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I Present My Case That We Are In Hell

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posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Hmm! interesting you present a good case. But I think I will pass by this hell.

What else you got?

Third.




posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Laokin

Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by Laokin

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by blocula
 


and your case is equally comparable to walking in a room only looking down and telling everyone there is no ceiling. Also, why is hell getting better? We are not living in the worst times of our existence, not even close.


Isn't this subjective?

I would say we are for every advancement comes with it's own series of back pedaling.

Holy crusade = 3,000,000 deaths.

WW2 = 63,000,000 deaths.

How can you say we aren't living in the worst of times? The next world war will be approximate or larger in death toll if history is anything to go by.

I don't know if you've been watching lately, but we are gearing up for number three. 6 of the worlds greatest super powers are about to get it on over Iran....

Not to mention, the world has been in a perpetual state of war since the crusades and well before them too... If we tallied the ongoing body count of just the US in the last 100 years it would trump any existing figure known to man.
edit on 9-12-2011 by Laokin because: (no reason given)



It's not death toll. It death toll by violence. There is a huge difference there. I can list hundreds of other subjects, however -- I was just making a quick point. Also, Ted Talks? Really?????

Most guys who speak at Ted, are totalitarians/fascists, et al, in disguise.


I also argue that the standard of living hasn't increased at all. Ever. For those that had the highest standard of living still have the highest standard of living as well as the inverse. With the increase in population there are more people at the lowest base line then ever.

Sure, as time advances things like "Fire" were invented. I wouldn't say this makes the standard of living better relative to the rest of the population.

I.E.

Poor people are poor, poor people are struggling. Poor people have always struggled and will almost always struggle. Just because they have "T.V." doesn't some how make their struggle easier. The "standard" of living is not what you have, but what you have in relevance to what everyone else has.
edit on 10-12-2011 by Laokin because: (no reason given)


Ok, so dismissing TED talks because you think most speaking are totalitarian/fascists? Now I get to say, Really?

So what you are saying is that because there is a larger disparity of wealth among people, the standard of living has not and cannot increase? That's just false. Overtime, the standard of living can increase in comparison to the previous standard, NOT the inverse quality of living for the current standard's era.

again, about your comment to poor people. It depends upon your comparison of the standard of poor. If you compare it to the current highest quality there will always be a large disparity, however, if you compare that standard to the previous standard, you will see a dramatic increase overtime, and that is what I'm arguing.

It is the simple fact that overtime, more luxuries are taken for granted than the previous generation. Seriously, you said that because fire was "invented" it doesn't make the standard of living better for everyone else? How about when the word spreads about how everyone can make fire? Heat is taken for granted now a days, clean water is taken for granted, electricity is taken for granted, reading is taken for granted, paved roads, high speed travel. Go ask any homeless person in America or an other developed country how much unspoiled food they find in the garbage behind restaurants. Their standard of living has increased because there is such an excess of resources that people take for granted and even give away, which is why a homeless man nowadays can make around $200 a day panhandling in a populated city.

Please stop forgetting the advancement in medical treatment, simple antibiotics that are available, condoms! Pretty much all methods of hygiene. You don't need "wealth" for these things. Everyone's standard of living has increased overtime thanks to the technicians, scientists, engineers, Doctors, that have made these discoveries for the sake of mankind to benefit, not a select few.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Sounds like you want to be a spirit of white light standing in a perfect Eden on a sandy beach next to a river of water, the purist of pure.

Only problem is, your afraid your soul will taint the white light and your afraid that you are crushing the grains of sand under your feet. You can't walk through the grass because its a living thing and you would hurt it as it is done on Earth.

Getting into the water is out of the question because your spirit might pollute the pure waters. What a dilemma!

Sounds like Eden is hell.

Whats left?



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by Awoken4Ever
reply to post by grubblesnert
 


In fact, don't talk to us about it, explain it to them that life is what they make of it:



Amazes me what comes out of the mouths of people that were given everything, and they actually think it is what they made of it...LOL

Why?...Why??? do people keep having doomed babies ^^^ in these kinds of wretched countries...WHY???????

Question should be - If they know the hellish conditions they live in, why do they bring another innocent life into the world?

Making choices results in positive and negative consequences. Freewill and individualism go hand and hand. Now, you know why Obama's push against individualism is flawed. If more and more people think there are no consequences, the personal choices they make in life will result in more hellish conditions. Imagine trying to train someone who is complacent, for they have relied on the government all their lives. Once people start relying on other individuals, their survival rate becomes extremely weakened. Now, imagine if the government system collapsed, and everyone who relied upon it lost government assistance. Since they relied on the government for everything, they are unable to survive when left alone.

