Mary * The Immaculate Conception * God's logical exception

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posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 





You might want to look up noted false apparitions, like Bayside. What happens is people believe in it and start questioning the Church's authority. Even the apparitions egg them on by talking about evil bishops and evil priests. In all approved cases what happens is the apparitions tell them to obey authority. Jesus promised that His church would not be succeeded against by even the gates of hell. So that claim is to cause schisms for the church.


I understand what you mean.. but you also have to realize that many Marion apparitions that were approved..and accepted by the church were not done so until sometimes 100 years later. Bishops at the time of Lourdes threw some of those children behind bars trying to force them to confess they were making it up.

So how is it that the authorities of the church were incorrect..and then the messages were accepted by the authorities of the church..but only many years later ?

It takes a very long time for church authority to approve of visions.. are we to neglect important messages until they have been approved?

It is confusing.. and the only way for me to try and see what is true and what is not..is to pray earnestly to Jesus and His mother to guide me to truth.



edit on 31-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



So how is it that the authorities of the church were incorrect..and then the messages were accepted by the authorities of the church..but only many years later ?


Answer: public pressure.

Gabby, I see that you are admitting your confusion and the weakness of your faith....and I truly am sorry that you are struggling so. You say you will not "be around as much", and I see that you have, according to your posts, come to some awareness of the confusion that clouds your thinking, and the awareness that you have not been previously exposed to the thinking of others who are legitimately refuting the things you take as fact.

The church leaders of the Catholic faith are being scrutinized now. They are being revealed as human beings who are fallible and susceptible to wrong thinking, and also atrocities against their followers, and you yourself do not deny that.

I hope, for the sake of your sanity and comprehension, that you will look into the research and scholarly works of human beings who study these things. I think (not that you care what I think) that it would ease your soul to know that whatever scars from harms you have endured and suffered can indeed be healed, and your reconciliation with the Divine is not dependent upon the Catholic doctrines.

You are, truly, a gentle soul, and (like the rest of us) a damaged human being grasping for some explanation.
In all sincerity wishing you the best of outcomes, and peace in the coming year,
--wt



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





Gabby, I see that you are admitting your confusion and the weakness of your faith....and I truly am sorry that you are struggling so. You say you will not "be around as much", and I see that you have, according to your posts, come to some awareness of the confusion that clouds your thinking, and the awareness that you have not been previously exposed to the thinking of others who are legitimately refuting the things you take as fact.


Be careful you don't misconstrue my words wildtimes.. My weakness of faith has to do with spiritual struggles..and not listening to the advice of of the most Holy mother and not praying the rosary .. and accepting communion in good standing with Jesus.

I have been such a fool to fall away from these actions..and am on the road to repairing my life..and being given the graces and blessings of strong faith..and hope in Jesus.

My confusion is not from the church.. though I know the humans that run it are fallible .. but the grace of Jesus is always there for them as well.

The sacraments of the church are gifts to our souls...and though the church may be persecuted... Jesus will never abandon it.




I hope, for the sake of your sanity and comprehension, that you will look into the research and scholarly works of human beings who study these things. I think (not that you care what I think) that it would ease your soul to know that whatever scars from harms you have endured and suffered can indeed be healed, and your reconciliation with the Divine is not dependent upon the Catholic doctrines.


I think you should leave my sanity and comprehension to those who understand it.. and care about it. Our lady and Saint Pio are pointing me to the path of understanding what the passion of Christ was about.,,and I am fervently praying to them for you as well.

May I kindly ask you..why you are coming to this thread..and trying to counsel me.. with subtle put downs of my mental health and state of mind? Is this your way of showing me how I stalk you? How sad


This thread is about the immaculate conception of Mary. The love and devotion she has to Jesus cannot be surpassed.. I hope someday you will truly understand what she is all about , and what her Son has done for the salvation of souls.

Don't worry..I'm in good hands with Jesus and Mary..
..but thank you for your concern.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



May I kindly ask you..why you are coming to this thread..and trying to counsel me.. with subtle put downs of my mental health and state of mind? Is this your way of showing me how I stalk you? How sad


There you go again....accusing me of "subtle put-downs", when I was genuinely reaching out and responding to the portrayal of yourself and your questions that you have made public on ATS.

Never mind, again. No "counseling" intended. Just goodwill, and a sincere, heartfelt hope that you'll find a place of peace within yourself.

Brightest blessings, gabby.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





There you go again....accusing me of "subtle put-downs", when I was genuinely reaching out and responding to the portrayal of yourself and your questions that you have made public on ATS.
Never mind, again. No "counseling" intended.
Just goodwill, and a sincere, heartfelt hope that you'll find a place of peace within yourself.
Brightest blessings, gabby.


