The Perfect World Problem

Imagine the existence of a Perfect World. Every creature living in peace, harmony and prosperity with each other. No feuds, war, famine, diseases, crime or injustice of any kind. No greed or competition. No reason for jealousy. No secrets. Continual and perpetual feelings of wonder, excitement, serenity and enlightenment. Unlimited knowledge about life with unlimited potential to achieve happiness. True Peace.

Is the existence of an imperfect world evidence that God does not really exist? Think about it carefully: if God did create this world and all life itself, what was the point in making the world imperfect? Why are there bacteria that threaten the existence of other bacteria? Why are there insects that threaten the existence of other insects? Why are there animals that threaten the existence of other animals? Why are there dangers that threaten the existence of human lives?

If a being is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and everything in between, then what motivates this being to create an imperfect world?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


If God exists, then the world is perfect and it is US who are not seeing it through the correct perspective...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

If God exists, then the world is perfect and it is US who are not seeing it through the correct perspective...

Try telling that to some kid living in Somalia.What is the correct perspective for them?

reply to post by theovermensch


The perspective which says that the world is perfect...

Perhaps our species will cease to evolve in a perfect world.

I cannot see that any evolution can take place in a world where everybody wears pastel tones, sings Om all day, is absolutely peaceful and content and there is no strife or challenges of any kind taking place.

After a thousand years of this type of "peaceful living", society will most likely be bored to tears, and would start contriving some type of argument just of the sake of "getting some action going".

We were born from the symbiotic interactions of many creatures - great and small. Many of these symbiotic exchanges brought about death and destruction - but in a good way. Perhaps that is the key to accelerated growth.

But hey - we are all God anyways, aren't we? Possibly we are all God placed here to experience suffering for the pure potential of accelerated experience which = growth. In our isolated minds we experience our suffering as exactly that - suffering. But were we to be plugged into a greater cosmic consciousness - perhaps we would understand that suffering is actually just part of the great process...

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Humans are the only thing on earth that interrupt the status quo. Without us, everything would be "perfect", because nature is perfect and perfectly balanced.

We, however, are quite imperfect. And so, there cannot be a "Perfect World" because a large majority of humans are driven by hunger, greed, bloodthirst, and/or selfishness. Until that is fixed, we're SOL.

Each man sees what he carries in his heart.

We see the World, not as it is, but exactly as we are. The whole world is our mirror, to the many renounced and rejected aspects of ourselves.
Source

We are all God consciously creating our reality. So who then do we blame for the sorry state so many percieve the world to be in?

Originally posted by theovermensch

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

If God exists, then the world is perfect and it is US who are not seeing it through the correct perspective...

Try telling that to some kid living in Somalia.What is the correct perspective for them?

Let happiness be your barometer of perfection, not availability of material items or the lack thereof or even peace within a country. Happiness and material possesions (or even basic survival needs) do not go hand in hand.

Read the list of countries by suicide rate on wikipedia. This is probably the best indicator of which countries are the unhappiest in the world.

Not a single 3rd world country in the top 10. Africa doesn't make to the list until number 20. The top of the list is dominated by 2nd world countries who want to have more. The next largest chunk is 1st world countries who have it all but obviously that's not enough.

Having personally travelled to a number of the poorer nations in the world I can assure you that the kids that live in these countries are some of the happiest kids in the world.

Originally posted by ottobot
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

Humans are the only thing on earth that interrupt the status quo. Without us, everything would be "perfect", because nature is perfect and perfectly balanced.

We, however, are quite imperfect. And so, there cannot be a "Perfect World" because a large majority of humans are driven by hunger, greed, bloodthirst, and/or selfishness. Until that is fixed, we're SOL.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


"The World is a great mirror. It reflects back to you what you are. If you are loving, if you are friendly, if you are helpful, the World will prove loving and friendly and helpful to you. The World is what you are. (Thomas Dreier)"

Originally posted by ottobot
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

"The World is a great mirror. It reflects back to you what you are. If you are loving, if you are friendly, if you are helpful, the World will prove loving and friendly and helpful to you. The World is what you are. (Thomas Dreier)"

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

There's a difference between being loving and friendly and helpful and non-judgmental toward others, and being loving and friendly and helpful and non-judgmental toward ourself. And this is the first step. Until you love yourself, you can't truly love anyone else. If you have no faith in yourself, how can you possibly change the world around you?

Well, I see what you mean, in some respects. But, to me, that specific quote is about the attitude we have toward the world. I never specifically tried to "change the world". I just tried to show others how much I cared about them. This is my nature and has been as long as I can remember.

It is hard when you are a child, for you live at the whim of those around you. Even harder when you are a teenager for you are so unsure about everything. Ever wanted to go back to your teenage life and live it all over with the knowledge you have now. I sure have. But what is the difference, for are you not the same person then as you are today?

Heck no, I'd never want to relive those years! The same people would be there and the same problems would be there. If I went back with the knowledge I have now, I would probably murder a couple of people to end suffering for multiple other people. :-/ Best to look toward the future.

