What if a lost ancient civilization had telescopes and balloons?, page 4

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reply posted on 17-12-2011 @ 08:31 AM by tom.farnhill

reply to post by Harte

there is no mystery in the nasca lines , it was done using the three staff system.
by lining up the three staffs in a line and sighting them the same as you would do with the sights on a rifle,
using this system you can obtain perfectly straight lines that could go on for miles .

reply posted on 17-12-2011 @ 11:09 AM by Hanslune

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by Hanslune

Dear, dear Hans,

Hans: This is a poor example of scholarship and an attempt at deception on your part; we know that, you know that, and the people reading this know that.

SC: If you can't attack the theory, attack the author. I get it as I am sure most reading this thread will. Alas, you ought to know me better by now - I don't respond to ad hominems. If you can't fight fairly then get out the ring.

Sorry old man I was attacking your faulty scholarly technique, which is fair game my friend, and I so I mentioned it : Perhaps we should call your idea

'Dicta scotta'. This would be when presenting an image and stating that it means 'x' it is acceptable not to show the inscription associated with it, its interpretation, while also stating said orthodox translation is silly'

Now to balloons:

Here is the problem one has with round balloons - they spin in a wind but your idea has a worse problem. If your balloon ascends - what good does it do them? The shape of the pyramid - of course rises away from them. So they would now need a guiding mechanism (rope) to draw then over to align with the slope of the pyramid. Now what happens to a round balloon held by two ropes? Yep it spins on its axis- but wait you have it lifting a heavy weight, which will cause it not to spin. This will create a great deal of strain on where the two ropes attach. Now as you don't appear to have any balloon experience I leave you with a thought: think sailing ships and the power of the wind.

Perhaps you should speak to people who do ballooning and work with tethered balloons - there is a reason people haven't used this method of carrying stuff up

Let us say the balloon has been gotten up, then dragged over so it can drop it load on the pryamid - how does the balloon get down? Either deflate or winch it down - which did the Egyptians do?

reply posted on 17-12-2011 @ 12:44 PM by Harte

Originally posted by tom.farnhill
reply to post by Harte

there is no mystery in the nasca lines , it was done using the three staff system.
by lining up the three staffs in a line and sighting them the same as you would do with the sights on a rifle,
using this system you can obtain perfectly straight lines that could go on for miles .

I've argued your very point before. The same thing is true for stone circles, and even laying out the GP to the degree of accuracy it has regarding North-South alignment.

Did I give any impression otherwise?

Didn't mean to.

Harte

reply posted on 17-12-2011 @ 02:48 PM by Scott Creighton

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by Hanslune

Dear, dear Hans,

Hans: This is a poor example of scholarship and an attempt at deception on your part; we know that, you know that, and the people reading this know that.

SC: If you can't attack the theory, attack the author. I get it as I am sure most reading this thread will. Alas, you ought to know me better by now - I don't respond to ad hominems. If you can't fight fairly then get out the ring.

Hans: Sorry old man I was attacking your faulty scholarly technique, which is fair game my friend, and I so I mentioned it : Perhaps we should call your idea

'Dicta scotta'. This would be when presenting an image and stating that it means 'x' it is acceptable not to show the inscription associated with it, its interpretation, while also stating said orthodox translation is silly'

SC: Except no one but orthodox Egyptologists have said "...it means x...", have they? All that I have said is that the relief in the Temple of Hathor at Dendera could plausibly be interpreted as inflating a hot air balloon. Show me where I have insisted that my visual interpretation is correct? And what would be the point in presenting the inscription associated with this relief? How many exactly on this Forum could read the hieroglyphs? Don't be so damned absurd! And as for the orthodox translation of the relief - I did state it. Go back and look.

Hans: Now to balloons: Here is the problem one has with round balloons - they spin in a wind ...

SC: Except they do not have to be round (spherical) balloons - virtually any envelope shape with sufficient cubic volume would do. The reliefs in Dendera do not look like spherical balloons, do they?

