Mary * The Immaculate Conception * God's logical exception

It doesn't require a bit of faith. The one person who would carry God inside her would have to be sinless. Mary conceived without Original Sin.


December 8th ** The Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception **


I was reading the writings of St. Bernard (1090-1153) who is a Doctor of the
Church. He is truly a contemplative. I keep coming across "new" ways of looking at well known Scripture verses and basics we already know of the faith.

I post an excerpt from a translation of the sermons of St. Bernard on Advent
and Christmas. I give example of something new. I never paid attention to this
one word of Elizabeth in her greeting to Mary. I'll underline it. I would think of Our Lord alone as "blessed" meaning His perfect holiness when I read that sentence.

We are blessed, everyone, all souls by Mary's yes, her fiat.

I can post the link
if you would like...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~


ON THE "MISSUS EST " 51

...as by knowledge, so that He is with them by
agreement of wills. While their wills are subject to
justice and right reason, God does not disdain to
will what they will, for their wills being conformed
to His, they in a manner unite God to themselves.
If God is thus present with all the saints, He is
especially so with Mary, with whom He was so
closely united as to have not only one will, but one
flesh, for from His own Divine nature and from her
virginal substance one Christ was made, Who, sharing
both natures, was at once the Son of God and Son
of the Virgin Mary. The angel therefore says :
" Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." Not
only is there with thee God the Son, Whom thou
dost clothe with thy flesh, but also God the Holy
Ghost, of Whom thou dost conceive, and God
the Father, Who begot Him, Who is to be thy Son.
The Father is with thee who makes His Son to be
thine ; the Son is with thee who institutes with thee
a wondrous Sacrament, and yet preserves the seal of
thy virginity. The Holy Spirit is with thee, and
with the Father and the Son He sanctifies thy pure
womb. The Lord," therefore, " is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women."

I love to add what Elizabeth soon after pronounced,
and " Blessed is the fruit of thy womb."
Not that, because thou art blessed, the fruit of thy
womb is also blessed, but because He prevented
thee with the blessings of sweetness, therefore art
thou blessed. Truly blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, in whom all nations are blest, of whose full
ness thou hast received as others have, but in a
fuller measure.

reply to post by colbe


Although logic would seem to dictate that the mother of Jesus would have to be without sin, to carry a Holy God, it does not necessarily imply that Mary never sinned.

Perhaps she was absolved of her wrongdoings, prior to carrying the Christ?

It is also plain from the scriptures that she did have other children too (although this is denied by those with a particular theological slant). He had four brothers and at least two sisters according to Matthew 13:55-56. Which implies that she did not REMAIN celibate.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it make any particular fuss over Mary. She did no miracles, gave no instructions, answered no prayers, healed no-one nor did anything particularly remarkable other than bear Christ.

She was the most blessed of women in all history but she was as human as any of us are.

Those who build religious worship around her have no basis to support their fiction.

reply to post by chr0naut

logic

May I remind you what we are talking about here...

We are all born with a sin. Mary was born with out sin because she was chosen by God before she was born. The leads to her being able to incarnate Jesus.

As a catholic, just letting you know what is said in our faith.

Originally posted by ThrowCatsAtCacti
reply to post by chr0naut

 

logic

May I remind you what we are talking about here...

Point taken, but I have a faith in Christ and would hope that others perceive that, to me, it is based in truth, logical and is fully attested to by documentation generally accepted as scriptural.

PS: Do the cats stick?

Originally posted by davereality
We are all born with a sin. Mary was born with out sin because she was chosen by God before she was born. The leads to her being able to incarnate Jesus.

As a catholic, just letting you know what is said in our faith.

Since it does not explicitly say so in scripture, how did the idea that Mary was sinless come to be a core belief of Catholicism?

mary was no more divine than my mother or yours or anybody else who was born and has a mother! mary was obedient to do the will of god as revealed to her.period! read the bible and then read it again. mary and her sister who bore john the baptist were obdient to do the will of god as revealed to them! mary's sister elizabeth would also then be divine and so then would john the baptist be a co-redeemer and start another religion! the shed blood of the christ jesus (yashua) is the only thing that paid in full the penalty of all sin and one must belive and have faith in that one thing and that one person to be their personal savior to be forgiven of sin! he alone was obedient to do the fathers will and fulfill the scriptures promise of a savior for the people. do not diminish the christ with co-redeemer's thee is no other way for sins to be forgiven.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by colbe

 

Although logic would seem to dictate that the mother of Jesus would have to be without sin, to carry a Holy God, it does not necessarily imply that Mary never sinned.

