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National guard unit refuses to answer questionaire about using lethal force on Americans Updated

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posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:29 PM
Don't get this wrong, But the national guard and any Oath Keepers WILL fire on Looters and Rioters that are destroying private property.
Or endangering the public.
Those are lawful orders.
We also will arrest or eliminate criminals praying on the public. Its up to the criminal.

This comes under common law.

Others would be unlawful.if unconstitutional.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:31 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Great post! I really can understand the part about all the enlisted men refusing to kill Americans. I have seen first hand how the officers could care less most of the time like in this story. I posted a similar first hand experience in this thread: here

I'll re-post it for people to read as it is very relevant based on the reaction of the officers in your story:

While I was in the USAF this conversation actually came up. It was at a Christmas party and a few of the "players" had some drinks and were "loosening" up so to say. All the enlisted men seemed to agree that attacking their own country men would never happen. The officers however seemed to not care either way and said orders are orders. (Public education via college no doubt...)

But what scared me the most was the response of the two black airmen and a few of the "Mexican" looking airmen. They came right out and said they would happily kill whoever stood against the military and their paychecks....... Now I am not racist, but I truly believe this was the point of affirmative action in the military, as well as making rank (military men know what I am talking about all too well!)

You see, AMERICANS would probably not kill their own fellow Americans.......but African-americans, and Mexican/Latino Americans would kill white Americans since they are not their own people...........think about it. (Ever wonder why there are so many different race designators in order to racially divide the UNITED States of America?)

Want proof? Walk down Oakland, Miami, the Bronx, Atlanta, or any other racially fueled domestic war zones at ANY time of day and you will get your proof.

Once again, I am not racist, and I have tons more examples. The noose is tightening on America.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:34 PM

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
The vast majority of military personnel will NOT fire on U.S. citizens. You people really need to quit worrying about U.S. military personnel doing this. It will be Obama's buddies at the U.N. that will start the killing of Americans. The majority of military, military veterans, and law enforcement will NOT let that happen without a fight. We are well armed, and we won't let the blue helmets walk around without fearing for their own lives. Guerrilla tactics in the U.S. will be very bloody for any invading forces.

Research civil war history for the answer. MOST refused, not just many. Having spent +20 in an armed force active duty immediately followed by another +20 as a contractor to the same armed force, I can promise you that illegal orders REQUIRE under the UCMJ that the issuing officer is placed under arrest by any ranked member. The facts will all be sorted out in the courts martial. It is not mutiny, it is following sworn orders in place to prevent a rogue commander from amassing power, which is probably the real mutiny.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:40 PM
I may be wrong , however this one line here tells me the Entire story is most likely a fabrication.

held in county jail by the Bn CMDR, awaiting a hearing under the UCMJ.

Im not very well versed in military procedure , but this seems very unlikely to me.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:40 PM
reply to post by tkwasny

That worked real good when they were waterboarding terrorist.
They all know what the Geneva Conventions said.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

The vast majority of military personnel will NOT fire on U.S. citizens. You people really need to quit worrying about U.S. military personnel doing this.

Well history would prove you wrong time and time again. The Military go against their people 99.9% of the time.

So I think we will play on the safe side and go with history. But thanks for your input.

I do hope history's probabilities will be proven wrong and that the military in large majority will side with the people and refuse the orders.
edit on 8-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

My brother was a combat medic in Operation Iraqi Freedom, he's out now but i asked him this exact same question when he got home and he already possed the question to his battle buddies and they all said the same thing, that if their commanders gave the order to kill the american people and on our own soil they would take those commanders out and make for washington and take out the CnC who gave the order. Ret General Wesley Clark and General Petreus would be the commanders of the rebel military.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:54 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

83% of all statistics are made up.

edit on 8-12-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:00 PM
Did anyone notice this update on the Oath Keepers page?

