National guard unit refuses to answer questionaire about using lethal force on Americans Updated

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Updated the thread with some disgusting info...

I just heard from Devon. He was TX’d by his Plt LDR and advised that the Specialist Who first layed down his weapon is being held in county jail by the Bn CMDR, awaiting a hearing under the UCMJ.

Seriously, those bastards need to face a court martial for punishing the specialist who did the right thing!

I agree completely with your view on this.

My only question is this why did the personnel not take the poll and fill in how they felt about the questions? They could have avoided court martial and still got their point across by filling out the poll with their feelings as to the issue.
If they would have taken the poll they would not be facing court martial, it just sounds like they where probably ordered to take the poll, and when they refused their CO decided it was "disobeying a direct order".

Originally posted by Masterjaden
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

You couldn't answer no....

If you think they could just answer no, then you don't understand the purpose of the questionaire.

The purpose of such a questionaire is for troop knowledge and assignment.

They will not assign troops who answer NO to any units that they will ask to do so. That would lead to refusal of the unlawful orders.

They will only assign troops who answered yes.

The only way to prevent action from actually being taken is to make sure that they don't KNOW who would and who wouldn't.

Which means only if they refuse to answer the questionaire.

Jaden

That would make sense except for from what I understand the poll was to taken anonymously, so that idea doesn't hold water.

Don't jump the gun to fast here ATS'ers. National Guard units are under the control of the Governor of the state. So my question is who actually slipped the survey to the National guard unit. The State Governor or the U.S. Government. If the Governor done this, then this survey needs to be brought fourth to light of the people of that state, i.e let that survey be known. If it was our U.S. Government then I question the Governors integrity of that state by letting the regular military slip that survey in, because they have no official command of that guard unit. It starts and stops with Governor of that state.

My personal take on this is some elected official found a joke of Governor to slip this survey in for some kind of research, sort of testing the waters to see if the troops will follow such an order. This kind of survey would never see the light of day in the regular active duty U.S. Forces, because there would be such a back lash from the troops , it would under mind the current mission(s). Thus you have upheaval though the ranks. Not to mention it would have to be approved by the Joint chiefs. So why slip the survey to a national guard unit? If there is a back lash from the troops the Governor would feel the full force of public as an ineffective leader for putting forth such non sense in the first place. ( the Governor is scrape goat, if things go bad.)

As for the Commander of the unit. it cleanly shows his troops do not stand with him on this. I personally think this commander should have never let that survey see the light of day to his troops. He should have called the general in charge of the national guard units in that state and demanded a staff meeting to include the governor. If that did not work, to then arrange a meeting with a local congressman the same people whom gave him that commission. This whole situation points back to the Governor office of that state and a political party. I as a former senior officer I never seen such a survey in my career, This reeks of some political parties agenda. There are many good officer in our military I would say about 98 percent of them would be so PO'ed at something like this. This National Guard unit commander is not one of the those officers.

This gets interesting here.

just heard from Devon. He was TX’d by his Plt LDR and advised that the Specialist Who first layed down his weapon is being held in county jail by the Bn CMDR, awaiting a hearing under the UCMJ. Devon couldn’t get any more info than that. I don’t want to post the mans name until we have more information. I am so upset by this that I am having chest pains. How can they do this to one soldier and not them all. I will let you know how things go. Think I might go lay down for a bit. SEMPER FI.

The most this person could get under the UCMJ is an Article 15 for not filling out the form. 30 days pay ,some extra duty. why they put this guy in a local jail speaks volumes to me about where this survey came from; someone wants to scare him. Let me say again It starts and stops with the Governors of that state. This guy should have a JAG officer appointed to him ASAP. His request should be to the active duty jag office so this does not get snuffed at the state level. seems to me like someone on the state level is trying do damage control.

Good for them! Why would this be a question? Large mobs? OWS? Something big is right around the corner...

Originally posted by ajkesh
First of all, this just reeks of fiction...something we might see on a movie screen.

Second of all, they refuse to kill people who happen to live on the same land mass that they live on? Whoopdedoo. I suppose this story is food for those who still suffer from the patriotic virus.

Perhaps if they'd refuse to kill people who happen to live on non-USA land masses, then we'd have something to be excited about.

You are missing the point entirely. Hello? Martial law? Detainment of American Citizens, the whole FEMA crap theory? Also, not to mention all of the "Occupy's". Seriously man, stop downplaying this.

reply to post by gunshooter


Blue camo is a form of urban-camo to blend in with sky-reflecting windows and concrete and such.

Its funny, as I read this thread, the song "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield came on the radio. Perfect.

For those who do not know the song.
Here are the words.

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

The vast majority of military personnel will NOT fire on U.S. citizens. You people really need to quit worrying about U.S. military personnel doing this. It will be Obama's buddies at the U.N. that will start the killing of Americans. The majority of military, military veterans, and law enforcement will NOT let that happen without a fight. We are well armed, and we won't let the blue helmets walk around without fearing for their own lives. Guerrilla tactics in the U.S. will be very bloody for any invading forces.

God bless you for saying so sir. I tend to agree with you on the US troops AND the UN troops. I do know for a fact that there are German troops stationed in Millington TN Naval base outside of Memphis. This base was "closed" during the Clinton Admin and yet it was still staffed. I know because I made semi-regular deliveries there for several trucking companies. After 911 the "closed" base, which you used to be able drive right through, was suddenly manned at the guard shacks and driving through was no longer allowed, unless of course you were making a delivery.

