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In my view it is wrong to raise taxes on the Wealthy.

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posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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In my view it is wrong to raise taxes on the Wealthy not only because it is their money or wealth but also because most Wealthy people worked their
way up the economic ladder most big businesses started out small and most Wealthy people at some point they had to have a family member a generation back
or so who was poor or middle class. America should be a nation where it is possible to go from rags to riches in a generation. My great grandfather
was by no means upper class but he got a loan from a bank in the 1930's to start a business and now his son my grandfather is upper middle class.
Does anyone agree that taxing the Wealthy too much is bad for this reason ? Also don't forget that the Wealthy create Jobs and for their Workers Richer
It is a part of the American Dream to want to become Wealthy. I for one used to be a Liberal Democrat I was for Class Warfare.



Tax Cuts and Class Wars

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

President Bush unveiled a very modest tax cut plan last week that calls for the elimination of double taxation on dividends. Democrats immediately attacked the plan using class warfare tactics, clamoring that only the rich will benefit from a dividends tax reduction. This tired argument ignores the millions of middle class American investors who receive dividend checks and presumably don't consider themselves wealthy. It also ignores the stimulative effect that any form of tax cut has on the economy. When dividends are taxed only once, as corporate income, investment is encouraged and shareholder demand for dividends increases. This in turn encourages companies to increase profits, because it's hard to pay dividends if you're not making any money. But these arguments require some analysis, and the left would rather appeal to base emotions and attempt to paint the wealthy as sinister tax dodgers.

As with so many things in politics, the truth is exactly opposite. The so-called rich pay almost all of the income taxes in this country. In fact, the top 1% highest-earning Americans pay a whopping 37% of all individual income taxes collected. The top 10% pay 67%. In other words, 10% of Americans pay two-thirds of the taxes. Half of all taxpayers — those in the bottom 50% of earnings — account for less than 4% of income tax revenues. This means no matter how taxes are cut, it's nearly impossible for those cuts to primarily benefit lower-earning taxpayers. Tax cuts necessarily benefit those who pay the overwhelming bulk of the taxes. This simple truth allows the left to attack each and every tax cut proposal on the grounds that it disproportionately benefits the rich.


www.lewrockwell.com...

Mod Note: IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS - Please Review This Link.
edit on 12/8/2011 by Mirthful Me because: EX Tags.




posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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edit on 06/02/2010 by letscit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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Before you make a final decision, look into the tax rates under the Clinton years.

www.perrspectives.com...

I know things were different, but it is an interesting reference if you are trying to make this analysis.



This chart is particularly enlightening

www.nytimes.com...
edit on 8-12-2011 by lellomackin because: to add another chart



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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So then what? Raise the taxes on people like me who are poor and make about 9 to 10k a year and has to raise a family on that while paying rent, bills and repaying student loans? Really? I already claim 3 on my check so I get more money back on my checks so we can survive (no to everyone else, I'm still 14 months unemployed but when I AM working which has been all the time since 15 years of age until 14 mths ago when I lost my job and I'm about 39 years old) I have made min wage and 'almost' full time work. So I claim 3 even though i have one teen son and myself, I could claim 4 actually..... because taxes as they STAND will take ... lets see. If my 2 week check is 400 dollars, I'll bring home about 217 once taxes are out claiming 0 or 1. At least claiming 3 or 4, I get about 280 to 310 back on my check. You tax me more, we're screwed. Plain and simple.

But noooo, don't tax those who can afford it. Just let the poor struggling folk do it all. We're used to struggling and going without. What's another 50-100 dollars out of our 400 dollars every two week check? We can survive on 300 dollars a month. SURE. Anything to help raise the flipping economy. Yeah. Whatever. I see how you are.

Don't you DARE get upset when I still have to be on food stamps cuz my checks aint enough to get food after I pay off school, rent, bills and so on. Er.... choosing which bills to pay each month, actually. Most roll over til they're about to be turned off and yay for payment plans. You got no right to complain about any of us getting public aid then, if the poor are going to foot the tax increase since the rich are too good for that.

