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EU fails to agree treaty - intergovernmental agreement instead. 2 tier Europe a reality

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


Also have to add in the huge amounts of cash that the UK contributes to the EU - we always meet our payments unlike pretty much other country from South EU (France included).

I am massively in favour of this action by Cameron and the UK. At the same time, i share some of the trepidations of others that this may eventually bite us in the behind.

I still think that longer term we will have to join the fiscal union but i personally favour one with the Nordic States and Germany - this won't happen now (possibly a Nordic one but without Germany) as we share work ethic and values with these nations.

My main worry is that by isolation ourselves in this action, where some co-operation with the Eurozone states would have been greatly appreciated, they may return the favour in future when we are in need.

I also do not fully agree that this a win win situation for us and the Eurozone states as a large part of Merkel and Sarkozy's plans revolved around clawing cash from the City of London in various new taxes. Now we have vetoed this and the City is exempt from the EU grabs, this shortfall will have to accounted for in other ways, meaning more hardships (potentially) within Eurozone states.

Still, on the whole, it is about time that a UK leader finally listened to the country regarding Europe.




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


Here, here, and wishing we had the stones, in our leaders her in the US....

Rule Britainia.....

God save the queen, and right on Mr. Prime Minister....



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


That is the problem though.

Past and present Governments will not allow the UK People to have a say. They do not think we as UK Citizens are intelligent enough to make our own minds up. I also find it funny politicians have said any changes will, have to be decided by the British People. Which will not happen, Parliament will decide wither or not to let us have a say.

As one European MP has said, this is the first in the exit door of the UK Leaving the EU as a whole.

edit on 9-12-2011 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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Hahaha


Well done Cameron!!

Now im just waiting for the day I will very very happily have to pay the required amount to get anything EU off my passport!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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"2 Tier Europe" is not a reality NOW, it was already in the past.
UK never had the Euro together with some other countries. Europe was already "split" into those countries who had the Euro and those who didn't.

Merkel/Sarkosky said they don't *need* to consider the UK and made it clear that if the talks with UK fail they will do it with the 17 remaining states. NO ONE is or was ever dependent on the UK and the future of the Euro-Zone is NOT depending on the UK!
edit on 9-12-2011 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


I actually think that under the Tories there is a lot of potential for a referendum. I genuinely believe that if there was a Tory majority (and therefore no coalition) we would already have a date for a referendum.

Behind the scenes there is large scale agreement within the Tories that a referendum should be the way forward. Depending upon the developments of the next few weeks, i wouldn't be surprised to this issue get pushed more and more from the back benches.

Of course, i may be wrong!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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Whilst I agree we still haven't sorted out our banking industry, it is for us in the UK to decide fiscal policy, not the EU. The more power that's taken away from member Countrries, the more it eats away at the democratic rights to control their own destiny as a soveriegn state.

In hindsight, we shouldn't of bothered liberating France from the Germans during WW2.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


How long do we have to wait for one?

Oh yes not until after 2015 if we don't get with a another Hurricane Bawbag like yesterday.


The Tories will have to gain a overall majority to be able to pose a referendum. Off course Labour and the Liberals will oppose any referendum on the EU.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:40 AM
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Sorry to go slightly off topic but as this is a conspiracy site..........

I have found myself in the last few months defending Cameron et all more and more on here, the world's premier conspiracy site (one of a handful doing the defending at times it seems).

Last night i got home to discover 2 tax rebates in my name!
Happy days indeed.

Is this possibly a reward from TPTB? If so, i don't want to rock the boat by complaining.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by JonoEnglish
 


Hence the comment I made with regards to the UK standing alone out of Europe before. We have done it once, what makes people think we cannot do it again.

The UK is one of Europes Biggest Trading Partners, if they want to cut their noses off to spite their faces then so be it. France do not come to us crying when everything fails.

And just remember one thing. Dont threaten our Country either. The UK can bite back also.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by JonoEnglish
 





“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

A man with a big beard once said.

edit on 9-12-2011 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by JonoEnglish
 


“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.” A man with a big beard once said.