I am not the same person physically, mentally, or spiritually. I am the same essential being, yes, and look pretty much the same... but I have evolved and grown significantly. I would not recognize the me I am now when I was young.

The difference is the confidence you now have in yourself.

The world is your mirror, but not how you act toward others. But how you act and think about yourself.

Perhaps. I just don't see it that way, though. I look at the world objectively. I can see some good and some bad, and I choose to be more good than bad. I do not deny that the bad exists just because I don't want it to. There are very dark parts of me, just as there are very bright parts of me. So, I guess I understand what you mean.

I suppose it is all in your personal perspective.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Contrary to popular belief and the high caliber of opposition, the world is not imperfect.

We were created as perfect beings and as a perfect universe. Imperfection is man-made. God allows us to make our own choices as part of our perfection. If we made the right choices, we would dwell in the perfection he has made for us.

The imperfection perception is perpetuated by various government and economic systems. Capitalism perpetuates greed which creates imbalance which leads to our perceived separation from perfection.

In the story of the garden of eden, man was given the knowledge of good and evil and then instantly began to create his own creations (he wrapped himself in loincloth). That was the first instance that led to the perception of imperfection. That was the first imbalance. It created a visual separation of man from nature. Of course, this led to the first act of jealousy which resulted in a murder in the next chapter of the bible. It all started with a sense of separation. From there, the imbalance created jealousy which led to greed.

The problem with the world today is that we, who have created the concept of greed, are perpetuating our own imperfect world fueled by that greed.

The point is, the perception of imperfection is created and perpetuated by man.

AND dwelling in perfection IS worth it.

Perfect peace, harmony, unconditional love is equal to the elimination of dissatisfaction, conflict, and hatred.

By perfection's very nature, there is no room for dissatisfaction. So you would not get bored with it. You would be eternally grateful.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Is the existence of an imperfect world evidence that God does not really exist? Think about it carefully: if God did create this world and all life itself, what was the point in making the world imperfect? Why are there bacteria that threaten the existence of other bacteria? Why are there insects that threaten the existence of other insects? Why are there animals that threaten the existence of other animals? Why are there dangers that threaten the existence of human lives?

It is evidence that things are being continually created..that much seems true to say. Creation always involves a bit of friction in order to happen. An artist starts with a blank perfect canvas beautiful in its gleaming white. The second he/she picks up a brush and puts a mark on that canvas it is no longer "perfect." The gardener clears a little spot of earth to plant a tree. That spot had its own little eco-system going until the gardener started digging around but what the gardener is doing is making room for something new. The cook has to chop or grate perfect vegetables to make a dinner. Wherever you look at something being created something else has to be destroyed in a sense for it to take place.

We haven't seen the end result of all the creation of the things you asked about to answer that. We see some beauty coming out of things and in other places some destruction going on. But either way things are continually being created and both are needed.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Huh?

In a perfect world, and I'm sure there are many, I would imagine that they also live in perfect harmony with their creator, the Absolute, God of their own understanding, who's perfect will is the will to love.

They have no axes to grind in other words..

"..hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

My theory of why the universe is "unfair" to life:
Maybe because if it was perfect then nobody would question the fact that there is a God and there would be no freedom of choice. And existence of the universe without freedom of choice is in constant debt to a creator without any way to rationalize need for itself.
Our universe is a problematic one with flaws ,thus there is a choice between good and bad, faith or lack of it and one can rationalize that by overcoming those obstacles we can consider it paying at least part of the debt back.
Hope it makes sense.

My theory is that we are part of a physical universe at least for now. And because its physical it has these poles that we sometimes call "good and bad" "health and sickness" and so forth.

After this life the rules of the game may change. At least that is what is hoped for by all the religions and spiritual people. That will be more of an astral type world and no need for the breakdown of things that the physical world carries.

I saw a program on PBS the other day talking about quantum physics and how the world is always moving out towards disorder in greater and greater amounts the further you get from the beginning or big bang. I tend to say this more and more in life, "it is what it is."

reply to post by Dark Ghost



You might notice that these...

feuds, war, famine, diseases, crime or injustice of any kind. No greed or competition. No reason for jealousy. No secrets.

Are all man made issues...

We live in a perfect world my friend... the imperfections are caused by mans thoughts and actions...

u dont realize how freedom is perfect bc ur freedom is always for u a will so never true

freedom is always out right then what is objective is a lot more right, so freedom is alive, but what is free of free is continuously new realm absolutely while always then more real living result, what is present definitely is all what is true or right so there cant b limitation sense for any else means or from random repetitions

Perfection is imperfection . One with in the same so is it really a problem ? When your car was built it ran perfectly , then along the way you can say it broke down from imperfections , but did it achieve an end result from the way it was built . Yes it did and it achieved it perfectly . Something and nothing are one in the same also .

From so called birth to death and being born to die . It works perfectly the splitting of cells to the decay of those same cells as we achieve death . If there is intent on a motivating scale of introducing outside influences who is to say that it wasn't meant to be ? It happened action=reaction , start=finish , perfection = imperfection round and round we go , if it stops no one knows . Like LunaKat said , it is what it is .

When time itself stops , will it ever start again ?