Seriously. You can put money in for my and every other poor working person's food while we fix the trillion dollar debt. FAIR? May we please /eat/ at least for all the money we're going to be putting out by being taxed like the rich should be?
edit on 8-12-2011 by sarra1833 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2011 by sarra1833 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2011 by sarra1833 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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I believe that everybody should be taxed at the same rate. That said, the tax loops that allow Warren Buffet to pay less tax as a percentage of his income than his secretary should be removed.

However, I am highly skeptical of the claim that most rich people worked their way up. My experience is that the upper class get their positions through connections that would otherwise take a normal person 10-15 years to work up to.

My experience with management types and those that climb the ladder are that they tend to get to where they are by being dishonest, back-stabbing, and heavy brown-nosing. In other words, my experience is that one has to be a sociopath to actually get anywhere.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
I believe that everybody should be taxed at the same rate. That said, the tax loops that allow Warren Buffet to pay less tax as a percentage of his income than his secretary should be removed.

However, I am highly skeptical of the claim that most rich people worked their way up. My experience is that the upper class get their positions through connections that would otherwise take a normal person 10-15 years to work up to.

My experience with management types and those that climb the ladder are that they tend to get to where they are by being dishonest, back-stabbing, and heavy brown-nosing. In other words, my experience is that one has to be a sociopath to actually get anywhere.



THANK YOU. I know many managers who got into a business and were there 6 months to a year and suddenly were management. I try to go for that and 'no you need x years of training here and x years in this description and x years in this description." So you're spot on. old boss at a gas station i worked at came in as a total cashier noob and within 7 months was managing her own store and is going to be area supervisor of 6 stores soon. She's been with the company for 2 years. Anyone else has to be employed for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears before becoming management, much less going for area supe. So yup. It's who you know or who you blow apparently.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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LOL

poor people working: 400 dollar check every two weeks. Let's tax em so they bring home 200 every two weeks.

Rich people 'working' - 5000 dollar check every two weeks. Let's tax em 10 dollars, the poor babies suffering so hard. hope you can survive on 4990 every two weeks. Poor things, how you suffer so.

@#%$#^$%&#%!$!@$!#$! whatever.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


if it is wrong to raise taxes on the wealthy then who is it o.k. to raise taxes on?

surely your reasons why it is wrong to raise taxes on the wealthy are also reasons why it would be wrong to raise taxes on other classes, afterall do they not work hard for their money also?

raising taxes on anybody is going to be seen as wrong to those who have to pay more, but if an increase is unavoidable who would you see as more fitting for the increase or more able to cope? and why?

i think it should simply be a case of percentage and any increase is spread throughout the population, but i am not certain if that is always poosible due to the low wages at the other end of the scale and the increase in living costs.

so i have no idea what is best to do even though i know what would be fair, but i am interested what you would do instead of raising taxes on the wealthy.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


So the rich should get rich and the poor should starve? American corporations should pay less taxes while outsources jobs?

Brilliant deduction. Trickle down failure. Epic fail. Your point of view sucks and history proves it? Perhaps you should go work for Wall Mart like Hillary Clinton did. Your the perfect example of what they like...



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Here. Just because I'm on a roll. Most of you know I NEVER go off on a post. but in this case, it hits home.

here. a little vid about 'we are the 1%'.

www.collegehumor.com...



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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If your making 9- 10k your not paying any taxes why the hell should someone else have to pay and other people don't?

Oh i get it as long as its not you who cares yeah that is all about "Fair share".

The simple fact is half this country doesn't pay any and they get tax credits,tax rebates and refunds not to mention other government subsidsidies oh like going green that is government funded by people who actually pay taxes.

Then all those "rich people" do not use medicare,medicaid, and social security and yet still pay for the other half of this country that does.

