PAX Americana: Why all the US bashing? Is it really Just Bush? (Not a Mud Pit Discussion Please)

Having been on this board several months and have noticed alot of bashing of America, our values, our system etc. Some has been more than justified, some has not.

Alot of the posters have directed thier anger in particular at President Bush. Several have said "We hate Bush, we don't hate America". However, I think that there is more to the feeling of the posters than meets the eye. indeed, my brother in law who is a French citizen takes every oppurtunity to vent his feelings of the US. About the only positive thing he can say is that we have a great National Park system. An evening with him is like being in a mud pit thread and I cannot log off.

We have seen several threads predicting the end of America or certainly the diminishing of its Superpower status. Obviously I have a different take on the matter. America is more than just a country, it is a concept. People from all over the world have made thier homes here and consider themselves as Americans. There is alot of strength in this diversity. In that context, America is a tough nut to crack.

What I want to know is what exactly bugs you about the United States?

Is it the fact that we have been on top for so long?
Is it our international policies?
Is it really just Bush?

This is not intended to be mud pit discussion. I really want to see what the issues are on this topic.

Thank you

Originally posted by FredT
Is it the fact that we have been on top for so long?
Is it our international policies?
Is it really just Bush?

Yes, it's Bush. He doesn't care what Republicans think, he doesn't care what Americans think, he doesn't care what anyone thinks. If you people are smart you will show him that what he thinks doen't matter. Vote him OUT. Just a friendly note from a friend next door.

Thats the general responce Intrepid, but esp. from Europe, there seems to be an strong anti American bent period. I also felt it when Clinton was in office.

Originally posted by FredT
Thats the general responce Intrepid, but esp. from Europe, there seems to be an strong anti American bent period. I also felt it when Clinton was in office.

Clinton had more problems at home than he did abroad, I had no problem with him. Except for one, did he actually have to sleep with Hillary?

Hillary? Once that we know of. Beyond that, BRRRRRRRRRRRRR what an ice box.

People are always going to hate the top dog. Even after Bush is gone and even if we had the best American president the world has ever seen some people would still hate the US.

If China becomes the most powerful nation on earth some day some people will hate China for the same reason.

I'm American and don't like Bush. Having said that, I do feel that, no matter what, as the only superpower, America has always been and always will be unfairly vilified, no matter what. We deserve a lot of criticism, of course! But a lot of it is unfounded.

It is interesting, though. I've spoken to many people out here who are originally from Europe or Asia and say that no, most people from their homelands do *not* hate America and actually try to emmulate it very much...so I wonder how much America is really "hated"...?

Originally posted by TheLotusLady
I've spoken to many people out here who are originally from Europe or Asia and say that no, most people from their homelands do *not* hate America and actually try to emmulate it very much...so I wonder how much America is really "hated"...?

Im baing this on discussions I have had with my brother in law, and alot of the posts on the board. An Shadow, you are right, the Top Dog, does play into this on several levels.

Originally posted by FredT
An Shadow, you are right, the Top Dog, does play into this on several levels.

Maybe, ask someone from Poland over 40 about the USSR. If it's the same, you may be right.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by TheLotusLady
I've spoken to many people out here who are originally from Europe or Asia and say that no, most people from their homelands do *not* hate America and actually try to emmulate it very much...so I wonder how much America is really "hated"...?

Im baing this on discussions I have had with my brother in law, and alot of the posts on the board. An Shadow, you are right, the Top Dog, does play into this on several levels.

Oh yeah, I agree, but I do find it interesting that when I've brought it up to people here that they've denied this being the case. I don't know, just an observation!

I remember going to school and hearing a *lot* of America bashing by the foreign students there. Like I said, I think we deserve to be criticized in some areas, but sometimes I just have to roll my eyes and sigh...

Just a quick word FredT,
Can you explain what this has to do with the New World Order??

Originally posted by FredT
indeed, my brother in law who is a French citizen takes every oppurtunity to vent his feelings of the US. About the only positive thing he can say is that we have a great National Park system.

Strange, I have yet to see a single American who doesn't make fun of the French.

Or Canadians.

Or someone else, doesn't matter. Anti-American sentiment comes as much from the politics as from the attitude with which the politics are conducted. I turn on CNN, and I see an awful lot of potshots at Canada and Europe. Not very endearing, is it?

DE

Positive views of America have gone down in the last two years but generally, Europeans still like Americans.


In fact, the percentage of Europeans who view America positively is higher than the percentage of Americans who view Europeans positively.



Images are taken from a PEW Research poll released in March of 2004.
PEw Research Poll (600KB PDF)

For those who dislike the US, I think it has to do with foreign intervention and war, an attitude among some that the foreigners should butt out of the US while oblivious to the fact that the US government butts into other governments quite often.
The France bashing, Germany bashing, Spain bashing, muslim bashing, etc.... also don't win many freinds.