Father Christmas?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:43 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


The interesting thing about electoral reform that was proposed highlighted several things recently (and this can be verified by the figures) - since the 2nd world war, England has been predominently conservative. Whilst there are regional variations in party support, overall if just England was voting then every government since 1945 would have been Conservative!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by JonoEnglish
 


France do not come to us crying when everything fails.

And just remember one thing. Dont threaten our Country either. The UK can bite back also.


Totally agree.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


While the rest of the UK went Labour. Well It has all changed now has it now. There hardly any tories in Scotland, A few in Wales. Most in England.

Always thought during all the elections, when thatcher was in power. Scotland rejected them while England embraced them.

Funny how things work out.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Such a huge regional variation is slightly strange isn't it? Just shows what i have always known, us English are god's chosen and clearly all knowing!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:15 AM
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Yeah, it's all nice fine good and heart warming that they've come to this agreement, but I'm more than a tad puzzled.

The warm and fuzzy is all over their agreement to talk some more?????



After 10 hours of talks, all 17 members of the euro zone and six countries that aspire to join resolved to negotiate a new agreement alongside the EU treaty with a tougher deficit and debt regime to insulate the euro zone against the debt crisis.





"It's going to be the basis for a good fiscal compact and more discipline in economic policy in the euro area members," Draghi said. "We came to conclusions that will have to be fleshed out more in the coming days."


Haven't they been 'talking' for two years to deal with this inability to stop spending money like sailiors on shore leave? It would appear, at least to me, this is another step in the hey, we're working on it so we're gonna talk some more direction.



Another thing that puzzles me is how they agreed for the EU nations to cough up 200,000,000,000 Euro in loans to the IMF to help deal with this debt crisis . . . .




It also was agreed that EU countries would provide up to 200 billion euros in bilateral loans to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to help it tackle the crisis, with 150 billion euros of the total coming from the euro zone countries.


WHAT?????????

They've been barfing platitudes at eachother and anyone else who cares to listen for two years because they're so far in the hole, they can't see daylight . . . and their semi-collective answer is to throw more debt at it?

If the Eurozone countries are so far in debt, where are they going to get the money to loan to the IMF, which the IMF needs to loan to countries to deal with excessive debt.

OK.

These countries are going to borrow money to lend to the IMF who will lend it back to them to deal with the fact that they borrowed too much money in the past.

Sound familiar.

Same old, same old, same old.

But, guess who's gonna benefit from this?????

Those who get to, in steriod-induced fashion, write the fake money created by interest on their balanace sheets therefore getting a very few more wealth at the expense of the poor bastards on the street who's infrastructure will eventuall crumble, social programs that will become inadequate, and basic standard of living is going to be chopped to ratcrap.

Welcome to Mrs. Hitler's and her little French sidekick's Make the Rich Richer program.

And the markets will zoom to holy high heaven today because the folks on Wall Street will realize they stand to benefit the most on this and will undoubtedly be sporting major wood over this extension of their greed infested system.

Source for this bullcrap



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Laurauk
 


I actually think that under the Tories there is a lot of potential for a referendum. I genuinely believe that if there was a Tory majority (and therefore no coalition) we would already have a date for a referendum.

Behind the scenes there is large scale agreement within the Tories that a referendum should be the way forward. Depending upon the developments of the next few weeks, i wouldn't be surprised to this issue get pushed more and more from the back benches.

Of course, i may be wrong!


We can always hope, but I don't think we'll get the referendum until those in power want that "no" vote, I mean it is almost assured that's what they'll get..

My neck of the woods is pretty liberal... in the leave us alone and stop poking your nose in Liberal.. (Sussex coast)

I can see lots of positives about being kicked out of the EU (for my neck of the woods at least) we can return to our stock and trade... smuggling



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


Love it!

I can get on more with more important things too: getting back down the pit, taking the whippet for a walk before a long night of pub time. Forgot about the couple of hours in the wool trade! (do that over the weekend instead)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by GoalPoster
 


Yep, They could always try Wonga for a short term loan, though I feel that even they wouldnt touch the euro zone now, too risky
edit on 9-12-2011 by trustnothing because: .






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