PAX Americana: Why all the US bashing? Is it really Just Bush? (Not a Mud Pit Discussion Please)

Originally posted by intrepid
What about the French?

LOL Yep.. same with the French. It's really just a bit of cross-channel rotten tomato throwing and friendly p**s-taking! We sure would miss 'em if they weren't there or, god forbid, they stopped being so... French!

Well first some RANT.

FYI America is a continent not a country it extends from Alaska to the Patagonia in Chile and Argentina, so calling yourselves Americans or your country America is a BIG PISS OFF for all of us living in Latin America (read it twice LATIN AMERICA). Just ask anyone living south of the border and they will tell you that, that why you United stated of America (READ ..NOT AMERICANS) have so many nicknames south of the border like GRINGOS (I must say by the way that GRINGO is not a racist or despective word towars US citizens is just a patronimic invented for the lack of a way of calling your origin).

END RANT.

Now more information, basically the view of the US goverment was hatered in the past election where the US propaganda machine about FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY and MORAL of the government went to hell.
The big blunder of the US vote on the 2000 election and the resulting NO RESLUT for almost 3 weeks and then the resolution by LAwyers (the Supreme court-dont we all hate lawyers?) gave the world a very nice view of the cracks in the pseudo democracy and the corruption of the US goverment, so there was a big problem with credibility....
Then the 9/11 that left so many things unanswered and the patriot act (taht weirdly enough most of the world knew what was going to be taken away and the US citizens went with it like sheep).
The GWB declared the most stupid remark ever for a US prez "if you are not with us, you are against us" COME ON.......
Then the WMD in Irak and ALL the countries wanted more inspections but he went with it anyways alienating the rest of the UN and ruining the remaining good PR already he had.....
GWB is the fisrt US President that has to travel to other countries and has to be PROTECTED in non friendly countries and FRIENDLY TOO.....
If you think the us citizens and comediants make jokes about other nations, you should hear the jokes about GWB I have heard...oh man they are a ton.....

Just a quick one that comes into mind now:

-hey man !
What?
-Have you heard all the jokes on George Bush?
Those are not jokes ! they are annecdotes....!

People dont hate americans they just disagree with some of Bushs wacky ideas. Of course there will always be extreme views that come from the middle east & other places but they are the exception not the rule. For example just because an australian in the street dosnt agree with Bush it dosnt prevent the fact that there is a "bond" between americans & australians.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Strange, I have yet to see a single American who doesn't make fun of the French.

I have partaken myself. What I was trying to point out was that Im not really buying into the fact that alot of people say its just Bush. THere is much more to it than that.

Perhaps it's Americans' attitude towards others. Media coverage does little but glorify Americans while making the achievements of others seem trivial (or, worse yet, their shortcomings monumental). You ahve to understand the lens through which the US is perceived- the media, experiences with tourists, or experience with the military. The poisons are many.

De

Originally posted by DeusEx
Media coverage does little but glorify Americans while making the achievements of others seem trivial (or, worse yet, their shortcomings monumental).

And here is the real problem. It is the fact that, truth be told, the US IS the most powerful country, the richest country ect ect.

So, with all of this power, we are naturaly usually at the for front of most international issues. If there is a big problem that needs solving in some third world country, the UN usually wants the US to take on a majorty of the responsability.

It is not our fault that we in all actuality do the most for others in this world. It is simply a product of our being in a position to. Maybe instead of every country trying to compare themselves to the US, they should simply be content with their position, or if they are not try to improve it. The whole media glorification thing is simply a by product of the US actually doing good in the world. Think about it, we spend a lot of time effort and money trying to improve others way of life. This is not in anyway trivializing other countries contributions, it is simply a reflection of the proportion of burden placed on each country. I must say, I have yet to see any media coverage say anything but good things about any modernized country.

By the way - hows your story going? I came back to it after not reading it for a while and to my horor, you decided to get it published and not continue to post it...... Greedy bastard

I cannot speak for others so all I can do is give my personal take upon this so-called hate directed towards Bush/Americans.