Hans: ....but your idea has a worse problem. If your balloon ascends - what good does it do them?

SC: They get a nice view of the Nile? They can now perform a religious ceremony that mimics Ra's journey across the sky in his solar barque? Take your pick.

Hans: The shape of the pyramid - of course rises away from them. So they would now need a guiding mechanism (rope) to draw then over to align with the slope of the pyramid.

SC: Ah - you're talking now about my hypothesis of using balloons to build pyramids. See my previous diagram (posted again below):

As stated, the balloon in the diagram (above) does not have to be spherical. I used this shape (in my diagram) simply for diagramtic purposes because it's the shape we moderns most associate with a hot air balloon.

Hans: Now what happens to a round balloon held by two ropes? Yep it spins on its axis- but wait you have it lifting a heavy weight, which will cause it not to spin. This will create a great deal of strain on where the two ropes attach.

SC: Again - it doesn't have to be a spherical balloon. The method of attaching the load would not be an insurmountable problem. These people were excellent engineers.

Hans: Now as you don't appear to have any balloon experience I leave you with a thought: think sailing ships and the power of the wind.

Perhaps you should speak to people who do ballooning and work with tethered balloons - there is a reason people haven't used this method of carrying stuff up.

SC: Yes, because in modern times we have cranes which are much more efficient at this particular task. Doesn't mean the pyramid builders couldn't have found a way to make hot air balloons work. Some small ramps from the quarries to the lifting site near the base of the pyramid. Some round holes around the pyramid base for anchor posts. Some deep pits around the base of the pyramid to create a furnace for the hot air. Any of this sound familliar?

Hans: Let us say the balloon has been gotten up, then dragged over so it can drop it load on the pryamid - how does the balloon get down? Either deflate or winch it down - which did the Egyptians do?

SC: See my diagram. The balloon would simply go up and down, pulling the winch that draws the load up the side of the pyramid. It doesn't need to be "...dragged over...". This is just one possibility - I'm sure there could be any number of configurations to make it work. As for bringing the balloon down. Well, it will naturally come down of its own accord anyway as the air inside the envelope reaches equilibrium with atmospheric pressure. Or, you simply have a second rope which you use to wind down the balloon (see my use of the Djed pillar). This could be driven by a couple of oxen. Again - not insurmountable problems.

And thanks for washing your mouth out. It is far better to read your posts without your silly ad hominems.

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

edit on 17/12/2011 by Scott Creighton because: Clarification.

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 02:01 AM by Hanslune

This is full image of the art in question the full image not the cropped one:

Since you wouldn't provide them here are the FULL translation associated with the room and image in it:

But judge for yourself:

Complete text of the south wall:

Bandeau de la frise:

Resomtus is alive with gloss in the sky (and) lives at the day of the New Year celebration. He lights up in its house in the night of the child in his nest, by donating the light to the country from the birth bricks. The sky is jubilant, the earth is pleased and the God chapels is glad, when he appears in his chamber in his procession barge at his beautiful celebration of the New Year.
The God with his disk has come to see him. Nehebkau gives him reputation, and the goddess with her disk, with godly body, rejuvenates him in his sanctuary.
Tchnt tpjt jnr (probably the goddess Thoeeris, a birth goddess) is content because of her majesty. She praises Re because of him with praise for his Ka, with wine from schfjt (wine area) and meat bits on the altar before him.
The "land-of-Atum" (= Dendera) is prepared with his most distinguished plan, as Hu and Sia are subordinated to him. He may protect the son of Re (empty king cartouche), forever.

Title of the south wall:
Bringing of the amuletts (Pektoral) made of gold.
Speak: To speak words: This is the protection of your majesty for the celebration, in ktmt gold.

Ihi: Words to speak of Ihi, the great, the son of the Hathor, the noble child with shining plait: I please your heart with glories for your person, and I drive rage out with spells.