Irony.

edit on 12/10/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)
What i think is going on here,why theres so many massive amounts of doomed before their even delivered babies being born inside these wretched hell swept 3rd world nations is that the women,for the most part,are being raped by the dominating men who just dont give a damn and then the women have no available abortion to turn to...look at hollywood and then look at the above picture and behold their sickening polarities,for they are the opposites of two extremes, lots of money and no money at all.The above photo and 10,000 more just like it is living proof of a living hell called earth...
edit on 10-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 05:08 AM
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I think you are making assumptions on why they bring these babies into the world based off your ideology. There could be so many factors that we wouldn't understand because we haven't walked in their shoes. Some of the things people eat in certain countries, including rat, repulse me, but to them, it's normal and delicious. I also don't believe it is that simple to say there is positive and negative reactions to our choices. How would that justify that man in Connecticut who's wife and 2 daughters were raped while he had to listened to it, then his houses was burnt to the ground while his children were alive in it. Here is a man that was extremely successful, did everything right in life with education, career, family, etc...and lost it in the most gruesome way possible. How is that because of his actions?

That picture I put up, those folks are beyond poor, which means beyond education, any type of real culture, or can think in any way that we can. Why they bring them into the world, I have no idea because I haven't walked in their shoes, nor pretend I understand. You can say the same thing about people in the ghetto living off of nothing. Why do they keep having babies?? Can't afford a means for birth control? Don't care? More government money a month? Who knows.

However, if you simplify it down to life is about what you make of it, that is if no outside forces penetrate what you make of it, then freewill can persist. How can you tell someone in the concentration camps they had freewill?

I completely think what you "choose" to see in life, is what you are going to see. If you only see the good in life, then you look through a vale, and only see the good. If you are raised in a world of hate, anger, violence, and all the horrible things life has to offer, you can't just choose one day to see good and it is there. You can't tell those children in the picture to stop being hungry, you have freewill, now go see all the good in the world. You are overlooking behavioral psychology and what that truly means, and further what impact it has on your psyche.

They did a study on a litter of kittens many years ago. They took kittens at birth, and split them up into two groups. One group was raised inside a white box, with black horizontal lines painted throughout. The other group was raised in a white box with vertical lines painted all over it. The cats had no interaction with anything on the outside world, and all they knew was the world which what they were raised in.

They let the, now cats. out of the box and let them into the outside world. They set up obstacles all over the place made of either horizontal objects or vertical objects. The cats that were raised in the horizontal lined box kept bumping into all the objects that were vertical, and vice versa with the other group of cats. Since they were raised only seeing things one way, they were never able to see things that went in the opposite direction.

You all are talking about things like freewill, positive versus negative reinforcement, and think it is because you can turn these things off and on like a light switch. Life doesn't work that way unless someone taught you how to turn the switch. Everything you know in your head has been given to you through learning experience, through education, culture, or another's experiences passed down to you. The only reason you can even talk is because someone taught you how to. Someone also taught you about right and wrong, good and bad, freewill (at least your understanding of what that is, which IMO you have little to none of in the big picture of life). You have chosen to see life as good, so that is what you see.

If life was so good, then why is crime, greed, materialism, hate, and evil spreading so much faster than good is? My point I said earlier in the thread, is that you haven't walked in others shoes to understand what it is you think you understand. You have things like internet, TV, books, education, etc...to expand your thinking and constantly morph it into something else. You are one of the lucky ones. The good things you are choosing to see is because that is what you are being told to think or are allowed to think. There is nothing I can say to get you to understand that fact. While you are sitting here right now reading this, on your nice computer, in your warm house, with your full belly, there are thousands of people being brutally taken advantage of right at this moment.

Evil is spreading through the world at an incredible rate. When I use the word evil, I don't mean God vs. Evil kind of thing. I mean human evil. It is compounding faster than you can even imagine throughout our world. It is being taught to the next generation at an alarming rate. You just can't see it because your thinking won't allow you to see it.

Continued...



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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Does it mean that a starving child never laughs? Does it mean that one's problems are worse than others? No, because it is all relative. My problems to me are just as serious to me, as your problems are to you, as those starving kids are to them. It's all relative in that capacity. Your most horrible experience in your world, is just as powerful to you, as the kid who watched his mother get brutally raped and slaughtered. You can only go by what you have experienced in to compare the level of bad in your life.

IMO, we are in hell. Not because of what I have been through, or how bad my problems are, but because I can see how bad the evil is spreading. I can choose to stick my head in the sand and tell myself everything is alright...but it is not. I am getting older, I have been through some experiences that most people haven't, but it is what I see in the world that I say this, not based off my own problems. It's getting so much worse than what you are choosing to look at. It breaks my heart every time I hear another story, see it on the news, or walk down my street and witness it first hand.