So why the hell should a small few pay everything? Answer they shouldn't and the simple fact is even if you taxed every rich person in this country 100 percent you could fund 1 program that's right 1 program for a day and then what?

Steal money from those who do pay and then go blow it on "social programs" "foreign aid" and the solyndras.

Nah anyone with half a brain knows that all raising taxes does is prop up already stupid spending habits so why WHY? let them take more to go blow it.

It is not the rich persons fault people are poor IT'S NOT! WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE?

BLAME GOVERNMENT AND THEIR ROBBIN THE HOOD MENTALITY because they are putting everyone in the poor house.

Raising taxes on anyone is the most stupid idiotic assinine thought people have oh and just like the millionaire and billionaire yacht and jet tax guess what that did?

Put the middle class out of work who flies,maintains and drives those "luxury" goods and services i wish people would get their heads out of their collective arses and think once in a while.


edit on 8-12-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


Dear mikejohnson2006



In my view it is wrong to raise taxes on the Wealthy not only because it is their money or wealth but also because most Wealthy people worked their way up the economic ladder most big businesses started out small and most Wealthy people at some point they had to have a family member a generation back


Let me make sure I understand you. If my father made a billion dollars then I should be allowed to inherit it, never work again and use it to influence politicians to make sure that I never lose my money that I didn't earn. Do I have that right. If it is about keeping what you earned then why not limit how much someone can inherit or leave to a trust (same thing)? Reward the one that earned it may be okay. Still there is the question of what this life should be about, should it be about "winning" or about making sure that everyone has a chance to win? Peace.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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The wealthy have got it real good right now. And they aren't creating any jobs. They're just sitting on their cash because things are so uncertain (so they say). Since they aren't going to create any jobs, they need to be taxed to the hilt. These so called "job creators" have been busy creating all kinds of jobs overseas. These companies that have shipped jobs overseas, why don't we revoke their corporate charters and make them relocate to where their factories are, we don't need them here.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
If your making 9- 10k your not paying any taxes why the hell should someone else have to pay and other people don't?

Oh i get it as long as its not you who cares yeah that is all about "Fair share".

The simple fact is half this country doesn't pay any and they get tax credits,tax rebates and refunds not to mention other government subsidsidies oh like going green that is government funded by people who actually pay taxes.

...

BLAME GOVERNMENT AND THEIR ROBBIN THE HOOD MENTALITY because they are putting everyone in the poor house.

Raising taxes on anyone is the most stupid idiotic assinine thought people have oh and just like the millionaire and billionaire yacht and jet tax guess what that did?

Put the middle class out of work who flies,maintains and drives those "luxury" goods and services i wish people would get their heads out of their collective arses and think once in a while.


edit on 8-12-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


I challenge you to go up to someone who is part of the 47% of America who pay no taxes, and tell them, to their face, looking in their eyes, that they, already struggling to survive, should have to pay an extra cent in taxes. I dare you. Go to their trailer park, go to their mobile home, hell, go to their alleyway. I dare ya.

But you'll never do it. You'll never look poverty in the face and you'll never see the human beings who suffer from it. You will continue thinking that they are a different species entirely that does not deserve the same human dignity that you enjoy every day. Therefore, you will feel self-righteous about your views on taxation, thinking you are promoting freedom and liberty and all that jazz, when in reality, no human being should be free to have billions of dollars when there are some with nothing. Especially when the reason those few have billions of dollars is precisely because they exploit those with nothing. You support this system. I doubt you're a billionaire, but you have bought into their manipulative tricks, thinking you are supporting your own freedom and liberty, when in reality, you are just supporting the very people who have already screwed the billion starving people in the world, the billions who are impoverished, the billions who live in destitution and one room houses - the people who screwed over the world would not hesitate to squish you like a little bug, and it will make them laugh, because you yourself were confident that such things could not happen because you have never known anyone who this has happened to, you have never put a face to poverty, and you have never had to worry about how much food you are going to have for yourself and for your kids tonight, the next day, the day after, the day after, the day after...