King: The king of upper and lower Egypt (cartouche with the name of Ptolemaeus XII.), the son of Re (cartouche with another name of the same king).

Royal edge line
I came to you, to your place (destroyed section). Beautiful one, whose looks are perfect. I have the Amulet of gold (destroyed section) attached with live on the day of the celebration (destroyed section) of your body.

Isis: Words to speak of Isis, the great, the gods mother, lady of jat dj, who stays in Dendera, the beginning with whose arrival the earth began, turquoise skin and lapislazuli like head.

Harsomtus: Words to speak of Harsomtus, the great god who stays in Dendera. Gold, height: 4 hands. Made of metal the Day barge, the lotos flower from gold (this section is about the statues kept here, which were brought upward (room G)).

Harsomtus: Words to speak of Harsomtus, the great God, who stays in Dendera, the multicolored-feathered who is on the Serech. Gold. Height: 1 cubit. (the falcon on the relief is meant)

Ihi: Words to speak of Ihi, the great, the son of the Hathor, Re in its shape of the great God, who appears with the diadem as a king of jztj (Egypt)and as a master of the Sed festival,: You reign Dendera millionfold from the nhh eternity to the completion of the Djed eternity. Gold. Height: 1 cubit.

Harsomtus: Words to speak of Harsomtus, the great, who stays in Dendera, the living Ba in the Lotus flower of the day barge, whose perfection the two arms of the Djed pillar carry as its seschemw picture, while the Ka's on its knees are with bent arms. Gold. All precious stones, height: 3 hands.

Harsomtus: Words to speak of Harsomtus, the great, who stays in Dendera, who is in the arms of the princes in the night barge, the noble snake, whose chntj statue carries Heh, whose crew carries his perfection in holyness, because of whose Ba the appearing (Hathor) in the sky appeared, whose shape is admired by admirers, who comes as unique, enveloped by his head serpents, with numerous names at the point of chw.n=sn (Gods with relationship with the Hathor), the sechm-picture of Re in the "Land-Of-Atum" (= Dendera), the father of the Gods, who created everything. Gold, metal, height: 4 hands.

Isis: Words to speak of Isis, the great, mother of the Gods, lady of jat dj, who stays in Dendera, the queen of the rchjt people, with pointed horns.

Edge line of the Gods
Come in peace, servant of his Lord, as the chw djeser priests are subordinated to you, and you protect my throat with your trusty behavior. I have myself pleased about the freshness of your character. Gold. Height: 1 cubit.

edit on 18/12/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 02:25 AM by Hanslune

reply to post by Scott Creighton

Now to Scott

Except no one but orthodox Egyptologists have said "...it means x...", have they?

Yes thanks for observing the obvious, lol, others have translated in other ways, mainly the light bulb people

All that I have said is that the relief in the Temple of Hathor at Dendera could plausibly be interpreted as inflating a hot air balloon. Show me where I have insisted that my visual interpretation is correct?

Okay then you are now saying you are wrong - do you have to 'insist' something is right for us to be allowed to disagree with you? Lol … if you do insist what difference does it make?

And what would be the point in presenting the inscription associated with this relief?

So people would know what the people who made the image said about it– you know – common sense scholarship, ie showing the entire image, and what the writing on it says….

How many exactly on this Forum could read the hieroglyphs?

Scott please stop playing dumb, lol. You know I meant a translation. But showing the full image with the inscription is helpful. You will note above I posted the full image not the cropped one

Don't be so damned absurd! And as for the orthodox translation of the relief - I did state it. Go back and look

Did you now – I just put up the entire translation and it took a full page and you have been insisting that you had no need to do so???

SC: Except they do not have to be round (spherical) balloons - virtually any envelope shape with sufficient cubic volume would do. The reliefs in Dendera do not look like spherical balloons, do they?
Again - it doesn't have to be a spherical balloon. The method of attaching the load would not be an insurmountable problem. These people were excellent engineers.

