how they fought in the 70's, how we lost, what I learned (please comment)

We used to make stuff in this country that doesn't break.
These days everything breaks.
Even the law.
All the while, we are being offered arbitration.
How did it come so far.


In the 70's I remember seeing people all over the south struggle to define our future. As soon as any new product was found to be of poor quality the word would spread through the gossip vines like lightning. Cheep, rip off, junk, garbage. And the product would disappear from the market. Everyone's dad had a tool shed/garage and was trying to stock it up with everything they would require to rebuild civilization from the ground up. People still built and sold furniture, wooden children's toys, even playground equipment. A small home grown economy that was willfuly going against the big box store K-mart.

But all was for naught. Fiat currency you see.
Pretty soon instead of every neighborhood having a home lawnmower repair,
a new snapper cost less than the repairs.
Of course it was junk, but at those prices...
Against Fiat currency, the argument for quality evaporates from the market.
Items that last subvert future profits.


My Grandfather said "The poor can not afford to be cheap." He was talking about shoes. But I have found it to be very true. The poor are the last people who can afford to buy discount retail in the long term. Draining all the money out of their own local economy and sending it far away. What I learned is that a really expensive pair of shoes will last decades, but everything else has to be replaced every 9 months - year and a half. The rents were lower in the 70's. It seems as the neighborhood commerce has dried up the rents have increased taking up all the slack. So there is no room left to grow neighborhood economies any more.

Ironic when one considers that we pay more in rent to live with less access to comerce generation.

Thoughts?
David Grouchy

I agree. Consumerism and planned obsolescence combined with the wealth stealing effects of a fiat currency have done a lot of damage to our nation. Add the loss of a sense of personal responsibility, the loss a solid fundamentals based education(replaced with social awareness based education), and the rise of the "entitlement class" all lead to the doom of freedom. We are watching the return of slavery. However it will not be "race based" this time. It will be the ultra rich enslaving all the rest.

I can't find anyone who can build me a couch.
Hell I can't find anyone who can even design a couch.
Remember when rulers and graph paper could be found at every convienence store.

But I'm waxing nostalgic.
I've read some comments over the last year
that sound like the newer generations have sharpened up
a few charges to levy against the previous generation for letting it get this bad.

We didn't.
The financial system cheated
and the culture of home grown crafts was decimated.

Remember, please.
Steve Wozniak built the first apple at his home.


David Grouchy

in the past 3 years of my life. I have purchased 2 new LCD flat screen TVs. On each of these TV's I didn't buy the extended warranty thinking "That's how they get ya!".
Boy was I wrong. After both of these TVs broke (in the exact same way) I learned that They still "Get ya". But here's how:
They make the Tech using cheap parts so that they break quickly.
New technology is released very quickly these days. So after about a year when your "old" tech breaks, you're forced to buy another new tv to get access to the new tech.

ITS BS.

A TV made in the 70 will still work today. A TV made in 2005 will be very crappy and probably won't even work today.

I'm picking up indications that the plan in the future
is to sell us a subscription instead of a TV.
But then we will be paying a monthly fee
for something that doesn't break.
Look for it near you soon!


David Grouchy

S & F. I am fortunate enough to have been raised by two parents who were handy with just about everything. My father was a carpenter, electrician, musician, professional driver and very politically literate. My mother was a gardener, musician, frequently made my brothers and I clothing and blankets herself, etc.

They raised us in the 80's as if we were still living back in the 50's or 60's. Because of them the four of us young men are Jack's-of-all-trades.

This has much to do with what runs this Nation of ours and that is the Good Old Dollar aka GOD.

As a young Manufacturing Engineer and beginning my career many moons ago for ATT when they were building their own computers used as telephone switches we were soon educated in the reward system of ....

"Cost Reductions".....which were Engineering solutions used to reduce the production costs.....often at the sacrifice of quality and that was generally ignored .....it was all about saving that 10 Cents per piece ....and making Management look all so Holy !

The Engineer knows that he'll be thrown a bone for his efforts of replacing that brass washer with a plastic/nylon one....that also subsequently wears out in time......but who cares ? he gets his added vacation time and gift certificate to give to the Wife to spend at the local big box store !

Everyone's Happy !
And why we are producing the crap that we are today....

In a nutshell that is what happened with Quality in America....and why the Transfer Case on my US Made Jeep doesn't shift the way it used to.....due to a cheap Plastic Washer used to align the shifter....that takes the better part of a day to get to and replace and the washer itself is only a few cents !