A friend of mine has served drinks to these Germans in their black riot gear uniforms many time at one of the posh downtown hotels. Some will say that we have foreign troops training here all the time, and that is a nice story and I really do hope it has a happy ending, but I doubt that very much. But the real question is do German troops training in the US really have money for waaaaay overpriced drinks at these types of establishments? Is drinking at a hotel where the rooms run from $250 to $500 a night depending on what is going on that day really part of the training they are here for? I mean drinking is not something new in Germany, I think they have a handle on how to do that already.

At any rate, OP this is good to here. I had a Marine Corps DI for a father who became an Illinois State Trooper afterwards and I know that he would have been an Oath Keeper in an instant. If I qualified I would be one as well. Oath Keepers has had a pretty good impact with County Sheriffs in the western part of this country as well.

Although I hope it doesn't come to that, I remember we couldn't beat the Viet Namese by killing and demoralizing the populace, I just hope we will be able to do the same if we ever become surgically removed from our recliners, T.V.s, and booze.

Never ever, ever, ever give up ~ Winston Churchill

We were asked this on a psych evale on our prossesing back from down range. I didn't think to much of it but it did seem somewhat disturbing.

reply to post by Vitchilo


The source (Oath keepers) of this report calls it unconfirmed.

I don't think it ever will be confirmed. Why? The story reads like a chain letter.

What was the "unit in this area"?

Who was the company commander?

Who was the battalion commander?

Who is the governor that can have both of them fired?

Without the above questions being answered, I call this story bogus!

reply to post by CaptChaos


oathkeepers is legit, the head guy was on alex jones the other day and i could tell the message was sincere. he was even saying that it might come down to a gun battle.

also, military and police have been calling in alex jones all week, and are very supportive of the PEOPLE of this country. however, there are groups in police and military who are brainwashed, from what I've gained roughly 30-40% of cops are awake, and good people, and between 40-50% of military. that leaves a whole lot left to do the shooting. but more will wake up, there will still be those who blindly follow orders but more will wake up in time. and my numbers come from cops and military who alex asked "about how many cops/military that you know of would shoot americans if asked?"

Originally posted by ANNED
Don't get this wrong, But the national guard and any Oath Keepers WILL fire on Looters and Rioters that are destroying private property.
Or endangering the public.
Those are lawful orders.

[...]

Yet large scale looting goes on at the top with no reprisal.

Only some classes of citizen are "lawfully" shot on sight when stealing?

The upper crust dingleberries get to steal billions and not be shot?

But the dude stealing a TV, gets put down dead?

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
The vast majority of military personnel will NOT fire on U.S. citizens. You people really need to quit worrying about U.S. military personnel doing this. It will be Obama's buddies at the U.N. that will start the killing of Americans. The majority of military, military veterans, and law enforcement will NOT let that happen without a fight. We are well armed, and we won't let the blue helmets walk around without fearing for their own lives. Guerrilla tactics in the U.S. will be very bloody for any invading forces.

(Apologies if I'm repeating someone else's post)

Has navy_vet_stg3 not heard of Ruby Ridge, Waco, Kent State, or the recent bustups of the OWS camps. Please don't try to tell us that most of these were police actions because too many of the police are just recycled military.

Our military are quite willing to mow down civilians in any other country in the world so what makes American civilians different? What was different about the soldiers at Tiananman Square, Egypt, Syria, Libya etc that they were willing to kill their fellow citizens by the score?

I suggest that the military will do what they always do - follow orders to protect their own lives and livelihood but more likely because they get brainwashed into believing that they're fighting a real enemy.

Originally posted by PrimalRed

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

So he answered the poll question and then "refused to take the poll". Sounds like he took the poll and then refused to take a bunch of orders after that.

Nope. He refused to take the poll altogether when the content of it was revealed. And then everybody did the same thing since it was obvious the poll was trying to make the national guard violate their oath. Pretty simple.

Yeah, it kinda makes you a liability.

What about this guy ?
"Nope, i will not fire on that man. I took an oath i love freedumb"

lemme help you here: police officers shot the man, though in my personal opinion, a flashlight would've let them know if he was armed or not. he was stuck on a median. Should've jumped in and kicked his ass, after shining a light to make sure he was unarmed.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

What is terrifying is that there is a questionaire on this in the first place!!!!!!

[COLOR=CYAN]

Indeed, AND ITS NICE TO SEE THEM EXERCISING THEIR OWN FREE WILL (RESPECTS THAT) I wonder if they are marked for them backing off in some way and also was it an unexpected response not presented in the profile of the soldiers mind states. Unexpected by those who presented the psy ops within the paperwork??? while profiling the soldiers conscious* minds

(MATRIX GLITCH)[/COLOR]

I would like to believe this story but I don't. I am certain there would be some from the Nat Guard and regular military troops who refuse to take up arms against fellow Americans but the bulk of them will do what they are told. It somewhat depends on the circumstances too but in most cases, I believe they will do as they are told.

By the way. This question has been around a very long time. Two of my friends who enlisted in the Marines right out of high school in 1980 were asked this question in boot camp.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Rather than refuse to answer the questionaire in violation of an order he should have simply answered "NO!" and then did what he did.....how could answering a question be a violation? They are obviously fishing for the soldiers' response (as if this is planned for the future).
The response by the men (who followed) being admirable is also a functional of unit cohesion. If (and this will probably now be done with a "plant") the first man said (and this was not in the question) "Hell yes, if Americans are firing on me and my buddies you're damn right I will fire back! Booyah!" then the others would probably support that also.

Unconfirmed and it sounds false to me.

Don't know where these come from, the whole scenario just is illogical. Number one the military would not issue a questionaire about such a thing. Being a vet myself the notion just boggles my mind.

Read my comment a few posts up...

"This question has been around a very long time. Two of my friends who enlisted in the Marines right out of high school in 1980 were asked this question in boot camp."