Then why did you give up round mirrors with wings as ‘proof’ of balloons? The one image you have is an oblong shape-that would be unstable without fins – why no fins?

SC: Yes, because in modern times we have cranes which are much more efficient at this particular task. Doesn't mean the pyramid builders couldn't have found a way to make hot air balloons work. Some small ramps from the quarries to the lifting site near the base of the pyramid. Some round holes around the pyramid base for anchor posts. Some deep pits around the base of the pyramid to create a furnace for the hot air. Any of this sound familliar?

You avoided the question, the question is why don’t you get the expert opinion of those who work with balloons – they should be able to give you an accurate description of what would occur in a wind with your idea

SC: See my diagram.

My apologies, I missed that you were using it as lift-drag. Now you need to address the affect of wind on this methodology. If you have a wind from the west; the balloon the west side will be pushed into the pyramid, the two on the north and south will be canted to the east and the one to east will be pushed away. You also failed to address what occurs in gusty weather, which is very common on the Giza plateau. You again need to address the forces of sheer against tethered balloons versus a wind.

And thanks for washing your mouth out.

I didn’t because I was speaking the truth….which must sounds odd to you

Ran out of space on the message above Link

edit on 18/12/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 10:14 AM by Scott Creighton

reply to post by Hanslune

Hello Hans,

SC: Nice to see that you were able to Google Frank D’s site. It wasn’t so difficult was it? Just as it wouldn’t have been for anyone else who might have wished to see the full translated texts.

SC: Except no one but orthodox Egyptologists have said "...it means x...", have they?

Hans: Yes thanks for observing the obvious, lol, others have translated in other ways, mainly the light bulb people.

SC: But you keep missing the point – there is a mighty big difference between interpreting (i.e. transliterating) texts and knowing what they are actually meaning. We can have the words (or most of them) and still have little idea of the meaning behind those words. You only have to look at the mess Egyptologists get themselves into in trying to understand the Pyramid Texts to see what I mean.

SC: All that I have said is that the relief in the Temple of Hathor at Dendera could plausibly be interpreted as inflating a hot air balloon. Show me where I have insisted that my visual interpretation is correct?

Hans: Okay then you are now saying you are wrong –

SC: No – absolutely not, though I could be. And so could Egyptology in its feeble attempts to understand the meaning of these reliefs at Dendera.

SC: And what would be the point in presenting the inscription associated with this relief?

Hans: So people would know what the people who made the image said about it– you know – common sense scholarship, ie showing the entire image, and what the writing on it says….

SC: How many exactly on this Forum could read the hieroglyphs?

Hans: Scott please stop playing dumb, lol. You know I meant a translation.

SC: No – what you wrote was: “…This would be when presenting an image and stating that it means 'x' it is acceptable not to show the inscription associated with it, its interpretation, while also stating said orthodox translation is silly…” You state quite clearly the “inscription” AND “its interpretation”. So, how many here on ATS do you think can read hieroglyphic inscriptions? The orthodox “interpretation” of this scene in these reliefs is that it represents Horus being reborn from a Lotus flower. I stated that interpretation in my opening post. Go look.

Hans: But showing the full image with the inscription is helpful. You will note above I posted the full image not the cropped one

SC: Well that’s nice of you. But it changes nothing.

SC: Don't be so damned absurd! And as for the orthodox translation of the relief - I did state it. Go back and look

Hans: Did you now – I just put up the entire translation and it took a full page and you have been insisting that you had no need to do so???

SC: See above.

SC: Again - it doesn't have to be a spherical balloon. The method of attaching the load would not be an insurmountable problem. These people were excellent engineers.

Hans: Then why did you give up round mirrors with wings as ‘proof’ of balloons? The one image you have is an oblong shape-that would be unstable without fins – why no fins?