I refuse to buy another Jeep....Maybe I'll reverse cost reduce it and replace it with a brass equivalent like the original Jeeps did and why they lasted forever.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I agree. I am basically poor (by America's standards), but I even buy more expensive foods. Healthier food. It also ensures that my children don't eat too much. I could easily buy cheaper food, and have 3 times the amount. We could eat like we were kings everyday, but it would all be crap. I don't care how much money real chicken costs, I refuse to feed my children processed chicken nuggets, snack cakes or any of that crap. I buy local food as much as possible. It is more expensive, but me and my wife feel good about it, and our kids are getting a more balanced diet. Some people act like it's child abuse that we don't buy processed food, or fast food for our kids.

We also buy expensive shoes. I really liked that you used that example.

Quality before quanity. Do it for your kids. Do it for yourself. If it's too expensive, then cut some of the less important things from your budget. Like cable, DVD's, or novelty items. Quality food and clothes are what should be focused on, especially if you have kids. Treat them right.

I try to stay away from buying anything plastic as well.

Good thread.

"Off I fly, careering far
In chase of Pollys, prettier far
Than any of their namesakes are
—The Polymaths and Polyhistors,
Polyglots and all their sisters."

Title: The Devil Among Scholars
By: Thomas Moore

The Renaissance Ideal, the person who is a mathematician, architect, composer, engineer, musician, doctor, lawyer, and builder all rolled into one. This used to be the expected human ideal. But the field of knowledge has been so specialized into so many tiny categories that now one engineer usually has little understanding of another engineers field of work. There are like 800+ different degrees just in engineering alone. Hell I'll bet even Bill Gates doesn't know what windows is doing. Has humankind already designed itself out of the equation?


David Grouchy

reply to post by swoopaloop


Unfortunately the new TV's are Digital and are using lower power and much more sensitive electronics.

THe Old TV's were battle axes and used much bigger componentry which also more durable and resistant to noise on your power lines.

The fact that you have lost 2 TV's leads me to believe that you are suffering from noise on your power lines.
Especially if you have incurred a power outage lately.....that's really detrimental to any and all electronics.

Digital anything requires very clean noise free power.

You need to have a good ....I mean good surge protector that will prevent that crap from getting to your sensitive electronics. A good surge protector has filters ....a power strip does not.

The spikes on your power line are like trying to chew metal nuts and bolts in your cereal.
You could swallow them but it might end up damaging things downstream.

Get a good surge protector....something that is fast enough to trap the noise ...and besides they are cheaper than TV's.


Peace

Yes the quality of power generation is laughable.

We still have 1950's level dirty current splashing around
making sure to burn out bulbs and stuff.
But if I'm getting a real surge protector I'll go all the way for a UPS.
Nothing like having power when the neighbors are in the dark.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by swoopaloop
in the past 3 years of my life. I have purchased 2 new LCD flat screen TVs. On each of these TV's I didn't buy the extended warranty thinking "That's how they get ya!".
Boy was I wrong. After both of these TVs broke (in the exact same way) I learned that They still "Get ya". But here's how:
They make the Tech using cheap parts so that they break quickly.
New technology is released very quickly these days. So after about a year when your "old" tech breaks, you're forced to buy another new tv to get access to the new tech.

ITS BS.

A TV made in the 70 will still work today. A TV made in 2005 will be very crappy and probably won't even work today.

I can sum it up in three words "lead free solder" the formation of "Tin whiskers" will take out the equipment.

Some say the problem of "Tin whiskers" has been solved but the Chinese are still making and using this problem solder.

As its almost imposable to tell if this solder has been used because when the part shorts because of the tin whiskers they are also arced off and all you find is the component that was destroyed by the arc.

The Chinese don't care as they make a lot of money from replacements and because of all the new tech they always have prices higher.
The longer a product is made the lower the price. but by having new tech all the time they hold the price high.
and by having products that self destruct after time they always can sell this high priced new tech

In some cases the new tech is just a small change in a couple minor components that should not even change the price.

Some companies have gone so far as just changing cases and software with out any changes to the working components and claiming it was a whole new product.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


I actually used to work with the guy who wrote the original Windows NT. He wrote VMS...the original Virtual Memory based Operating System when we worked together....last time I saw him he was going to work for Cern Labs in Switzerland and then later I had heard that he went to work for Bill Gates at Microsoft.

Bill Gates was connected via his Mother to IBM and plagiarized DOS from another developer with the help of Paul Allen by changing a few lines and renaming it MS/DOS ...he then "licensed" his cloned software to IBM at a fraction of the cost of purchasing it individually from the original developer which IBM refused to pay.

This lease/License concept wasn't Gate's idea either it was how IBM sold their computers by Lease vs owning them outright due to the huge expense....

And why Microsoft charges you over and over again for the same basic system with only a new GUI interface....badge engineering. Like selling the same car over and over again with only new sheet metal year after year...


Bill Gates....at least he paid Paul Allen for what he was worth....have you seen his yacht ?

