

I dont.

More and more do not.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:09 PM by ripcontrol
reply to post by theovermensch


it seems you have quite a sense of humor...


Each time you make the attacks more and more personal... You seem to be very afraid of something... each response seems to generate more and more negativity from you...


I find it interesting that you have strayed from the main point of the thread... I never insulted you... you got upset over a different idea then yours...


Because I do not believe is taking from people who work for something to give to people who have not...

In fact I refuse and fight it every way I can...

Socialist - communist - corporate - imperialist.... blah blah...


All your labels are just that labels... methods you set up in an attempt to gain control....

Then you use high emotional value descriptive as adjectives in an attempt to dominate a conversation.... A beta male tactic I have observed in many naturalistic observations....

Next you are to go back through and separate this post more in attempt to sound more intelligent then you actually are....

To answer as to why I keep arguing with you is this... I have already won... I have made you waste your time answering my responses... you see Your profile was quite easily observable on this matter...

As you go on here I expect you to

Continue arguing with others...
tossing out strawman arguments
All the while irritating the mods...

Each time you post theovermensch you will be annoying the mods...
as you observe this effect you will start complaining about unfairness when you get hit with T and C violations

youll keep arguing with the mods till


good bye...





You see I never insulted you... I offered you peace and you attacked again... I put out ideas radically different then what you know and you assumed I meant something specifically related to what you have heard others say..

"Oh this man means this..."

you never asked what I am thinking you assumed...


The thread was over min wage...

Again you got your feathers in a ruffle over being told

YOUR WRONG

your strawman claims are leap of faulty logic on the disabled....

fact-- the last major world power socialist killed millions of disabled people... not to mention gays ...


The problem with socialism and minimum wage is that failures occur quickly and over time... Corruption is the main problem with socialism....

that is how your arguments are laced with logic... when in fact....

Your chain of minimum wage to socialism is faulty...

Here let me help you out a little here being that you are new to ATS & still wet behind the ears...


Your Argument...


You see the Corporations have avoided paying there share for years... a corporation is structured specifically to avoid responsibility of any type... look up any form of business and see the tax strategies each employs

This is why the government must step in and ensure that the corporations maintain there social responsibility to the economic environments they find themselves in...

this includes ensuring that each of the lowest level employees receive more then enough to survive and get ahead....

So each man and corporation must pay only what amounts to a small part of what they earn to support those in need... Our society can do no less for the less fortunate... If we do this properly with low corruption, children dont go hungry, get proper medical and dental, the elderly get meds, and the truly handicapped live productive lives

Minimum wage is a necessity to keep the crooks in the system honest... It provides a check to the corporations.. and forces each person to be paid a living salary

Unions: even though this is outside the scope of the thread I agree that it is part of the discussion... Lets be real , we each know that even in the best of socialist government fraud and waste are part of human nature... corruption needs a check from business and government...

Unions representing the working person provide protection and in fact lessen the burden society pays in government revenue on the earlier mentioned basic necessary services...

Ripcontrol, with all due respect I disagree with your viewpoint. The numbers say that besides being necessary, each person if healthy and well feed will produce more.. basic business.. every dollar business gives its people goes pretty much right back into the economy generating thousands more in rebound effects....

The other danger is that we have to do this to prevent communicable diseases.... It enables us to avoid the spread of epidemics to pandemics.....

I believe minimum wage encourages honest among employers over labors value.

The best example of when it fails... look how they deal with migrant workers... case in point to what I believe are views...

a sub note is the poor wait staffs...

Well ripcontrol I await your counter point...


Did I miss anything in your view point on minimum wage?
edit on 13-12-2011 by ripcontrol because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:15 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol



Text Your Argument... You see the Corporations have avoided paying there share for years... a corporation is structured specifically to avoid responsibility of any type... look up any form of business and see the tax strategies each employs This is why the government must step in and ensure that the corporations maintain there social responsibility to the economic environments they find themselves in... this includes ensuring that each of the lowest level employees receive more then enough to survive and get ahead.... So each man and corporation must pay only what amounts to a small part of what they earn to support those in need... Our society can do no less for the less fortunate... If we do this properly with low corruption, children dont go hungry, get proper medical and dental, the elderly get meds, and the truly handicapped live productive lives Minimum wage is a necessity to keep the crooks in the system honest... It provides a check to the corporations.. and forces each person to be paid a living salary Unions: even though this is outside the scope of the thread I agree that it is part of the discussion... Lets be real , we each know that even in the best of socialist government fraud and waste are part of human nature... corruption needs a check from business and government... Unions representing the working person provide protection and in fact lessen the burden society pays in government revenue on the earlier mentioned basic necessary services... Ripcontrol, with all due respect I disagree with your viewpoint. The numbers say that besides being necessary, each person if healthy and well feed will produce more.. basic business.. every dollar business gives its people goes pretty much right back into the economy generating thousands more in rebound effects.... The other danger is that we have to do this to prevent communicable diseases.... It enables us to avoid the spread of epidemics to pandemics..... I believe minimum wage encourages honest among employers over labors value. The best example of when it fails... look how they deal with migrant workers... case in point to what I believe are views... a sub note is the poor wait staffs... Well ripcontrol I await your counter point... Did I miss anything in your view point on minimum wage?


Oh my god. I didnt write that. How is it my argument?

You are really having trouble.


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:16 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol


And you think calling me a "beta male" is not an insult?

That is one of many.

I am no beta male.

# I could not be more alpha.

I am strong,attractive,intelligent,charasmatic,confident and I have no fear. I am master morality.

You get that dont you?

That is why you knew to call me beta would be the perfect insult.

I am overmensch. I am no beta. You are thinking of the limp wristed liberals you are used to wasting your time with.

Alpha.

Neocons are beta. They are scared little rats.

edit on 13-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo



reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:17 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol



Text In fact I refuse and fight it every way I can... Socialist - communist - corporate - imperialist.... blah blah...


Blah blah indeed.

You dont have any real knowledge of these things do you?


reply posted on 13-12-2011 @ 11:24 PM by theovermensch
reply to post by ripcontrol




Text Corruption is the main problem with socialism....


Yeah capitalism is free of corruption hey?

Join a protest genius.
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