Perhaps she was absolved of her wrongdoings, prior to carrying the Christ?

It is also plain from the scriptures that she did have other children too (although this is denied by those with a particular theological slant). He had four brothers and at least two sisters according to Matthew 13:55-56. Which implies that she did not REMAIN celibate.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it make any particular fuss over Mary. She did no miracles, gave no instructions, answered no prayers, healed no-one nor did anything particularly remarkable other than bear Christ.

She was the most blessed of women in all history but she was as human as any of us are.

Those who build religious worship around her have no basis to support their fiction.

Mary had no other children. Where is record of them and their children in
history? No offense, this is a classic misinterpretation of Scripture. There isn't a word for cousin and not everyone is a blood brother or sister.

Mary, an only child was presented in the Temple by her parents. She made a
vow of virginity, to be ever virgin. God can do anything, she remained ever virgin, literally.

No one worships Mary, she is not God chr0naut. You gotta come to a different
understanding about Mary. Mary is sinless, it's been revealed.

Her sinlessness is found in Scripture and in prophecy..."private revelation." God speaks through His prophets in every age. In the last 100 years because of the state of the world, we see more than previous years, God specially, has sent His mother to help save souls and sent her to many places in the world.

You just have to believe. Do not take it personal, history shows Mary appears to, speaks to Catholics with her messages. There might be an exception to this but as far as I know not yet to non-Catholic Christians. She will soon, at or after the Great Warning. She can't now because they profess heresy, teachings of men not of God. One example, since 1517, Martin Luther's idea to make a Catholic book, the Bible, his authority. Luther came up with "Sola Scriptura" because he rejected the Church. No one who believes "Bible Alone" can show it written in Scripture. The pillar and foundation of Truth is the CHURCH 1 Tim 3:15.

Scripturally, God the Father's first words for Mary, His greeting brought by the
Archangel Gabriel is proof Mary is sinless. She is the exception. "Grace" is the
presence of God. Mary is full of God, no sin.

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. www.drbo.org...

Mary appeared at Lourdes (1858) to give her words, really, to make clear God's actions. The young Bernadette at that moment of hearing them didn't understand Mary's words.

Mary said: "I am the Immaculate Conception."

There you go, Scripture and the prophetic. chr0naut, for you I shall post Bernadette's account of Mary's appearance. It is very touching. One day, soon, you'll say...those Catholics were right. God's plan, He can make exceptions. Remember, Enoch and Elijah are an exception.











I

It would seem historically, that this 'Mary' had children by another husband before taking up with 'Joseph'.. the evidence being that she had an older son and I think two daughters prior to 'Jesus'.

In the West we do not understand the ancient Hebrew Marriage system.. and so our thinking about Jesus' family is very much incorrect.

In those days, a women was considered a Virgin until she bore her husband in marriage a Son.. no matter how many daughters she had prior to birthing a Son, and no matter how many marriages she may have had prior to the last one. The Hebrew Marriage was a very unusual afair to say the least.. and so it is worthwhile learning as much as you can about it in order to gain a clearer perception on your Westernised Scriptures.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by colbe

 

Although logic would seem to dictate that the mother of Jesus would have to be without sin, to carry a Holy God, it does not necessarily imply that Mary never sinned.

Perhaps she was absolved of her wrongdoings, prior to carrying the Christ?

It is also plain from the scriptures that she did have other children too (although this is denied by those with a particular theological slant). He had four brothers and at least two sisters according to Matthew 13:55-56. Which implies that she did not REMAIN celibate.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it make any particular fuss over Mary. She did no miracles, gave no instructions, answered no prayers, healed no-one nor did anything particularly remarkable other than bear Christ.