For me any anti-American feeling is generated by what we would outwardly call American foreign policy and their perceived intentions upon the world stage. The word "hegemony" is frequently used perfectly describes where the US seems to be going. I do not want to live in a world where a single massive power exists with the ability to enforce it's will over the rest of the population for it's own interests.

However, I believe we must also take a different perspective upon current geopolitical events, and it is one that very few people seem to acknowledge. A lot of vehement rhetoric is directed towards Bush and his inner circle but I am not sure that this is aimed in the correct direction. Bush, as most politicians seem to be, could be considered a "front-man" of sorts, simply the man to whom the masses look for leadership, as Tony Blair is in the UK. There are many unseen faces who really pull the strings behind the scenes. It is these people, I believe, who are the real power players in the world today and who, if we were aware of their activities, would be the recipients of our disdain. I also believe that the majority of these truly powerful beings are not of a nationalistic bent: they are effectively supranational.

Anti-American/anti-Bush feeling serves the true power players well by keeping the masses' attention diverted from what should be the true focus of their discontent.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Maybe instead of every country trying to compare themselves to the US, they should simply be content with their position, or if they are not try to improve it.

Interesting perspective. I suspect it is this sort of comment that would infuriate many non-American people throughout the world.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Think about it, we spend a lot of time effort and money trying to improve others way of life.

I suspect that this argument could be countered by saying that any improvements provide are done so with certain conditions attached, i.e. awarding of contracts etc.. Also there are many documented cases of US intervention whereby the lives of many have been made much worse (See El Salvador, Nicaragua, Indonesia).

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It is not our fault that we in all actuality do the most for others in this world. It is simply a product of our being in a position to. Maybe instead of every country trying to compare themselves to the US, they should simply be content with their position, or if they are not try to improve it. The whole media glorification thing is simply a by product of the US actually doing good in the world. Think about it, we spend a lot of time effort and money trying to improve others way of life. This is not in anyway trivializing other countries contributions, it is simply a reflection of the proportion of burden placed on each country. I must say, I have yet to see any media coverage say anything but good things about any modernized country.

By the way - hows your story going? I came back to it after not reading it for a while and to my horor, you decided to get it published and not continue to post it...... Greedy bastard

I simply can't take it any longer. You must be denied because your ignoance knows no bounds. The only time the US does anything is if "there's something in it for me." What humanitarian work took place in the Sudan? Rhwanda? Phillipians? Oh, but Iraq has oil, must save that nation. Get your eye off of your own media for a minute and see the world. BTW, I've backed down from your drivel before out of respect for the board, I'm not feeling that magnanamous tonight.

Thats the general responce Intrepid, but esp. from Europe, there seems to be an strong anti American bent period. I also felt it when Clinton was in office.

Rothschild Targets Putin and Bush-Cheney
www.savethemales.ca...

I know I know,,,,savethemales.ca,,,credibility issues with Makow,,yadda yadda.

Just offering a possibility that something is going on at even higher levels than Bush, Putin etc. Like many others have said,,,"A possible turf war of the Elite perhaps" ?

Originally posted by project_pisces


Just offering a possibility that something is going on at even higher levels than Bush, Putin etc. Like many others have said,,,"A possible turf war of the Elite perhaps" ?

I'm not getting it PP, did Mohammed pee in Budha's Corn Flakes? I'm really not getting what you're saying. Just looking at what you've posted tonight.

dont mind me, Im one of the digits in there. Must be early onset schizophrenia 000101000100101000010010011000001

Originally posted by project_pisces
dont mind me, Im one of the digits in there. Must be early onset schizophrenia 000101000100101000010010011000001

Does that appease the gods?

As a Swede, I can only agree with what have been said by quite a few people already; most people absolutly don't hate the U.S. and its citizens, though they very much dislike the manner in which the current Administration is running things. This dislike is unequalled by that of previous U.S. presidencies during my lifetime (I'm 32), which is an opinion shared by most of the people I know. From the outside looking in, IMO the idea of how a lot of people in the rest of world hate your nation (and not just Bush), is certainly a notion the Bush Administration would like you to subscribe to .