[edit on 7-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

i'm feeling rich today so here is my 2 cents.
i wonder if it is truely just this administration or bush that is the problem? the stage for what has been happening was laid along time b4 the current admin. AMERICA is getting to big for its britches, so to speak. is it really a wonder why countries don't like us??? AMERICA does what it wants when it wants regardless of what other countries want and AMERICA lends support to a country for a while but has no problem stabbing them in the back or just to stop supprting them when we feel like it.

i think it is more precise to say that what people hate about AMERICA is: Textthe current interpetation of the America political system by those that call themselves politicians.

the true American political system has been bastardized over the years by corrupt politicians and big business wants...that is the downfall of capitalizim...the only god is the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR. the only reason to do any thing is in the name of the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR.
AMERICA has put decided to put itself in the postion of world cop, world court....to influence through $$ and might, all others that AMERICA does not agree with.....that is why alot of the world hates AMERICA.............

If you look at the graphic I posted above on Americans Judge the Allies, you can see that views of seemingly all countries outside of the US have gone down.

You can explain the drop in opinion of France from 79% in 2002 down to only 33% in 2004 by saying France didn't go to war in Iraq.

Opinions of Great Britain however have also gone down and they're fighting with you so how do you explain that?

I was talking to a friend of mine today and I thought he had a good point:

If North Korea already has nuclear weapons and Iran is close to developing them, why did we decide to go after Iraq? Oil, pure and simple. And I've given a lot of thought to if the oil is justified for our infrastructure...it isn't. It's about money.

But my main reason is that Bush wants to increase the size and scope of the federal government, which will just create more problems in my mind. As Thomas Jefferson and Badnarik repeated, "The best government is the least amount of government." Or something to that effect...

I mean what's the difference between Kerry and Bush in this respect....nothing at all! In fact, Bush handed us (through his National Declarations or whatever they are called) the largest increase in FEDERAL government since WW2! This statement was made before the creation of the Intelligence Czar position. And Bush has the nerve to claim he is a republican! He isn't, at least not in the traditional sense, he and his administration are truly neo-cons, the result of which may become fascism (MAY MAY).

Either way, all these directives should have been more local rather than federal, that is...if anything!

Vote Libertarian.

[edit on 7-9-2004 by Jamuhn]

I have to agree... it's all about the money.

It seems to me (from the inside) that 1/3 of Americans are politicians (or like to fancy themselves as politicians), 1/3 are political supporters, and both those 2/3 are capitalists... LET THE MONEY ROLL IN!!!

And then there's the 1/3 of us who can't get a word in edgewise... if we open our mouths, we get shut up REALLY fast. I have been called so many names because of my views, including (and not limited to) outright crazy. I have had people try to tell me I need to see a psychiatrist (why?!? So I can give them all my hard-earned cash for drugs to mess me up any more?)

Americans don't just exploit other countries, Americans exploit their own countrymen! Seems like anyone will do just about anything for a buck anymore, and it's about to that point that if you don't you are living on the street. It's all a giant kiddie 'cops-and-robbers' game, with a hint of C.S.I. (I really hate that show...)

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by FredT
An Shadow, you are right, the Top Dog, does play into this on several levels.

Maybe, ask someone from Poland over 40 about the USSR. If it's the same, you may be right.

This really does have alot to do with it. America lost it's defining "purpose" in much of the world's eyes with the utter collapse of the Communist "threat." I mean just look how quickly our Fundamentalist Middle Eastern allies turned on us when we defeated the "athiest menace."

Assuming of course it wasn't us turning on them. PNAC, the right, whatever co-conspirators you like knew America had lost it's purpose with the wholly unexpected fall of the Soviet Union, and after spinning Reagen as the hero set about inventing America's new purpose... increasing freedom???

Some may buy that line here, but it's obvious BS to alot of people outside the US not spoon fed CNN/FOX party line dogma.

So the reason "they" hate us? In a word, perspective. Nationalism does not lend itself to critical thinking.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Opinions of Great Britain however have also gone down and they're fighting with you so how do you explain that?

That's an interesting statistic... and quite revealing.

Support for the US would be expected to have fallen, given the majority who were against the policy of war in Iraq. This feeling is pretty much directed at Bush, since it's him and his administration who are seen to be responsible for the policy.

The question is, how come the support only fell a few percentage points, if the majority were against the war, or at least against a war under those circumstances. (no UN mandate, undisclosed evidence of WMD, could have tried more diplomatic or other methods etc).

The answer is that in Britain at least, we like America! We may get angry at your government, and frustrated at Americans who support those US government policies we object to, but overall the fundamental feeling of understanding, friendship and common aspirations remains.

So, to my eyes at least, the problem is primarily Bush and the War on Terror. Don't ever take British criticism on a person level though... If we feel comfortable enough to insult you openly, it means we think you're basically ok... it's kind of a British trait!


[edit on 7/9/04 by muppet]

Originally posted by muppet
If we feel comfortable enough to insult you openly, it means we think you're basically ok... it's kind of a British trait!


[edit on 7/9/04 by muppet]

What about the French?