She was the most blessed of women in all history but she was as human as any of us are.

Those who build religious worship around her have no basis to support their fiction.

Mary had no other children. Where is record of them and their children in
history? No offense, this is a classic misinterpretation of Scripture. There isn't a word for cousin and not everyone is a blood brother or sister.

Mary, an only child was presented in the Temple by her parents. She made a
vow of virginity, to be ever virgin. God can do anything, she remained ever virgin, literally.

No one worships Mary, she is not God chr0naut. You gotta come to a different
understanding about Mary. Mary is sinless, it's been revealed.

Her sinlessness is found in Scripture and in prophecy..."private revelation." God speaks through His prophets in every age. In the last 100 years because of the state of the world, we see more than previous years, God specially, has sent His mother to help save souls and sent her to many places in the world.

You just have to believe. Do not take it personal, history shows Mary appears to, speaks to Catholics with her messages. There might be an exception to this but as far as I know not yet to non-Catholic Christians. She will soon, at or after the Great Warning. She can't now because they profess heresy, teachings of men not of God. One example, since 1517, Martin Luther's idea to make a Catholic book, the Bible, his authority. Luther came up with "Sola Scriptura" because he rejected the Church. No one who believes "Bible Alone" can show it written in Scripture. The pillar and foundation of Truth is the CHURCH 1 Tim 3:15.

Scripturally, God the Father's first words for Mary, His greeting brought by the
Archangel Gabriel is proof Mary is sinless. She is the exception. "Grace" is the
presence of God. Mary is full of God, no sin.

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. www.drbo.org...

Mary appeared at Lourdes (1858) to give her words, really, to make clear God's actions. The young Bernadette at that moment of hearing them didn't understand Mary's words.

Mary said: "I am the Immaculate Conception."

There you go, Scripture and the prophetic. chr0naut, for you I shall post Bernadette's account of Mary's appearance. It is very touching. One day, soon, you'll say...those Catholics were right. God's plan, He can make exceptions. Remember, Enoch and Elijah are an exception.

I

Firstly, Jude, the writer of the epistle of Jude, was one of Jesus brothers (mentioned in Matthew 13:55-56) who became a convert after Jesus was crucified.

His brother James (also called James the Just) was also the first leader of the Christian Church (Bishop) in Jerusalem. James the Just was also called "the brother of the Lord" by Paul in Galatians 1:19. James was mentioned in Acts, in fact, he is the author of the Apostolic Decree in Acts 15. The Epistle of James is attributed to him. He is mentioned by Josephus and quoted by Saint Jerome. In the extant lists of Hippolytus of Rome, Dorotheus of Tyre, the Chronicon Paschale, and Dimitry of Rostov, he is the FIRST of the Seventy Apostles. He is definitely a historic figure, referenced several times in scripture as "the brother of the Lord".

You said that they didn't have a word for cousin, implying that they used the word for brother instead. The word "cousin" in Greek (that the gospels were written in) is εξάδελφος, the word for "brother" in Greek is αδελφός. Similarly, the word for cousin in Hebrew is בן דוד, the word for brother is אח. Your "reason" for a mistranslation obviously is not valid.

Mary was an only child. I will totally agree with you on that. This allowed the Davidic royal line to be accounted to Christ even though the male offspring of Jeconiah (Joseph's lineage) were cursed by God to not be able to occupy the throne of David.

Continued next post...

reply to post by chr0naut


Hello chr0naut,

I wanted to share the story of Lourdes with you. It is at Lourdes, Mary said: "I am the Immaculate Conception." Mary appeared to Bernadette 18 times. Here is
Bernadette's account of the first time ~
_ _ _

Bernadette spoke in a "patois", she could neither read nor write. Unlike the La Salette children (seers), Bernadette was already an advanced contemplative when Our Lady appeared, having cultivated the habit of praying always. In the fields she constantly said her rosary over and over. She was the daughter of poor parents, who were very devoted to one another. The improvident nature and erratic generosity of her father kept the family in dire poverty at all times, but it did not affect in any degree the love of husband for wife and vice versa. At the time Our Lady appeared to Bernadette in the Grotto of Massabielle, Bernadette was fourteen years old and living at home, which was part of an old abandoned jail. She was the most innocent type of moral character, scrupulously honest, obedient, who never committed a deliberate venial sin during her entire life.