Because I call myself a weak sinner in need of the grace of God ? That part is true..but I will not find peace within myself.. I will find it in refuge with the Sacred Heart, and the Immaculate heart.

But thank you for your sincere wishes of goodwill , and I will place my hope in the goodness of God and His mercy... for all of us here on ATS.

May the Holy Spirit bless you in the coming year wildtimes.. and if you should ever feel troubled or anxious, or going through something unexpected.. please remember you can call out to Christ..and to His saints.. for help , protection and guidance.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by 547000
 





You might want to look up noted false apparitions, like Bayside. What happens is people believe in it and start questioning the Church's authority. Even the apparitions egg them on by talking about evil bishops and evil priests. In all approved cases what happens is the apparitions tell them to obey authority. Jesus promised that His church would not be succeeded against by even the gates of hell. So that claim is to cause schisms for the church.


I understand what you mean.. but you also have to realize that many Marion apparitions that were approved..and accepted by the church were not done so until sometimes 100 years later. Bishops at the time of Lourdes threw some of those children behind bars trying to force them to confess they were making it up.

So how is it that the authorities of the church were incorrect..and then the messages were accepted by the authorities of the church..but only many years later ?

It takes a very long time for church authority to approve of visions.. are we to neglect important messages until they have been approved?

It is confusing.. and the only way for me to try and see what is true and what is not..is to pray earnestly to Jesus and His mother to guide me to truth.



edit on 31-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)


However slow the church is, it cannot be overcome by even the gates of hell. Just because they were slow to approve things, does not mean they were wrong. Even the bible says the church is the pillar of truth, not private revelations.

On one hand you have things that are guaranteed to be true or the other hand you have things not guaranteed to be true. Many true visionaries pleased Christ by listening to the authority of the church, on the other hand some seers buck away the authority of the church and create an atmosphere of dissent.

Satan would not fling dung but gold-plated dung. Getting more people to ignore the authority of the church is a good way to put them on the path to hell.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by gabby2011
 


You might want to look up noted false apparitions, like Bayside. What happens is people believe in it and start questioning the Church's authority. Even the apparitions egg them on by talking about evil bishops and evil priests. In all approved cases what happens is the apparitions tell them to obey authority. Jesus promised that His church would not be succeeded against by even the gates of hell. So that claim is to cause schisms for the church.


In 1882, Christ revealed to the stigmatist, Marie Julie Jahenny of La Fraudais, France that:

"In the last days, a seemingly unlimited amount of FALSE REVELATIONS will arise from hell like a swarm of flies; a last attempt of Satan to choke and to destroy the efficacy of the TRUE REVELATIONS by false ones."


www.newjerusalem.com...


The Church has made a judgment on Bayside. I don't know if it was
properly investigated but we must obey the Church.

To throw out "yet to be approved" private revelation is foolish. And "pride"
has always been against the prophets.

Another reason, the prophesied events have yet to take place, they are
"soon" to happen, the Church can't decide until then, especially when the prophetic lines up with Scripture and Tradition. They have to wait and see....

There is a mystic, maybe the greatest of all time who was/is doubted but is near to being approved. Luisa Piccarreta.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 





On one hand you have things that are guaranteed to be true or the other hand you have things not guaranteed to be true. Many true visionaries pleased Christ by listening to the authority of the church, on the other hand some seers buck away the authority of the church and create an atmosphere of dissent.


I think of Padre Pio and his obedience to the authorities when he was forbidden to hear confessions and was allowed to only say mass privately...when you say this.

My hope is that through prayer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus..and the intercession of His Blessed Mother ..that they will guide me and others, to what is most pleasing to our Father in heaven.

I ask you through the love of the Holy Spirit to please pray for me and all souls.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 





There is a mystic, maybe the greatest of all time who was/is doubted but is near to being approved. Luisa Piccarreta. There is a mystic, maybe the greatest of all time who was/is doubted but is near to being approved. Luisa Piccarreta.



Thank you for this information..there are many mystics who I am not aware of. The Bay Side messages were also ones I had not been aware of.

I am realizing that the basis of my faith needs to come from the foundations of prayer and the Holy Sacraments. through the intercession of Mary and the saints. They are helping my soul to come to a better understanding of how I offend and have offended the heart of Jesus...and are showing me the way to a life of reparation and devotion to our Lord.

The majority of the messages of visionaries has always seems to be to turn our lives back to God..through prayer..especially the Rosary.. to the sacraments of the church.. to pray for the conversion of others..and to offer reparation for the sins of mankind that deeply offend our Lord.