I just left both people involved with the incident that took place in the last few days. The soldiers do not want to pursue this matter any further, in any way shape or form. I was advised that the situation is being dealt with inhouse and there will be internal investigations into the conduct of certain ‘officers’ who started the poll and ordered certain persons held. The person allegedly being held was only there for a couple of hours. No punishment will be handed down to any of the soldiers involved. I cannot give any further information as to names dates reasons units or places. This is in respect to my friends here. If this upsets anyone I am sorry but this is the way the soldiers want it. You have my deepest apology and I truly wish I had never spoken about any of this with my friends here on or FB. I will be posting no more information of this type due to the repercussions which could come from this.

This is an interesting development.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:02 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Well.. he is in trouble for refusing the questionnaire. They could have answered "no" to all the questions. The guy is paying the price for disobeying orders. It's respectable kinda, but no more so than anyone else who wouldn't KILL other Americans. Actually I have more respect for myself for never being fool enough to put myself in a situation where I would be asked to.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:02 PM
If ignorance is bliss, we are all soaking in a hot tub of warm melted chocolate.

July 13-16 1863 New York City Draft Riots:

“The New York City draft riots (July 13 to July 16, 1863; known at the time as Draft Week[2]) were violent disturbances in New York City that were the culmination of discontent with new laws passed by Congress to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots were the largest civil insurrection in American history apart from the Civil War itself.[3] President Abraham Lincoln sent several regiments of militia and volunteer troops to control the city.”

“Order began to be restored on Thursday, after a peaceful rally of 5,000 at Old St. Patrick's Cathedral to hear Archbishop Hughes, and as New York State militia and some federal troops returned to New York, including the 152nd New York Volunteers, the 26th Michigan Volunteers, the 30th Indiana Volunteers and the 7th Regiment New York State Militia from Frederick, Maryland, after a forced march. In addition, the governor sent in the 74th and 65th regiments of the New York state militia, which had not been in federal service, and a section of the 20th Independent Battery, New York Volunteer Artillery from Fort Schuyler in Throgs Neck. The New York State militia units were the first to arrive. By July 16, there were several thousand Federal troops in the city.[6] A final confrontation occurred on Thursday evening near Gramercy Park. According to Adrian Cook's analysis in his Armies of the Streets, twelve people died on the last day of the riots in skirmishes between rioters and the police and the army, including one African-American, two soldiers, a bystander and two women.”

April 29, 1914
Ludlow mascare:

“The Ludlow Massacre was an attack by the Colorado National Guard on a tent colony of 1,200 striking coal miners and their families at Ludlow, Colorado on April 20, 1914. The massacre resulted in the violent deaths of between 19 and 25 people; sources vary but all sources include two women and eleven children, asphyxiated and burned to death under a single tent. The deaths occurred after a day-long fight between strikers and the Guard. ”

July 28, 1932

Bouns Army:
“The Bonus Army was the popular name of an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers—17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups—who gathered in Washington, D.C., in the spring and summer of 1932 to demand immediate cash-payment redemption of their service”

“The marchers remained at their campsite waiting for President Hoover to act. On July 28, 1932, Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the police to remove the Bonus Army veterans from their camp. When the veterans moved back into it, they rushed two policeman trapped on the second floor of a building. The cornered police drew their revolvers and shot two veterans, William Hushka and Eric Carlson, who died later.[9][10] “

mmmm campers, police, riots... think I saw this movie already.
“When told of the shootings, President Hoover ordered the army to evict the Bonus Army from Washington.”

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"
After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling the Bonus March was a Communist attempt to overthrow the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[10]
A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."[14]
Yep, I've seen this movie......