SC: So what! They may well have had hot air balloons of different shapes, for different purposes. Why do you think the so-called ‘Mirror of Isis’ is – almost without exception – shown with wings?

SC: Yes, because in modern times we have cranes which are much more efficient at this particular task. Doesn't mean the pyramid builders couldn't have found a way to make hot air balloons work. Some small ramps from the quarries to the lifting site near the base of the pyramid. Some round holes around the pyramid base for anchor posts. Some deep pits around the base of the pyramid to create a furnace for the hot air. Any of this sound familliar?

Hans: You avoided the question, the question is why don’t you get the expert opinion of those who work with balloons – they should be able to give you an accurate description of what would occur in a wind with your idea

SC: And I answered that question earlier in the thread. If I can be bothered I might just do that.

Continued.........

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 10:15 AM by Scott Creighton

reply to post by Hanslune

Continued.....

SC: See my diagram.

Hans: My apologies, I missed that you were using it as lift-drag. Now you need to address the affect of wind on this methodology. If you have a wind from the west; the balloon the west side will be pushed into the pyramid, the two on the north and south will be canted to the east and the one to east will be pushed away. You also failed to address what occurs in gusty weather, which is very common on the Giza plateau. You again need to address the forces of sheer against tethered balloons versus a wind.

SC: Never heard of guy-ropes?

When operating a crane, guy wires known as tag lines may be connected to unwieldy payloads, allowing ground crew to control rotation and swaying while maintaining a safe distance. – source.

SC: And thanks for washing your mouth out.

Hans: I didn’t because I was speaking the truth….which must sounds odd to you

SC: You accused me of deception – a blatant lie. So yes – it is odd that you claim to speak the truth. So, as I told you before – go and wash your mouth out.

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

edit on 18/12/2011 by Scott Creighton because: Fix Typo.

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 01:01 PM by Hanslune

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by Hanslune

SC: Never heard of guy-ropes?

Yes but you don't seem to have; you would need four to have any chance of controlling the balloon, and they need to be strong enough to hold it against a gust. As the pyramid is approximately 145 meters high you'd need four guide ropes of at least 325 meters in lenght (towards the end of construction) not to count the the work rope.

So about 1.5 kilometers of rope - at least a six inch hawser might hold, care to guess the weight of all that?

Oh and since you are using a drag lift that means you have increase the load by the weight of the sledge and the of lost x 4 efficiency - this means you will need 20 tons of lift - not counting the guide rope weight and the weight of the heavy reinforcement to secure those heavy guide ropes to the linen balloon....but wait to lift that amount of weight you now need to greatly increase the size of the balloon which will then require bigger guide ropes and more reinforcement. Additionally you now have bigger balloon and more surface area to be affected by wind...bit of a problem eh?

You appear to not understand the affects of wind on balloons - I would suggest you look at the history of early airships and what the disasters they endured when the tried to fight the wind.

SC: You accused me of deception – a blatant lie. So yes – it is odd that you claim to speak the truth. So, as I told you before – go and wash your mouth out.

Really Scott your 'leaving' out the inscription was deception, plain and simple, you did so with malice and forethought, lol. It didn't support your contention so you discarded it. Good for fringe adversial truth but very bad for real scientific truth.

edit on 18/12/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 01:36 PM by Hanslune

reply to post by Scott Creighton

] Hello Hans,

SC: Nice to see that you were able to Google Frank D’s site. It wasn’t so difficult was it? Just as it wouldn’t have been for anyone else who might have wished to see the full translated texts.

Lol, still trying to justify your leaving out the inscription and translation Scott? Again why did you leave off the translation of the cropped photo you used to try and convince people it was of a ‘balloon’?

SC: But you keep missing the point – there is a mighty big difference between interpreting (i.e. transliterating) texts and knowing what they are actually meaning. We can have the words (or most of them) and still have little idea of the meaning behind those words. You only have to look at the mess Egyptologists get themselves into in trying to understand the Pyramid Texts to see what I mean.