On February 11, 1858, Bernadette Soubirous, her sister, 'Toinette Soubirous, and a friend, Jean Abadie, were walking alongside a narrow stream, thirty or forty feet wide. It was a cold day, and they were about the business of gathering firewood for the hearth. Passing along the left bank of the stream, they came opposite the grotto of Massabielle, ("the rock"), at which point one of the girls suggested they take off shoes and stockings, wade across the stream and continue searching on the opposite side. Bernadette never seemed to enjoy good health and was reluctant to go wading in cold water, fearing an attack of asthma 'Toinette and Jean, having no such scruples, took off shoes and stockings to cross immediately. Bernadette asked Jean to take her on ha shoulders, but Jean refused bluntly, told Bernadette, "If you won't come, stay where you are."

Bernadette relates the incident: "I had just begun to take off my first stocking when suddenly I heard a great noise like the sound of a storm. I looked to the right, to the left, under the trees of the river, but nothing moved; I thought I was mistaken. I went on taking off my shoes and stockings, when I heard a fresh noise like the first. Then I was frightened and stood straight up. I lost all power of speech and thought, when, turning my head toward the grotto, I saw at one of the openings of the rock a bush, one only, moving as if it were very windy. Almost at the same time there came out of the interior of the grotto a golden colored cloud, and soon after a Lady, young and beautiful, exceedingly beautiful, the like of whom I had never seen, came and placed herself at the entrance of the opening above the bush. She looked at me immediately, smiled at me and signed me to advance, as if she had been my mother. All fear had left me, but I seemed to know no longer where I was. I rubbed my eyes, I shut them, I opened them; but the Lady was still there continuing to smile at me and making me understand that I was not mistaken. Without thinking of what I was doing, I took my rosary in my hands and fell on my knees. The Lady made a sign of approval with her head and took into her hands a rosary which hung on Her right arm. When I attempted to begin the rosary and tried to lift my hand to my forehead, my arm remained paralyzed, and it was only after the Lady had signed herself that I could do the same. The Lady left me to pray all alone; she passed the beads of her rosary between her fingers but she said nothing; only at the end of each decade did She say the 'Gloria' with me.

"When the recitation of the rosary was finished, the Lady returned to the interior of the rock and the golden cloud disappeared with her."

The Lady had the appearance of "a young girl, sixteen, or seventeen years old. She wore a white dress drawn in at the waist by a blue ribbon whose ends hung down. On her head she wore a long white veil so as almost to cover her hair. Her feet were bare but nearly covered by the folds of her dress, except at the tip where a yellow rose shone on each. On her right arm she carried a rosary of white beads on a golden chain, shining like the roses on her feet."

In the beginning, as at Paris and La Salette, Our Lady first made friends with Bernadette and inspired confidence in her Identity. These parts of the talks of "The Lady" have never been made known. There was no way of Bernadette's knowing who "The Lady" was. ....


from the www.ewtn.com... library

Mary could not have been presented at the Temple. Although first born, she was female. The closest she could approach the Temple was the outer court. Similarly, there is no oath of virginity in Hebrew law. Due to the rights of a woman only being fulfilled through having a husband under Hebrew law, it would cause the woman to have no rights or inheritance, so there is no such vow.

You have repeated that Mary is sinless but you have not provided any support for the statement.

I will not pass comment upon visions of Mary as they again are not scriptural.

The word "grace" does not mean the presence of God. Grace is a condition of undeserved merit. Get a dictionary.

Jesus is the point and primary topic of the Bible. To quote Jesus, "the volume of the book is written of me".

The fact that the Catholic Church has ignored significant sections of the Bible, attempted to hide the truth, tried to re-interpret what is there in plain text and persecuted true believers for centuries shows the source of their motivation.

This belief Jesus had brothers and sisters is nonsense. I will look up that Matthew reference.