I challenge you to say these things to people's faces and to give poverty an individual's name. But you won't do it, and because you won't do that, you will continue to think that the system we live in is perfectly fair, that everyone starts out at the same place, that the reason the rich are rich is because they have all worked hard for their money and all the poor are lazy, and you will continue to buy into the very people who can and will screw you over for a profit.

People > profits!!



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by alonzo730
The wealthy have got it real good right now. And they aren't creating any jobs. They're just sitting on their cash because things are so uncertain (so they say). Since they aren't going to create any jobs, they need to be taxed to the hilt. These so called "job creators" have been busy creating all kinds of jobs overseas. These companies that have shipped jobs overseas, why don't we revoke their corporate charters and make them relocate to where their factories are, we don't need them here.


bingo!

the rich bastards always state how raising taxes on them will impede their ability to create jobs. well they have had their g-damn tax vacation for damn near a whole decade and they have in FACT created ALOT of jobs. the problem is, none of those were american jobs.

many of the biggest corporate entities pay little to NO taxes and still manage to collect!! those undocumented workers, visa program workers, and other tax loopholes actually reward them for being unpatriotic. and why wouldn't the system do that? they are the lobbyist that create the financial enviroment in which they prosper.

lets not forget the massive tax breaks in commodities, these people actually get their industries deregulated, off the tax and pollution hook, and on top of that receive a whopping sum of cash back every year, all while boldly flaunting their record gains, quarter after quarter.

thats not success, not hard work, and certainly not the american way. it is making an effing pig of yourself and not being loyal to your country.

the rich are pigs!



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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It is not the rich persons fault people are poor IT'S NOT! WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE?
reply to post by neo96
 


not always, but i have known companies to give large sums of money in bonuses to some worker whilst the lowest paid are not considered important enough. but that will not apply in every case.

but if we are looking for somebody to blame then i feel it is a mixture of things and everybody needs to grow up and stop fighting eachother and come up with something that is fairer for everybody.

it makes me laugh that some people complain if they have to pay more, but are totally fine with having more.
most people work, most people do 40 hours, pay them all the same. that would never happen because it is not seen as fair and some always want more than others, but complain if they have to pay more.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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Poverty is a choice.

Anyone trying to say it isn't is just proffering up excuses.

You are in your line of work, or job or whatever because you choose to be.

Want to be wealthy beyond your dreams? Why aren't you then? Not smart enough? Not clever enough? Oh sure, come out and say your not greedy enough or not a thief. Sorry lame excuse, there are more honest hard working intelligent and clever millionaires then cheats.

Most folks are risk adverse and they have no clue as to what a financial education is. Don't have a clue as to what an asset and a liability is.

Probably think your home is your biggest asset...lol..sorry but it's your banks biggest asset.
edit on 8-12-2011 by Areyoupeopleinsane because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2011 by Areyoupeopleinsane because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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let me give you two choices.

1. you can make $20,000-$40,000 a year and pay 20% tax, or
2. you can make $250,000-$500,000+ a year and pay 40-50% tax

oh yeah, if you take the second choice, you can reduce the 50% down quite a bit with tax cuts and loopholes. obviously everyone is going to choose option 2.

yes, rich people are taxed more, but they make much more money. so long as money is being taken from everyone who makes a sufficient amount of money, i don't see why you have a problem with the rich being taxed more.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by lifeform11
reply to post by mikejohnson2006
 


if it is wrong to raise taxes on the wealthy then who is it o.k. to raise taxes on?

I dare say, no one.


That 'smaller government, more personal responsibility and self reliance' Obama so boldly declared a total failure hasn't had much of a fair shot to work since the whole game went to the big players in 1913 with the Fed and the top wealthy families. I'd be very interested in giving it all another shot.