Lol, a guy who cannot read AE is saying all the translations are wrong, except of course for

those that you use to support ‘your Giza plan from {unknown place but originally Atlantis}’ idea

. Why are those correct but all others – that you don’t like, are wrong?

SC: No – absolutely not, though I could be. And so could Egyptology in its feeble attempts to understand the meaning of these reliefs at Dendera.

In your humble opinion but I’d believe them over a guy who cannot read them and thinks art work showing a religious concept in a temple is actually the use of a balloon from 2,000 years before this image was made? You did read what the AE wrote didn't you? On what pretext do you ignore what they say?

SC: And what would be the point in presenting the inscription associated with this relief?

Sorry no you said

[Quote] Incidentally, the orthodox interpretation of this scene at Dendera typically invokes a religious ceremony of Horus being born from a lotus flower. Indeed. (orthodox tend to resort to religious symbolism whenever they really haven't a clue what it is they are looking at).

I said

Wouldn't it be better to just put the translation of the inscriptions next to the images and let the readers decide?

The full uncropped image of the Dendera image

SC: Well that’s nice of you. But it changes nothing.

Actually it does, it shows you used a cropped photo to leave out those parts that didn’t support your story – and especially the inscriptions...why was that again?

Hans: Did you now – I just put up the entire translation and it took a full page and you have been insisting that you had no need to do so???

Do the translations of the inscription support your contention of a ‘balloon’? What by the way is the hieroglyph of a balloon? I mean they must have used balloons for generations to put up those pyramids but never came up with a sign for it? Oh in the workers village what is the title of the guy who runs the balloons?

SC: So what! They may well have had hot air balloons of different shapes, for different purposes. Why do you think the so-called ‘Mirror of Isis’is – almost without exception – shown with wings?

Because that is how the AE represented her. You mean you think - without evidence - that they had different types of balloons

SC: And I answered that question earlier in the thread. If I can be bothered I might just do that.

So Scott still refuse to obtain expert advice and knowledge on handling balloons? No point in getting real information, eh? Easier to stick to the stuff you make up. You really, really don't understand the difficulties of working with tethered balloons in a wind nor the implications of using lift to drag stones up a ramp.

Oh! Now that you have a full copy of the translations – you have no reason to not go thru it line by line and show how it supports your contentions of the AE using balloons. Isn't that just a fine idea?

edit on 18/12/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 07:05 PM by Scott Creighton

SC: Never heard of guy-ropes?

Hans: Yes but you don't seem to have; you would need four to have any chance of controlling the balloon, and they need to be strong enough to hold it against a gust. As the pyramid is approximately 145 meters high you'd need four guide ropes of at least 325 meters in lenght (towards the end of construction) not to count the the work rope.

SC: You have a main ‘anchor rope’ as shown in my diagram. The guy-ropes need only be fairly light ropes – if, of course, they are required at all. You are no balloon expert. Neither am I. If the theory is ever tested at Giza then, and only then, we will know. Until then…..

Hans: So about 1.5 kilometers of rope - at least a six inch hawser might hold, care to guess the weight of all that?

SC: See above.

Hans: Oh and since you are using a drag lift that means you have increase the load by the weight of the sledge and the of lost x 4 efficiency - this means you will need 20 tons of lift - not counting the guide rope weight and the weight of the heavy reinforcement to secure those heavy guide ropes to the linen balloon....but wait to lift that amount of weight you now need to greatly increase the size of the balloon which will then require bigger guide ropes and more reinforcement. Additionally you now have bigger balloon and more surface area to be affected by wind...bit of a problem eh?

SC: You are no balloon expert. Neither am I. If the theory is ever tested at Giza then, and only then, we will know. Until then…..

Hans: You appear to not understand the affects of wind on balloons - I would suggest you look at the history of early airships and what the disasters they endured when the tried to fight the wind.

