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At what point does modern America cease to be a Constitutional Republic and become an Empire?

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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This might turn out to be an epic ramble of nonsense, or an eye opener, provoking unfound thoughts,
either way, look and think beyond this thread and you will start to see a couple of the puzzle pieces fall together.


An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture

America and Israel are 2 states in this new "empire" imo, who have had a heavy hand in many recent wars.

you could think of the two nations as two states within a larger unseen entity the same way you see Oregon and California as acting within the United States.
the American population for the most part does not want to be in foreign wars, or labeled as war mongerers,
as reality sets in as to what Americans are actually doing around the world, the Empire idea sets in naturally.

there we see the beginnings of the divide. the US government and it's people.


The term empire derives from the Latin imperium (power, authority). Politically, an empire is a geographically extensive group of states and peoples (ethnic groups) united and ruled either by a monarch (emperor, empress) or an oligarchy.



Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία, oligarkhía) is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with an elite class distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, commercial, and/or military legitimacy.


Corporations, and the so-called international elites have more say in domestic American affairs these days it seems. The politicians are simply there to pretend that there is order or some kind of power structure working in favour of average Americans imo.


An imperial political structure is established and maintained in two ways:

(i) as a territorial empire of direct conquest and control with force (direct, physical action to compel the emperor’s goals),

and

(ii) as a coercive, hegemonic empire of indirect conquest and control with power (the perception that the emperor can physically enforce his desired goals)

(i)We see Afghanistan, the removal of the Taliban, reconstruction contracts and a survey of a collection of minerals worth up to a trillion, and Iraq for the obvious oil and territorial purposes, removal of dictator and local opposition.
Then came Lebenon and Georgia where we fought proxy wars with Iran's proxy Hezbollah and Russia.
Now we see the Arab spring which is a painfully obvious "Covert" operation through social media to bring down Libya and Iran/Syria, China/NorthKorea and Russia.
With tactical strikes in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, I am beginning to see a trend here. Towards Global Empire.

(ii) reminds me of how Obama says he is not an appeaser by killing Bin laden. or al-Alwaki enough said

in short, I started this thread mostly just to get a discussion going on how a lot of people can still justify calling America a Republic or democracy when it seems so desperately close to entering Empire status in the history books.

edit on 9-12-2011 by yourmaker because: spelling error




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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It is a Global Imperial Empire.

The only ones not under the Empire are Iran,North Korea and a few others.

Its Imperialism


Text "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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New York is technically the empire state, has the Empire State Building, and houses the UN.

Can't understand where you get your logic from.

/end sarcasm




edit on 9-12-2011 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by yourmaker
 

When we take off our rose colored glasses and read the history of our founding fathers we can clearly see that the roots of empire existed in the hearts and minds of many of the founders.

The founding fathers were not homogenous in their motivations and plans for the continent. While some were interested in the rights of man others were interested in power for themselves and their progeny. For them this continent was a huge sandbox in which to play. And their plans did no just end with the west coast.

Some, very early in the republic could understand that with the vast resources available to them, conquering the continent would only be a stepping stone from which to launch an empire that would reach across the pacific to Asia and turn that ocean into an American fishing hole.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by yourmaker
 

When we take off our rose colored glasses and read the history of our founding fathers we can clearly see that the roots of empire existed in the hearts and minds of many of the founders.

The founding fathers were not homogenous in their motivations and plans for the continent. While some were interested in the rights of man others were interested in power for themselves and their progeny. For them this continent was a huge sandbox in which to play. And their plans did no just end with the west coast.

Some, very early in the republic could understand that with the vast resources available to them, conquering the continent would only be a stepping stone from which to launch an empire that would reach across the pacific to Asia and turn that ocean into an American fishing hole.


If it started with some of the founders, howcome the true oathkeepers of the country that would come along later, haven't worked 110% to maintain the constitution up to the standards of what many Americans believe it should be in the modern times? or is that where money comes in and buys everyones opinions for the greater American cause?

edit on 9-12-2011 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 02:24 AM
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Yes, our empire is not just in the middle east. We have done some very intense empire-building in Latin America - "our back yard." We got so pissed at Cuba because they allied with the Soviets and allowed the Soviets to encroach on our empire, and we took over so many Latin American countries during the Cold War to expand our empire and keep the Soviets away. This is honestly not surprising. We have over 1000 military bases around the world and think we have the power to "police" the world. We are an empire, no doubt about it. Even though we think we're a republic, we are definitely controlled by an oligarchy and definitely attempt to expand our influence around the world with each move we make.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by yourmaker
 

When we take off our rose colored glasses and read the history of our founding fathers we can clearly see that the roots of empire existed in the hearts and minds of many of the founders.



If it started with some of the founders, howcome the true oathkeepers of the country that would come along later, haven't worked 110% to maintain the constitution up to the standards of what many Americans believe it should be in the modern times? or is that where money comes in and buys everyones opinions for the greater American cause?

edit on 9-12-2011 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)
I don't know about true oath keepers. It's my understanding that the constitution was and has always been a compromise between powers in this country, not a holy script writ in stone like so many wish to see it.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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I ask this again now that time has passed since and we have seen the changes in the direction towards this.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 09:27 PM
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A slight rephrase: At what point *did* it pass from republic to empire?

Depends on your definitions. Should we examine the locations where US troops are on the ground? Do we define empire as the US initiation of a global tax on the world using the dollar as the reserve currency?

We started collecting vassal states in the late 1800's with Hawaii and the Philippines. It's grown to the point where US troops are on 900 bases in 130 countries according to Ron Paul a few years back. The dollar became the reserve currency after WW2.

Either way, examination of the facts reveals that this far-flung regime is out of control now. Their machinations have brought this country to the brink of ruin and it's likely that Hannibal will be at the gates this year ...... metaphorically speaking.



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