It's not because all I see is gloom, because I do see the wonderful things you guys have mentioned in the thread, and I have experienced them too. I have to look for these things just to keep my sanity and hope for society. However, what I choose to see and how I choose to act, is not going to change what is happening all around us. People don't know how bad it truly is in other places of the world, and even in our own country. Some communities are absolutely wonderful, but they have shielded themselves off from what is really happening out there.

Evil is spreading like a virus out of control. I won't even argue about this, because if you can't see it yet, then you are just not awake! It's flooding every single thing we do from the work place, to our communities, our schools, our kids, our government, and even our online sites. It is invading and attacking everything. Maybe you or your own community hasn't been infected by it "yet," but I promise you, it is coming to a theater near you soon.

"Currently" I think we are living in some type of hell. Can it be a Heaven one day? Sure it could. However, I don't think as a society in general, we are capable "at our current status" to ever make that happen. We have the ability to change EVERYTHING, including ourselves, but we choose not to because we keep hoping these problems will go away, or the next guy will take care of it for us.

I wish that I had the strength to see the good on a consistent basis like you all do. Each time I walk down to the supermarket and buy the guy on the corner a sandwich, or walk to my local park and see all the people living out of their cars that weren't there just a couple of years ago, or watch the gangs terrorize the streets in the way they do, but I just can't ignore it anymore. Then I turn on the news and see what is happening with TPTB and I realize there really is no hope at all. Greed is at every single level, including in each one of us, and until we figure out how to fix that, we will continue to live in hell! The greatest thing about greed is the more you obtain, the more it comforts you and tells you everything is OK.

I have said this before and I will say it again...even with all the brilliant minds we have on this planet, and then if you want to take into account the advanced civilizations out there in the Universe (if you believe in that sort of thing), and even our religious leaders from different sects that have walked the earth at one time or another, not a single entity has been able to establish peace anywhere throughout history. If you think for a second there is nothing wrong with this world after looking at that picture of the kids that I put up, because you find joy in laughter, love, a breeze, or whatever else helps you stick your head in the sand, then I have to say, there is something wrong with this world terribly. We can solve all the problems of this world overnight, if people would stop putting all the money and focus into how to kill one another! If you redirect that energy, power, and finances for the greater cause, the problem is solved. We can't do it as an individual, as a community, or as a nation, it has to be done collectively by EVERYONE.

Your idea of freewill is so tainted by what was given to you and taught to you. You don't have freewill over a single thing, they just let you think you do. If you had freewill, how come you can't educate your children in anyway you want? Of course, your argument is that you have home schooling now. If that was the case, then why do the children still need to be tested upon a core of what they have to know? If you have freewill, why do you need a license to drive? In fact, why do you need a permit to even leave your own country? Freewill is just a gift that was given to you and made you believe you have it, but you don't



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 05:16 AM
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but you don't have freewill at all. You just have a set of choices you can make and you think that is what freewill is. Freewill is something that is imaginary, and what helps us destroy one another. Freewill doesn't work in the sense of community. You can't have both, only one or the other. All there is in life is trying to find a balance to those two things, and freewill is winning in the end, it's just not your freewill that is winning.

Sorry friends, as much as I have love and peace in my heart, I can never look at this world the way many of you have stated in the thread. It's just too painful for me to see it any other way. For that, I think we might be in hell, or maybe an in between place to say the most.



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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To a machosist wouldnt ever lasting suffering an pain be there idea of heaven?



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


You are in hell. Someone can easily make an identical post with the opposite idea and list just as many reasons why. It's your perception that has brought you to your conclusion. Choose to see that we are in a heaven, and that will be so.



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Swim2themoon
 
I'll mention one word and then please explain to me something heavenly about it and how it could exist in a heavenly place...Auschwitz...



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by Awoken4Ever
 
These third world people,they have eyes,they have ears,they have a brain,they know how much they themselves suffered,they know their baby is doomed from birth,whats up with that? so they just keep on mindlessly and thoughtlessly spitting out kid after kid after kid and dont give a damn? or is it because they feel better about themselves with plenty of others around to suffer right along with them? birds of a feather flock together,they live in a male controlled and male dominated society,men who are cold and ruthless and who have no negative reprecussions installed into their society that they have to deal with and answer to as they aimlessly and ruthlessly impregnate dominated women again and again and again...