SC: You are no balloon expert. Neither am I. If the theory is ever tested at Giza then, and only then, we will know. Until then…..

SC: You accused me of deception – a blatant lie. So yes – it is odd that you claim to speak the truth. So, as I told you before – go and wash your mouth out.

Hans: Really Scott your 'leaving' out the inscription was deception, plain and simple,…

SC: In your simple mind perhaps. Few, if any here on ATS, could even read the inscriptions.

Hans:… you did so with malice and forethought, lol.

SC: Really? Prove it. You really do have a penchant for hyperbole, don’t you! I honestly don’t know why I waste my time with you because normally I have no time for idiots since I well understand that they only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Get a grip, Hans - you are better than this idiocy.

It didn't support your contention so you discarded it. Good for fringe adversial truth but very bad for real scientific truth.

SC: Talking wet again, I see. The simple fact is – and you can deny it all you like if it helps to sooth your orthodox sensitivities – the objects in the reliefs at Dendera appear like hot air balloons being inflated. The are shown in horizontal fashion being inflated and then in vertical fashion as though inflated and flying. These ‘balloons’ are presented in the context of Horus – the AE god of the sky and also with Heh, the AE god of air. The AEs had the materials to make a hot air balloon that could easily lift two average pyramid blocks, including the balloon weight and ropes. They could also, undoubtedly, ensure they were controlled – they were clever engineers. These are the facts. But do they prove the AEs actually used balloons? No, of course they don’t and I have always conceded this all the way through this thread. So you can imagine the mighty big smile on my face seeing how hard you are going at trying to debunk this idea. Honestly - it’s truly comical – you just can’t help yourself, can you?

Fact of the matter is this – I will never be able to prove the AE used such a technique. But neither will you or any other closed-minded eejitologist ever be able to disprove it. Deal with it and get over it.

SC: Nice to see that you were able to Google Frank D’s site. It wasn’t so difficult was it? Just as it wouldn’t have been for anyone else who might have wished to see the full translated texts.

Hans: Lol, still trying to justify your leaving out the inscription and translation Scott? Again why did you leave off the translation of the cropped photo you used to try and convince people it was of a ‘balloon’?

SC: No. I don’t have to. You seem to have this idea that people can’t use the internet for themselves to find better images of these reliefs. You think I don’t know people could do that in a matter of seconds on the internet and discover the truth of the situation for themselves? Of course I know people could do that so why do you get this idea that I think I could somehow hide this from people? So you are simply mud-slinging in the hope that something will stick. Try harder, bub.

Continued...

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 07:12 PM by Scott Creighton

SC: But you keep missing the point – there is a mighty big difference between interpreting (i.e. transliterating) texts and knowing what they are actually meaning. We can have the words (or most of them) and still have little idea of the meaning behind those words. You only have to look at the mess Egyptologists get themselves into in trying to understand the Pyramid Texts to see what I mean.

Hans: Lol, a guy who cannot read AE ….

SC: Doing a lot of lol(ing). Are you becoming hysterical? Go through ATS and you will find I can read hieroglyphs better than some of the supposed experts on this Forum.

Hans: ….is saying all the translations are wrong,

SC: Why do you insist on making yourself look a complete plonker? The translations of texts MIGHT be wrong but the MEANING may be even more so. As they say – a picture paints a thousand words and this picture at Dendera could be reasonably interpreted as a hot air balloon being inflated, ESPECIALLY in the context of the gods present – the AE god of the sky and god of the air. If you think that such cannot be seen in these reliefs you are deluding yourself.

Hans: ….except of course for those that you use to support ‘your Giza plan from {unknown place but originally Atlantis}’ idea

SC: You were talking rubbish before. Now you’re talking complete rubbish. Stick to the topic.

Hans: Why are those correct but all others – that you don’t like, are wrong?