I don't get it, i take care of my stuff and it does not break. I buy American things when i can and do not have any problems. It is not always cheaper to get a new thing than get it repaired, yes cheap shoes cost more to repair but nice shoes are always cheaper to repair. Mine cost 200 dollars an i have had them for over 5 years now, it costs 25 bucks to get the soles fixed and i have only done that twice. Who is going to pay 25 dollars to get 20 dollar shoes fixed.
The repairman has only himself to blame for going out of business, why as a businessman he would charge more than his alternative is just a bad decision. And sometimes things just go out the window as society changes. You think the guy that made horse drawn carriages did not have a few good arguments when the car became popular?

Originally posted by nh_ee

Bill Gates....at least he paid Paul Allen for what he was worth....have you seen his yacht ?

How many Millionaires did Bill Gates create?

The ensuing rise of stock in the company's 1986 initial public offering (IPO) made an estimated four billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees.

And how many Millionaires did Steve Jobs create?

When Apple went public, it generated more capital than any IPO since Ford Motor Company in 1956 and instantly created more millionaires (about 300) than any company in history.

I think Gates is one of us. (Grouch ducks a drink thrown at his face)
He broke in with the other hackers, stole computing, and gave it to the people like prometheus.
I don't think TPTB ever intended for us to be able to have this conversation
as quickly and as world wide as the internet has made availiable.
There are already indications that control is creeping into the web.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by PrimalRed
You think the guy that made horse drawn carriages did not have a few good arguments when the car became popular?

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
Thank you for that.



Yes, I dare say, he did have some arguments.
And he still does. In my book.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Hear Here!!
One Hundred and fifty percent I do agree.
The saying was Kmart fall apart, if you remember.
I have spent more time accumulating tools of all sorts than any other collection I have.
Of course I have hard core kitchen tools as well, but I can build and or repair quite alot.
Do I have it all, heck no but someday I will.
We have become a disposable crap buying society, but I for one will not participate.

Off/on topic personal rant but true story:
Just last night, the wife and I had a small tiff.
The family xmas party is this weekend, although I'm no cristian I go to support my wife and her misguided ideas.
We have a gift exchange and the rule is we pick one person out of the hat last year and this year we get that person a gift around ten bucks...
What a waste in my eyes, but I was asked what I want, I replied "I don't but if you must, it better not have anything stamped on it other than Made in USA".
I said if it does, I will promptly take it to the front yard and burn said trash, I feel all of this crap we buy is killing us literally.
So, the wife got angry with me, she's over it now....christians have to forgive if you ask them....suckers!!!

We need to start manufacturing things here in the US or the dreams our forefathers had and built will die.
Plain as that.

In my garage, I have my grandfathers tire gauge. It is all brass, with a brass blade or tongue with the increments etched in it. He acquired it in the late 1940s.

The company that made it has been out of business for 60 years. Once you got one of their gauges, you never needed another one.

Where as the cheap imported pocket gauge with plastic parts is inaccurate after it's been dropped once. But then, you buy another one, and another one.... and one about every 3 years for the rest of your life. Meanwhile, the antique is passed down generation after generation with no discernible wear.

The bad penny drives out the good.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Good observation.
We used to buy bigger hard drives, now we can put our info "In the cloud".
We used to buy a board game or a video game, now we subscribe to online games.
We used to get TV reception for free, now we pay a cable company to be bombarded with commercials.
It is not the initial product where they get you but the addon sales, contracts, subscritions.
You are right. Unfortunately...

Unfortunately due to inflation and the dollar being taken away from the GOLD Standard in the 70's we are battling a constantly devaluing currency and a moving target.

A business cannot survive if the cost of materials is increasing faster than they can produce and profit.
This is what is driving businesses offshore.

Thats why it requires $1700. Dollars now to buy ONE Ounce of GOLD.
Whereas in 1947 during the Bretton Woods Accord when the US Dollar was made the Reserve Currency....it only required about $40. per ounce.

This has much to do with why we don't produce much of anything in the US any longer and as to why it's moved to China mainly because it's TOO Expensive to produce.

I bought American years ago when purchasing my 98 Jeep Cherokee XJ over a Toyota 4Runner which cost considerably more.

The Jeep has been a very good and reliable Vehicle. And I am glad that I did because it provided some Americans to have jobs and support their families.

But you can see where it's been cost reduced in the quality of the materials ....and as I'd mentioned earlier....the damn plastic washer on my transfer case shifter which wants to lock my Jeep in 4x4....which isn't good.

I owned a 89 Toyota 4Runner before and never had a mechanical problem whatsoever with her.

But ....having worked in manufacturing and seen first hand what drives business...and engineering..
We are where we are due to a steadily declining and worthless Dollar.

Commonly know as Inflation.

Plain and Simple.


Peace