I love you all and don't wish to argue but the world would know of Jesus' brothers and sisters and their children. Why did Our Lord never speak of them? Joseph died before Our Lord's three year ministry. Who is the person Mary married and why is there no account of him or their marriage in history? What of Mary's vow of virginity made in the Temple? Why did Jesus give His mother to the care of John from the Cross if there were "brothers" to care for her?

It comes from no authority to interpret Scripture and who knows, a desire to protest Mary's perpetual virginity. Why? The Holy Family is very very special.

Read a Catholic Bible, the English translation of the Latin Vulgate, the first Bible.
It's called the Douay-Rheims Bible. The footnotes will really help.

The Epistle of Jude is not included in the Canon for a reason. It is not divinely
inspired.


www.drbo.org...

Originally posted by chr0naut
Mary could not have been presented at the Temple. Although first born, she was female. The closest she could approach the Temple was the outer court. Similarly, there is no oath of virginity in Hebrew law. Due to the rights of a woman only being fulfilled through having a husband under Hebrew law, it would cause the woman to have no rights or inheritance, so there is no such vow.

You have repeated that Mary is sinless but you have not provided any support for the statement.

I will not pass comment upon visions of Mary as they again are not scriptural.

The word "grace" does not mean the presence of God. Grace is a condition of undeserved merit. Get a dictionary.

Jesus is the point and primary topic of the Bible. To quote Jesus, "the volume of the book is written of me".

The fact that the Catholic Church has ignored significant sections of the Bible, attempted to hide the truth, tried to re-interpret what is there in plain text and persecuted true believers for centuries shows the source of their motivation.

I smile here, no offense friend. Forever Protestants protest asking why is there so
little mentioned of Mary in Scripture? Forget that she was there at almost every event of Our Lord's life.

Why?

You said it.
"Jesus is the point and primary topic of the Bible. To quote Jesus, "the volume of the book is written of me".

Mary in humility agrees. She expressed this to the Gospel writers who she knew
very well, she lived with one of them. They made the Gospel about Our Lord.

We would learn of Mary and her place in our Redemption throughout the 2000
years to follow and to this very day. It's God's plan.

I gave you Scripture chrn0aut, a reference in Luke and you didn't read it, I am assuming? God the Father's first words for Mary were.

"HAIL, FULL OF GRACE."

Explain to me what grace is? Grace is divine, it is God's presence. Mary is full
of God. Very easy to understand, she is sinless.

The big question is....why would anyone want Our Lord's mother to be a sinner
and not a holy, holy, person? I don't know, pride?

The Bible is Catholic. Pope Damasus decided the Canon guided by God in
382 A.D. It hasn't changed.

Mary's visions are a part of prophecy. She brings messages from the Blessed Trinity. Prophecy is a part of God's revelation. You accept Old Testament prophets and John the Baptist's words in the Gospel.

It's that Protestant rejection of Mary. You gotta change. Time is short. It will
take the Great Warning.

Take a couple of moments to listen to Catholic Apologist Parick Madrid answer a question about the brother/cousin disagreement. Patrick explains and gives example from John. And near the end, the caller asks a second question, about Mary being without sin.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by colbe


Mary was born into Original Sin like everyone of us, the only exception was Jesus who was concieved from the Holy Spirit who is not of this world (possibly 100% from God and having no human DNA, which could be a part of what made him holy). Mary found favor with God because she was a vestial virgin of the temple. Young girls at a certain age from certain families would be inducted into the temple for God's work for a certain amount of time and she was one of those. Because she was righteous and had a heart true to God he found favor with her and chose her to bear the light of the world (Jesus).

Trying to say Mary was without sin and was holy is goddess worship, what the catholics do as they call her the "Queen of Heaven" which is a pagan title attributed to Ishtar/Hera/Inanna.