Pope John Paul ll . used to say that to help judge the truth of visions..look at the fruit it bears.

If it brings forth much prayer..and reconciliation to God through the sacraments of the church...how could one believe it was from an evil source. Satan would never encourage souls to seek forgiveness from God.. to repair their lives with the sacraments of reconciliation and the Holy Eucharist..and to pray the rosary for the conversion of sinners.


Thank you for your prayers colbe.. and I will look into the mystic Luisa Piccarreta.

May Jesus bless you abundantly throughout this coming year.. and fill you generously with His Holy Spirit.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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Message to Jennifer



11/30/11
1:11 PM

My child, I come to My children with a message of love. I tell each of My children that you are each the shepherd of your own soul, you are each the caretakers. There is no other besides you that shepherds your words, your thoughts, your actions. What deeds you do are all shepherd by you.

As you enter into this time of winter when the cold air comes in and the flowers and trees have no sign of life, I desire for you My children to meditate on My birth. I came and brought new life into the world so that mankind would not lose his soul to the darkness of sin.

You My children have been given the keys, the invitation into the kingdom of heaven. I came into the world and even remain here for you through the Eucharist to continue to bring light into your souls. You are the caretakers of your own destiny My children.

Come My children and allow Me to shine light into your souls and that is by the way of My Mother. She was and is the first example of obedience to the will of your Heavenly Father. Live by her example. You must respond to your life with the same words My Mother spoke to the angel Gabriel, "Let it be done to me according to thy will.”

The words of My Mother only echoed from the cross at My Crucifixion. When I spoke to My Father asking that this cup pass by Me, but let it not be My will, rather the will of My Father. If you seek heaven My children then you as caretaker of your own soul must shepherd your thoughts, actions and words to the will of your Heavenly Father. Now go forth My children with peace in your hearts for I am Jesus and all will be done according to My will.


www.wordsfromjesus.com...



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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I love Taylor Marshall's blog, he shares things about the faith you didn't know.

Here's one ~ Why you should wear the Miraculous Medal.

cantuar.blogspot.com...

Taylor use to be an Anglican priest.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 05:18 AM
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Another from Taylor Marshall, this time about the Immaculate Conception.
Sharing #2.

3 Scriptural arguments for the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

See the link for the full article...


cantuar.blogspot.com...

Argument #2
Mary as New Eve Having Enmity with Satan

Gen 3:15
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.."


In this verse God addresses Satan. The Seed here is Christ. The Woman is His Mother, that is, Mary. Thus Satan has perfect enmity with Christ and with His Mother. The Catholic Church has interpreted this as indicating the sinlessness of Christ and Mary. If either actually committed sin, then they would not be at enmity with Satan but actually a cooperator with Satan at times.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Originally posted by davereality




Mary was an Apostle, nothing more. Not the "queen of heaven" ishtar/hera/inanna.


lotuspharia.freeyellow.com...

Don't forget about Isis. Wasn't Jesus spirited away to be raised in Egypt?





Isis, Virgin of the World
by
Manly P. Hall

Excerpts from the section titled "Isis, Virgin of the World" from his book, "The Secret Teachings of All Ages"

It is especially fitting that a study of Hermetic symbolism should begin with a discussion of the symbols and attributes of the Saitic Isis. This is the Isis of Sais, famous for the inscription concerning her which appeared on the front of her temple in that city: "I, Isis, am all that has been, that is or shall be; no mortal Man hath ever me unveiled."

This Egyptian deity under many names appears as the principle of natural fecundity among nearly all the religions of the ancient world. She was known as the goddess with ten thousand appellations and was metamorphosed by Christianity into the Virgin Mary, for Isis, although she gave birth to all living things--chief among them the Sun--still remained a virgin, according to the legendary accounts.


Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."


During the Middle Ages the troubadours of Central Europe preserved in song the legends of this Egyptian goddess. They composed sonnets to the most beautiful woman in all the world. Though few ever discovered her identity, she was Sophia, the Virgin of Wisdom, whom all the philosophers of the world have wooed. Isis represents the mystery of motherhood, which the ancients recognized as the most apparent proof of Nature's omniscient wisdom and God's overshadowing power. To the modern seeker she is the epitome of the Great Unknown, and only those who unveil her will be able to solve the mysteries of life, death, generation, and regeneration.
edit on 19-2-2012 by windword because: add copy



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


windword,

You spend a lot of time in my threads. This is a good sign, you will
be converted at the time of the Great Warning. I wish before though...