I know a lot of college graduates who are very educated and very stupid,because their parents bought their way into college,or they got a free ride through college because they were jocks,i personally know a guy,a princeton graduate,who was accepted into that prestigious school based on nothing but his ability to throw a javelin and he was carried along with very low grades that were not even at a passing level,but only made to appear passing and better than they actually were,because all that school really cared about was their sports reputation,that guy right now is around 55 yrs old and hes makes $9 dollars an hour opening boxes,so much for education...


edit on 12-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Did you experience Auschwitz? If so, I'm sorry, you lived in a hell for that period of your life. I'm going to assume you never experienced it though, therefore, YOU aren't living in that hell. You can't take others experiences and claim them as your own.



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Swim2themoon
 
auschwitz is auschwitz,wether i experienced it or not and just because nothing really bad is happening to me,at the moment,doesnt change the fact that the majority of people in this fallen world are suffering terribly from lack of proper food,shelter and clothing and are being torn asunder by war and genocide.I do not and will not walk around seeing only what i want to see through rose colored glasses and make believe i'm an island unto myself..."i'm okay so who cares about all the other suckers who are poor,war torn and dying from hunger" ...thats not how i am and thats not the arrogant high and mighty self centered additude that i live with myself with,like most people with blinders on do...


edit on 11-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


There is a million things I can say, but something is telling me it's just not worth it for the most part.

I will be glad to make a note that we might as well throw statistics out the window when it comes to education because "you know a guy..." When was the last time you saw a career $9 dollar an hour worker become a CEO at 55? LOL

You're absolutely right, they should fight the urge to procreate which is a rudimentary element in the make up of mankind because of their suffering and lack of protection. Maybe we should neuter them and save the world some problems. Well said sir


I am assuming you know a lot of things that will make the world a better place...if they would just listen to you.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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I hate to see it when people post something like this, and it's even worse when they actually say it. Not the list of inconveniences, but the idea that they are proof that we are in hell.

First off, pleasure doesn't exist without agony, so it could be said that the OP's list of "bad" things are simply the bitter spices that accentuate the sweet taste of life and it's unending pleasures.

Secondly, the whole idea of hell is centered around the idea of punishment, and to truly be punished you must know what you did to cause said punishment.. Knowing that you caused your own agony is indeed the point of punishment.



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by RatoAstuto
I hate to see it when people post something like this, and it's even worse when they actually say it. Not the list of inconveniences, but the idea that they are proof that we are in hell.

First off, pleasure doesn't exist without agony, so it could be said that the OP's list of "bad" things are simply the bitter spices that accentuate the sweet taste of life and it's unending pleasures.

Secondly, the whole idea of hell is centered around the idea of punishment, and to truly be punished you must know what you did to cause said punishment.. Knowing that you caused your own agony is indeed the point of punishment.
pleasure doesnt exist without pain...what??? thats not at all true,people who say that have been conditioned into accepting the hellish state of our world as something that has to be,thats just not true at all,a persons body thats pain free,is,pain free,it doesnt hurt,so why should it have to hurt? because the world tries to make it hurt?...

oh i see,if i never felt pain then i wouldnt know what pleasure means...if thats true...then it must be okay for millions of fat americans to pig out on junk food all day and what they cant stuff into their pie holes gets whipped into the trash....because thay know that millions of other people are dying of starvation...



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Actually, yes, it is perfectly fine for those Americans (and anyone of any other nationality) to pig out all day when others starve. That is there own expression of free will. Now, if others choose to exile those people who act in such a selfish manner then that is karma in action, is it not? Or at least justice. But yes, those people may act as they wish without fear of harm so long as they don't directly harm others, because they can and most people won't harm them to end the practice.

But back to the point; yes, I meant that we don't know pleasure as what we know it now without pain as a reference point. If pain didn't exist we would simply think of pleasure as nothing more than normal and only ever be content, never joyful, never happy.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by RatoAstuto
 
If humanity never learns how to build emotional bridges to span the bottomless void of class seperation,if humanity never realizes no one is better than anyone else,if humanity never understands that fear and hate must be replaced with loving expressions of compassion and empathy,we will never be released from hell...


edit on 16-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Sure, we should do all those things, but they don't have much to do with our discussion on pleasure existing without pain



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by RatoAstuto
 
Pain is pressure on a nerve that signals our brains telling us theres something wrong with our body.But unfortunately,there are two origins of pain,one source arising from sickness,or being physically wounded and the other source is pain purposefully inflicted upon another person.Both of them result resulting in hell on earth for countless people...

I dont consider emotional pain real pain,like what most people feel when a loved one dies.The more emotional trauma someone feels from any situation,the more emotionally fragile and unstable that person already was before whatever tragedy occured.Thats why some weak minded people emotionally collapse and transform into blithering idiots over the slightest thing,while others are able to endure all sorts of hardships without reverting back into a little child,a never able to fully mature adults defense mechanism,usually displayed by women much more than men...


edit on 17-12-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



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