SC: Is that so? Well, since you seem to be implying here that you are such an expert - explain the MEANING of the texts from Dendera. Then present evidence that your interpretation is true and correct.

SC: No – absolutely not, though I could be. And so could Egyptology in its feeble attempts to understand the meaning of these reliefs at Dendera.

Hans: In your humble opinion but I’d believe them over a guy who cannot read them and thinks art work showing a religious concept in a temple is actually the use of a balloon from 2,000 years before this image was made? You did read what the AE wrote didn't you? On what pretext do you ignore what they say?

SC: On the pretext that what they write is an interpretation that could be wrong. On the pretext that what they write might not MEAN what we interpret it to mean. See above. Explain the MEANING of the texts from Dendera. Then present evidence that the meaning you attribute to the translation is true and correct.

SC: And what would be the point in presenting the inscription associated with this relief?

Hans: Sorry no you said

SC: Incidentally, the orthodox interpretation of this scene at Dendera typically invokes a religious ceremony of Horus being born from a lotus flower. Indeed. (orthodox tend to resort to religious symbolism whenever they really haven't a clue what it is they are looking at).

Hans: I said. Wouldn't it be better to just put the translation of the inscriptions next to the images and let the readers decide?

SC: Stop lying. It’s plain to see what you said. It’s right here in this thread for everyone to see. You asked for the inscriptions and their translation. I presented the most pertinent point of the translation – ergo that orthodox Egyptology sees this relief in religious terms whereby Horus is born from a lotus flower.

Hans: The full uncropped image of the Dendera image

SC: So what does the full uncropped image show that helps bolster the orthodox interpretation? Do tell.

SC: Well that’s nice of you. But it changes nothing.

Hans: Actually it does,

SC: Actually, don’t you ever get tired of talking such rubbish?

Hans: …it shows you used a cropped photo to leave out those parts that didn’t support your story – and especially the inscriptions...why was that again?

SC: Specifically – which parts have I left out that does not support my interpretation?

Hans: Did you now – I just put up the entire translation and it took a full page and you have been insisting that you had no need to do so???

Hans: Do the translations of the inscription support your contention of a ‘balloon’? What by the way is the hieroglyph of a balloon? I mean they must have used balloons for generations to put up those pyramids but never came up with a sign for it? Oh in the workers village what is the title of the guy who runs the balloons?

SC: I think Egyptologists interpreted it as the ‘Mirror(s) of Isis”. If you think Egyptology has interpreted every AE hieroglyph you are seriously deluding yourself. They can’t even interpret the name “Khufu” properly, for goodness sake.

Continued.....

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 07:13 PM by Scott Creighton

SC: So what! They may well have had hot air balloons of different shapes, for different purposes. Why do you think the so-called ‘Mirror of Isis’is – almost without exception – shown with wings?

Hans: Because that is how the AE represented her. You mean you think - without evidence - that they had different types of balloons

SC: Fine depicting Isis with wings – but why attach wings to the ‘mirror’? There are numerous examples.

SC: And I answered that question earlier in the thread. If I can be bothered I might just do that.

Hans: So Scott still refuse to obtain expert advice and knowledge on handling balloons? No point in getting real information, eh? Easier to stick to the stuff you make up. You really, really don't understand the difficulties of working with tethered balloons in a wind nor the implications of using lift to drag stones up a ramp.

SC: And one day, if I can be bothered, I might actually research it more. I might even get a project team together to attempt to raise one 2.5 ton limestone block onto another using a hot air balloon at Giza. Would make an interesting NatGeo/Discovery Channel documentary, don’t you think?

Hans: Oh! Now that you have a full copy of the translations – you have no reason to not go thru it line by line and show how it supports your contentions of the AE using balloons. Isn't that just a fine idea?

SC: There are parts of the inscriptions that are missing, there are parts that are still untranslated – so no, I am not going to proceed on such a basis. Like I said – the picture paints a thousand words.

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

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