Showing similarities between Paganism and Catholicism proves nothing, there is no connection. It's a lame attempt by atheists, disbelievers.



www.catholicthinker.net...


"All of the following practices or beliefs mentioned in the Bible were also known among pagans: raising hands in worship, taking off shoes on holy ground, a holy mountain, a holy place in a temple, offering sacrifices without blemish, a sacred ark, a city of refuge, bringing forth water from a rock, laws written on stone, fire appearing on a person’s head, horses of fire, the offering of first fruits, and tithes.

By this method, the Lord himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in his hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the "sun of righteousness" (Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called "the bright morning star" (Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4)."

In contrast to Rev. Woodrow, anyone who *does* learn the facts of the matter and still insists that the Catholic Church has been "corrupted by paganism" is either incapable of intelligent reasoning (that is, mentally handicapped) or dishonest - period."



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 03:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by colbe

cantuar.blogspot.com...

Argument #2
Mary as New Eve Having Enmity with Satan

Gen 3:15
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.."


In this verse God addresses Satan. The Seed here is Christ. The Woman is His Mother, that is, Mary. Thus Satan has perfect enmity with Christ and with His Mother. The Catholic Church has interpreted this as indicating the sinlessness of Christ and Mary. If either actually committed sin, then they would not be at enmity with Satan but actually a cooperator with Satan at times.



I was thinking about the word in Scripture and in the underlined above... "enmity."

I looked in the dictionary, it means the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.

With our fallen nature, we cooperate "with Satan at times" as Taylor
Marshall pointed out.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


From your link;


- Symbols don't mean anything intrinsically: they have the meaning we assign to them. It is no surprise some Christian symbols were used by pagans and there's nothing to apologize for.

- Similarities in things like shapes, styles of dress, habits (such as kneeling, praying, etc.) indicate nothing more than *coincidence* - obviously such things (circles, purple robes, beams of light, etc.) are simply *extremely common things* that pop up in all kinds of contexts. To assert a close and intentional relationship between two belief systems because of such similarities is simply either stupidity or blind prejudice in action.


This is absolute bunk! If you think symbolism has no meaning other than how it is explained to you, that there aren't hidden meanings, psychological code in symbolism, you are very naive.

First, Jesus was not a Catholic, he was a Jew. Jesus preached Jewish mysticism and the symbolism of the sacred books. He spoke Hebrew, to Hebrew people only. Later his words were attempted to be translated into Greek and Latin. Never the less, the symbolism of the sacred text of the Torah is indeed very important in understanding the mysteries of Jesus, the Kabalah and of Christianity.

The English translation of the bible, the words, are not important. The message is. The message, the law that Jesus came to fulfill, is the Torah. The Torah is sacred and eternal. Jesus is the Torah, the Law, the "Word," but it's all wrapped in the mystery that is hidden within the Torah, which can't be changed. You can change the words and letters, but like mathmatics, not the formula.

The only veneration of the virtue of virginity in ancient text were the Goddess driven beliefs of the time. Isis, Diana, Ishtar, Gaia, Mother Earth etc. and, it is very ancient. Many temples were erected to them. Their representatives were the priestess, vestible virgins and seers, like the Oracle of Delphi. Catholics most certainly DID usurped this goddess belief system all over, and killed those who didn't submit to their patriarchal authority. Mary, is introduced only to pacify the masses who still venerated women, giving not a symbol of fertility and power, but of subservience and austerity. Under the Catholic church only men are allowed to dispense grace, hear confession, baptism, communion, etc.

Catholicism uses massive amounts of imagery and symbolism but fails to share their sacred meanings. It's utter brainwashing and a distraction from the truth. Here are some examples of the complexity of the symbolism of the Hebrew language, which was the language that Jesus spoke. Which is the language of the Torah, which your bible is based on. Try to think outside the box and understand the beauty of the religion that Jesus followed.






posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe
 


From your link;


- Symbols don't mean anything intrinsically: they have the meaning we assign to them. It is no surprise some Christian symbols were used by pagans and there's nothing to apologize for.

- Similarities in things like shapes, styles of dress, habits (such as kneeling, praying, etc.) indicate nothing more than *coincidence* - obviously such things (circles, purple robes, beams of light, etc.) are simply *extremely common things* that pop up in all kinds of contexts. To assert a close and intentional relationship between two belief systems because of such similarities is simply either stupidity or blind prejudice in action.


This is absolute bunk! If you think symbolism has no meaning other than how it is explained to you, that there aren't hidden meanings, psychological code in symbolism, you are very naive.