[edit on 8-9-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It is not our fault that we in all actuality do the most for others in this world. It is simply a product of our being in a position to. Maybe instead of every country trying to compare themselves to the US, they should simply be content with their position, or if they are not try to improve it.

[sarcasm]
Yes its not Americas fault its powerful and mighty. We are soo lucky to have a country like this in the world, so caring to others and always there to help. Why cant all nations be like America.
[/sarcasm]

It is not our fault that we in all actuality do the most for others in this world

Oh please what has America done to help Sudan then eh? You want to know why there is alot of anti-american feeling in the world? its not cause we are all "jealous" its the fact America only thinks about themselves when it comes to an international problem. Also, countries that do not agree with American ways are label the "enemy" and this is why nobody likes your country .

Now, lets talk about the Iraq war, good points: bye bye Saddam, you get a cookie for that. Somehow your troops were unable to tell the difference between Iraqi forces and coalition troops, thats not a good sign. "Oh look, its a plane with the Union Jack on it!! its the Iraqis!!"....and your army is the best in the world

But seriously what has America done for every country in the world?? ill tell you, you've given the world Ronald Mcdonald, Bill Gates and a dangerous place to live in.

Alot of the posters have directed thier anger in particular at President Bush. Several have said "We hate Bush, we don't hate America". However, I think that there is more to the feeling of the posters than meets the eye. indeed, my brother in law who is a French citizen takes every oppurtunity to vent his feelings of the US. About the only positive thing he can say is that we have a great National Park system. An evening with him is like being in a mud pit thread and I cannot log off.

You are true to say that it is the USA system of values that is being attacked. It is for a very simple reason: it is because the United States Of America creates harm around the world in two dinstinctive ways:

1) your foreign policy's main purpose is to ruthlessly exploit all other countries for your own benefit.

2) the american culture invades and brings unhappiness in people's lives.

Originally posted by masterp
You are true to say that it is the USA system of values that is being attacked. It is for a very simple reason: it is because the United States Of America creates harm around the world in two dinstinctive ways:

1) your foreign policy's main purpose is to ruthlessly exploit all other countries for your own benefit.

2) the american culture invades and brings unhappiness in people's lives.

What country does not look out for its best interests? Are you suggesting say the EU does not do the same for its?

American culture? Hmmm that one does bear some thought. Having extensivly traveled all over the globe, I do know that Americana is just about everywhere. Levis, Music, Coke all are well know. Can you give me some examples at how people are unhappy?

Originally posted by FredT
What country does not look out for its best interests? Are you suggesting say the EU does not do the same for its?

Im not really sure,
I dont know to be honest, i think the EU does..now and again but dont take my word for it.

PAX and americana in one scentence... LOL! Got to remember that one.


No its not just bush but the whole package deal: The self proclaimed role of "international policaman" (read international highwayman) the way inwhich it acts unilateraly without consent of the UN and the way in wich it regularly sneers at the UN in contempt. Example: Reagan declaring "law day" the day after the US tells the World court where to go over its Nicaragua ruling, oh and the US also reponds by stepping up the terror campaign in the country just for good measure. They obviously really care!
Its just little things like that get us going...

I feel the Europeans, and Canadians, have, for the most part, a very socialist and liberal view of the world, and what they dislike most about the United States is the Right Wing Conservative values which exist, and in particular, are exhibited by the Republican Party. This is why Bush is so hated. It is not "Bush" per se, as I believe any staunchly conservative Republican President would similarly be disliked by the Euro's, Canadians, etc. There is a great conservative base in the United States, people who believe in God, Christian people who are not fanatical, but whose beliefs are derived from the same God as those who established this great Nation. Defense through strength of military, the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman, the right to keep and bear arms. People who do not feel homosexuality is acceptable, who do not agree with abortion, who think the U.S. government should be more laizze-faire. I think it is this political chasm which leads many liberal thinking people to dislike "Bush" per se.

And another note, notice I did not use the term "Americans" in the above paragraph. You see, I am a United States Citizen first, and an American second. Brazilians are Americans, Costa Ricans are Americans, Canadians are Americans, this entire hemisphere is "the Americas".