May 4th, 19 70 Kent state Shootings
The Kent State shootings—also known as the May 4 massacre or the Kent State massacre[2][3][4]—occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

“The shootings killed four students and wounded nine. Two of the four students killed, Allison Krause and Jeffrey Miller, had participated in the protest, and the other two, Sandra Scheuer and William Knox Schroeder, had been walking from one class to the next at the time of their deaths. Schroeder was also a member of the campus ROTC chapter. Of those wounded, none was closer than 71 feet to the guardsmen. Of those killed, the nearest (Miller) was 265 feet away, and their average distance from the guardsmen was 345 feet. “

So it's happened before and can happen again.
So when your ordered to fire on civilians the answer is very simple.
You just say “Sir I feel that is an unlawful order”
Commanders then scream, holler, yell and jump up and down and call you all kinds of names.
Probably even throw you in jail.
Might not hold up in court but holds up better than “I was just following orders”.
Remember the people in charge will always get away with it.
You, the snot nose private, will get all the blame though.

In this case they guy could have just taken the questionnaire and wrote:
“WTF?? Are you out of your Fracking mind???!!!”

edit on 8-12-2011 by mash3d because: Missplled New York, I want keep my knee caps

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:03 PM
reply to post by sheepslayer247

So it's a made up story..

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:05 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

In the meantime.
I think all Americans should go out in the streets and protest this bill that they`re trying to push through.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:06 PM
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

I don't know if it's made up, the person who posted the story must have gotten some flack for posting this story on FB and Oath Keepers.

By the way, the site has a nice video of a NG unit that refused to confiscate guns during Katrina.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:10 PM
reply to post by sheepslayer247

Eh.. I think it's a fake story. They person posted something that made people outraged, then it got out of hand when they wanted more info. Then he back peddled and said "oh don't worry, that guy was only in jail for a few hours, everything is coo
." Then the poster says he isn't posting any of the names, etc. I think it's most likely not true or over exaggerated.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:11 PM
remember when bush ordered torture?

and woo said it was OK to torture a suspected terrorist's children's testicles with pliers
( the terrorist a SUSPECT, the child an innocent civie or even CITIZEN)

and then threw the actuall torturers in jail

then said he would GLADDLY order torture again?

whats a terrorist again?
Veterans, little girly protestors, anti semites, semites, RAW MILK producers, Home schoolers, christians, Muslims, jews, talk show hosts/reporters, protestors ..........etc

They won't torture Jon Corzine of MF GLOBAL though or arrest him or shoot him

The japanese decendants In ww2 and Tesla were all citizens
they wil revoke your citizenship
the army or the cops or the mercs will then enjoy shooting you
edit on 8-12-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:11 PM
This story is unconfirmed. They don't say what unit it was or in what state. They don't give any details at all to pinpoint it.

Sounds like just another fictional story to try and rile the masses up into a frenzy.

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:14 PM
This is what makes me proud to be an American..when the men and women of our armed forces are awake and understand the oath they took to defend America and Americans NOT the banksters or the mafia politicians!

Together we are UNSTOPPABLE!!

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:14 PM
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

It's possible that this is just a made-up story. We will probably never know.

I would only suggest that we chalk this up to being a "feel-good" story that has some positive repercussions. If it spreads the word to other NG and military members and reminds them of their oaths......then it's fine by me!

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:24 PM
here is a masters thesis survey thatif accurate and true, pretty much says it all

April 24, 1995

One in Four Marines Would Fire
Results are in from the U.S. military "shoot Americans"
survey-and they are disquieting.
By Mike Blair

About one in four U.S. Marines would be willing to fire upon American citizens in a government gun confiscation program, according to the results of a survey undertaken nearly a year ago at a Marine Corps base in southern California.

In addition, more that four out of five of the Marines surveyed indicated they would be willing to "participate in missions under a U.S. National Emergency Police Force."

The SPOTLIGHT has been provided the results to the survey contained in a master's degree thesis, reportedly undertaken by a student at the Naval -More-Postgraduate School at Monterey, California, to determine "unit cohesion" when soldiers are assigned to "non-traditional missions."

posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:25 PM
reply to post by Myendica

It usually only takes one person with the courage to do the right thing to motivate the part in everyone else that says what they are doing isn't right.


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