First, Jesus was not a Catholic, he was a Jew. Jesus preached Jewish mysticism and the symbolism of the sacred books. He spoke Hebrew, to Hebrew people only. Later his words were attempted to be translated into Greek and Latin. Never the less, the symbolism of the sacred text of the Torah is indeed very important in understanding the mysteries of Jesus, the Kabalah and of Christianity.

The English translation of the bible, the words, are not important. The message is. The message, the law that Jesus came to fulfill, is the Torah. The Torah is sacred and eternal. Jesus is the Torah, the Law, the "Word," but it's all wrapped in the mystery that is hidden within the Torah, which can't be changed. You can change the words and letters, but like mathmatics, not the formula.

The only veneration of the virtue of virginity in ancient text were the Goddess driven beliefs of the time. Isis, Diana, Ishtar, Gaia, Mother Earth etc. and, it is very ancient. Many temples were erected to them. Their representatives were the priestess, vestible virgins and seers, like the Oracle of Delphi. Catholics most certainly DID usurped this goddess belief system all over, and killed those who didn't submit to their patriarchal authority. Mary, is introduced only to pacify the masses who still venerated women, giving not a symbol of fertility and power, but of subservience and austerity. Under the Catholic church only men are allowed to dispense grace, hear confession, baptism, communion, etc.

Catholicism uses massive amounts of imagery and symbolism but fails to share their sacred meanings. It's utter brainwashing and a distraction from the truth. Here are some examples of the complexity of the symbolism of the Hebrew language, which was the language that Jesus spoke. Which is the language of the Torah, which your bible is based on. Try to think outside the box and understand the beauty of the religion that Jesus followed.





"Symbols" trump words...okay. Why are your replies so long?

You can't tell everyone you are "divine" and there is no "Hell" and think they're not going to call you on it. You are running all over the place, non
sensical windword,

windword...said:

"The English translation of the bible, the words, are not important. The message is."

Okay, how do you take Christ's words out of the message of Christianity?
This is goofy. Symbolism is not the thing.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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I share this again because, it's important to realize. Do not let any
doubter, disbeliever protest about Christianity (Catholicism, the fullness of Christianity) saying it is Pagan. Look at the Scripture verses below.

It's foolish on their part.


www.catholicthinker.net...


"All of the following practices or beliefs mentioned in the Bible were also known among pagans: raising hands in worship, taking off shoes on holy ground, a holy mountain, a holy place in a temple, offering sacrifices without blemish, a sacred ark, a city of refuge, bringing forth water from a rock, laws written on stone, fire appearing on a person’s head, horses of fire, the offering of first fruits, and tithes.

By this method, the Lord himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in his hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the "sun of righteousness" (Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called "the bright morning star" (Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4)."

In contrast to Rev. Woodrow, anyone who *does* learn the facts of the matter and still insists that the Catholic Church has been "corrupted by paganism" is either incapable of intelligent reasoning (that is, mentally handicapped) or dishonest - period."



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 05:52 PM
link   
reply to post by colbe
 


By that definition, everything not Catholic is paganism. But look around at all the pagan symbolism at the Vatican.

The Catholic Church is nothing more than a distraction from the true teachings of Jesus. Jesus, who was Jewish taught the sacred symbolism of the Torah. Jesus mentioned nothing of the divinity of Mary. This is a distraction and a willful corruption of teachings that Jesus put forth. The church has a purpose to promote hell and punishment and repentance and confession, and it's not about the health of your soul. It's all about guilt and power and control.

Jesus was Jewish, NOT CATHOLIC! The Catholic Church demonizes Jews, when all along, that's the religion of Jesus and his teachings. Christianity is rooted in Jewish mysticism.

You keep making these threads, www.abovetopsecret.com..., www.abovetopsecret.com... warning of impending doom with no other proof than some anonymous person claiming to have the voice of god, Jesus, Mary. I keep answering. My answers are long because I'm trying to tie in all 3 of your threads and my answers into an intelligent discussion, as you keep dragging my answers from other threads in.

Religion and the quest for unity can't be cornered in one box of threats, fear and penance. It's got complicated roots that the serious scholar will research and discuss. I see that you're not one of them.
edit on 19-2-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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windword and anyone interested or involved in the New Age Movement,

I listened to a weekly radio program last Saturday called the Good Fight.
The hostess Barbara McGuigan (sp) had a guest on, an author, speaker,
producer who once was involved in New Age and the occult.

Forward to about 7 minutes on for Matthew Arnold's story, you can listen to Matthew and look at other things on the Net. I learned a lot. Matthew was involved in Spiritism and he was actually a fortune teller!

Top of the page, the January 7th program:

castroller.com...


colbe





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