Good luck explaining it. For any of it to be accepted they must first understand the history of the protestant reformation and ponder to what submitting to authority means, what it means when it says scripture is of no private interpretation, why Paul tell you to hold to tradition and listen to what is told and not just read, why the apostles were given the ability to forgive sin if the idea is men had to only confess to straight to God and not anyone else, and so many other things.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

the only exception was Jesus who was concieved from the Holy Spirit who is not of this world (possibly 100% from God and having no human DNA

seems there is room for debate

when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians4

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Romans9

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1John5

but

And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
Luke20

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrew7

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Corinthians5

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19

this reminds me of the image the ark of the covenant potrays having something to do with the two cherubs being made one with the cover

reply to post by colbe


St. Bernard of Clairvaux helps you understand about humility. Jesus, Our God and Savior was humble, and His mother too. Remember, the next time a prideful thought comes along.

Virginity is not for all ; it is for the few ;
and there are few among the few that unite humility
with virginity. Wherefore, if you can only admire
the virginity of Mary without being able to imitate
it, study to copy her humility, and it will be sufficient
for you. But if with virginity you possess humility,
then you are great indeed.

But in Mary there is something more wonderful
still: it is the union of fecundity with virginity.
Since the beginning of the world it had not been
heard that a woman was at once a virgin and a
mother. And if you consider of whom she is the
mother, how great will be your admiration of her
exalted dignity! Do you feel as if you can never
sufficiently praise it ? Do you not judge, and rightly,
that she who has the God-man for her Son is exalted
in greatness above all the choirs of angels ? Did
not Mary confidently call the God and Lord of
Angels her Son, saying : " Son, why hast thou done so to us" P1
Which of the angels would have pre sumed thus to speak?
It is sufficient for them and something
great, that while by nature they are spirits
by grace they are made and called angels, as David
says : " Who maketh his angels spirits." 2 In con
fidently calling God her Son, Mary acknowledges
herself mother of that Majesty Whom those angels
serve with reverential awe. Neither does God
1 St. Luke ii. 48. 2 Ps. ciii. 4, and Heb. i. 7.



ON THE " MISSUS EST 31

disdain to be called what He vouchsafed to be.
For the Evangelist adds shortly after,
" And he was subject to them." 1 Who was subject?
God, to man. God to Whom the angels are subject.
God, Whom the powers and principalities obey, was
subject to Mary. And not only to Mary, but to
Joseph also for Mary s sake. Consider, then, and
choose which you will most admire, the gracious
condescension of the Son, or the surpassing dignity
of the mother. Both are amazing; both are
miraculous. That a God should obey a woman
is humility without example; that a woman
should command the Son of God is a dignity without
parallel. In the praise of virgins we hear that
wonderful verse: " They shall follow the Lamb
whithersoever he goeth." 2 But what praise, think
you, is worthy of her who leads the way before Him?
Learn, O man, to obey ; learn, O earth, to be subject ;
learn, O dust, to be submissive. The Evangelist,
speaking of your Creator, says : " He was subject
to them " that is, of course, to Mary and Joseph.

Blush, O dust and ashes, and be ashamed to be
proud. God humbles Himself, and do you exalt your
self ? God submits to man, and do you desire to
domineer over your fellow-man? In so doing you
prefer yourself to your Creator. Would that when such
thoughts assail me, God would vouchsafe to make
me the same reproach as to His Apostle : " Get
behind me, Satan, for thou savourest not the things
that are of God 3 As often as I seek distinction
among men, so often do I dispute the pre-eminence
with my God, and then assuredly I savour not the

1 St. Luke ii. 51. 2 Apoc. xiv. 4. 3 St. Matt. xvi. 23.

things that are of God, since of Him it is said :
" He was subject to them." If, O man, you disdain
to imitate the example of your fellow-man, you
cannot find it degrading to follow that of your
Maker.

reply to post by 547000


Thank you 547000,

I post Catholic topics, end time subjects, messages from Heaven, Catholic and
Protestant to present the best advise, direction from Heaven. For everyone to prepare, and disbelievers for their change of heart, but pride gets in the way, mine too. I do it mainly for people to remember, when the Great Warning happens.

Mary appeared to Bernadette at Lourdes for the first time, it was1858. There is modern apparition going on for a long time, Medjugorje. One of the visionaries, Marijana receives a message on the 2nd of each month. You'll see the latest message and watch Marijana. Her joy when she sees Mary. Watch from about 4:45.


www.medjugorje.ws...