The whole thing is... We're 16 trillion in the hole in actual national debt. The fed has handed out MORE than that in their big give away efforts and apparently has the unmitigated gall to suggest they didn't do enough and Europe justifies another binge of spending like drunken sailors. There *IS* no way out anymore. Math and all that....It just leaves no solution now.

When this is all past us..and we're starting over in how this system is to work, perhaps we can avoid establishing literally HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of Government agencies and a sense of enforcement duty that seemed bad when it ONLY extended into the Bedroom. Oh how quaint those days seem now......and how insanely expensive to citizens like me it's become in supporting that obscene mess. Without it?? We wouldn't NEED to be talking about tax hikes and our economy would be booming..like it had for the better part of our nation's past.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:56 PM
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1. Nope, not smart enough. I can admit to that xD. Though I am on the high honor roll in my college. I can't start my own business. I already know that. Don't have the money to do so and do not want to be indebted more than I already am for my 68k tuition for college I gotta pay back at some point. Listen, if it were soooooooooo easy to become rich, don't you think the low and middle class would have been obsolete decades ago? That the entire country would be millionaires, billionaires and trillionaires and no Country Debt would exist? Sorry. For those who have, they sure think it's easy peasy for the have nots to make 500,000 a year.

Do ya know what the extra money I get a month is? Maybe 20 bucks. That's awesome to me. I work. I WORK. I have worked since the age of 15. Never been able to save for having to pay my own way, and I really haven't relied on anyone to help either. Been trying to find work for 14 months. 14. Put in an app every where I pass by if they're hiring or not. Along with the other 100 + folks who pass by too. Many interviews I have had and all I feel I did amazing in. And then I hear 'well we have a lot of others to interview over the next three weeks. We'll get back to you'. And then ya don't get the job.

I am not one of those 'sit on my butt and let the checks roll in' sorts. I don't /get/ checks. No unemployment money for me. Nope. We've been surviving off my college refunds/stippends I get every 4 months. I don't give up. I will find work. I'm determined to. I haven't given up yet; I put in 5 apps earlier today. I get food stamps. Thank god else we'd be in deep trouble. I suppose all you'll see is 'I get food stamps' and completely delete all you just read. You're entitled. After all, 'everyone on food stamps are lazy losers', am I right? I'll tell you one thing. Being in this situation, I have extended my level of empathy, sympathy and walking miles in others shoes. When (not if) WHEN I get back on my feet, bet your bottom dollar I'll be doing what I can to help others who are in my current situation. Because i know how it is. I tend to think the poor and lower middle help each other more than the 'well off's' do since we know what it's like to struggle to survive.

I dislike those who milk the process as much as you do. But trust me. I know I'm at least doing everything to my ability to get out of this rut and be someone . Even if it is making 20k a year. I'd feel more than rich making that. I'd not need anything else. KNow why? I learned how to live on little. Very little. I've learned how to value the rare 'gifts' I get from others or from saving a few dollars each month. We have no car, no tv, nothing like that. Grace of God I have this pc to do my school on, to also better my life (while being saddled with debt from hell) but still. I'm trying. With what I have to work with, I'm trying. I have fallen. a LOT. But i get right back up and keep going cuz if I stay down, I'll just get trampled. I refuse to give up. I refuse to stay unemployed and on food stamps, Godsend that they have been. So nope. not your typical low life useless eater here. You got one determined gal who has learned what it's like to truly live.


To Neo96:
2. Yup, I get taxed. Every year I'm at the Jackson Hewett or H&R Block paying my taxes and every year I enjoy the little refund I do get. Aint gone one year of my working life without paying taxes. I had no idea I was married to you to where you know for sure if I pay taxes or not. But yup. I've been a customer of H&R for about 9 years now. Did em myself before that since my dad taught me how to.
edit on 8-12-2011 by sarra1833 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2011 by sarra1833 because: (no reason given)



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