Well, I have taken the last dreggs of my money out of the bank....I will have a little more to take out tomorrow......I can always pay it back in next week when DD's become due.
All I know is we have vetoed this 'plan', Hungary are currently abstaining cos they want more time......I am very suspicious of what will happen over the week end.
I would like to remind you good folks of these two things...and I am by no stretch of the imagination a 'financier' accountant, work in a bank or anything like that....I just listen to stuff.

1. two weeks ago (at the week end) it was revealed that the UK government had told all its European Embassies to prepare contingency plans to protect UK citizens in EU countries as they were expecting massive violent disruptions WHEN the Euro colapses. I told my friend I would give this 2 weeks and that the Embasies would have been told this at least a month previously.

2. Beginning of the following week Mervyn King told all British Banks to make sure that they had converted everything they could into HARD CASH. Why? Bank run that he was expecting.

Shortly after I found the above two I then find out about this summit. This week end is going to be no walk in the park, neither do I see it as a complete crash of the Euro....wait till next week for that once the dust settles and the people react. The Europeans are going to hate us for what they will perceive as us Brits letting the Euro down.
As for Cameron? His vetoing the vote is a deliberate move in my view to bring the Euro down so the City can be saved and have even more 'power'.

Neh, just watch for the 'small print' over the week end, and then see what happens next week.
The only thing that will change any of the above if something extra-ordinary happens in the next few hours....which I doubt.

Rainbows
Jane

The City of London: a cost / benefit analysis of the moral and economic cancer at the heart of our nation

Whilst not even having a positive impact on the UK economy, let alone society, the City of London places British people at the centre of an international network of tax havens which facilitates the harsh realities that the majority of people in this world have to live with everyday. Just as we banned slavery, we have another opportunity to change the world for the better right on our doorstep, we just have to take it.

The City of London is a political Island in the centre of our capitol which has managed to quietly maintain a state special exemption from the values upon which we have built British society for several centuries. The City is represented by a Member of Parliament voted in, not by constituents, but rather a coalition of corporate interests; each business that is registered there enjoys voting rights relative to the amount of employees they have, around half of these business are foreign owned. As well as a political organ, the City is also a private corporation which owns the land of the City of London and manages its own amenities; it even has its own police force. Unsurprisingly, the mayor of London has no authority in the City which is, instead, run by the Lord Mayor of the City of London, from the whom the queen must ask permission to enter the city of London.

With all the pomp and ceremony, it may appear as though this may be just part of our quirky English tradition which, like the Queen, in reality does not infringe upon our fundamental democratic rights. On the contrary, this unaccountable little “state within a state” exerts huge influence in this country and the world through its representative in parliament (Strangely, it’s the only borough to have one) and the millions that it contributes as donations to political parties. In fact, the Conservative party have quadrupled their financial dependence on donations from the City since Cameron came in. Also, as they manage their own affairs, and with the help of some effective anti-trust laws, obtaining evidence and information relating to a criminal investigation is almost impossible. Finally, although tax levels are the same for the City of London, it is well known that through political manoeuvring and imaginative accountancy, the City pays well below their required contribution in taxes. One such example is that of Goldman Sachs who were recently just “let off” £5 million missed tax contributions.

The City do not deny their special status, in fact, they claim that they deserve it due to their “special role” in British society as “the beating heart of the financial services industry which accounts for 10% of British GDP”. So basically, as with the whole banking sector, it seems to be a case of “better the devil you know”. However, many are now beginning to question the real worth of the City of London to the British economy; is renouncing our democratic values worth the financial gain we, as a nation, get from the city? Are we even better off economically because of the City?

The Financial services sector contributed £53.4bn in the last tax year and accounts for 2.4% of national income. However, this tax contribution is eclipsed by the £850billion outlay that UK tax payers have had to pay in order to bail out the banks and the billions we are paying to the IMF in order to stabilize economies such as Greece; victims of the unfettered capitalism practised in the City of London. Furthermore, it is estimated that the total damage to the economy from the banking crisis and its resultant repercussions has been between 11 and 13% of GDP; so overall, we are experiencing a net loss from the City of London. Aside from economics, the actual social value of the City of London is not reflected in its financial contribution; “On best estimates it contributes 3 per cent a year in value added compared to 12.5 per cent value added contributed from manufacturing.”

However, it must be kept in mind that 300,000 people are employed in the financial services sector in the City of London and this rises to over a million when we take the whole country into account. Many are afraid that regulation of the City would cause the big banks to up and leave, taking with them valuable jobs. However, as always, it is not as simple as this. The Tobin Tax, a tax on speculative financial transactions, is one way in which it is possible to ensure the banking sector make a fair contribution to society while also acting as a tool with which to control market volatility. This will only affect pure speculation whilst leaving the socially useful parts of the finance industry intact. For example, shares are already taxed (stamp duty) and pension and investment funds will not be affected because they buy and hold and hardly ever sell. So it’s not like bringing financial services into line will cause the whole sector to up and leave. Rather, it would be good riddance to a small wealthy group of financial speculators whose only value to this country can be justified by the widely disregarded theory of “trickle down” economics.

Finally, the City of London acts as a “coordinating hub” for a global network of tax havens in which the assets of the rich are stashed, allowing dictators and multi national corporations to continue robbing the poor of the world. Many of these tax havens are British dependencies and the fact that we have it in our power to dismantle this backbone of international organized crime yet do nothing is a shame on this nation. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”; did we worry about loss of jobs and wait for international consensus when we became the first western power to ban slavery?

For better or for worse, Britain has been changing the world for the last 300 years. These days however, we have become a nation of hand-wringers, worrying about our ever dwindling resources. The opportunity to change the world and improve the lives of billions of people sits right on our doorstep. Not taking it will doom as to live as the intermediaries between the capitalist slave masters and the hungry masses of the world.

We must finally wake up to the fact that unregulated capitalism is bad for us due to it’s fundamental tenant of a separation of economics and politics being a complete myth; the case of the City of London stands testament to this. Have your doubts? Check out this banker chatting on the BBC. Our politicians must normalize the City of London and take measures such as the Tobin Tax in order to regulate the financial services sector. As citizens, we must demand of them this as well as not recognize the legitimacy nor authority of the City of London as it stands. Remember, their power is based on nothing more than our obedience.

Originally posted by diamondsmith
I think France and Germany will destroy everything.When people are in panic they made mistakes!

So how do they destroy anything by coming up with a plan to actually save the Euro? What is the alternative? Kick all the other countries (spain, italy, greece etc.) OUT and say "screw you, no money for you anymore!"

The problems of the Eurozone NEEDED a solution..and France/Germany actually put one to the table!

If France/Germany would not have supported those countries, all those countries would have had collapsed LONG AGO already. It's those countries problems and debts which causes the Eurozone problems..NOT Merkels or Sarkosi's fault. Cheezus.

Could a transactions tax be good for capitalism?


An EU financial transactions tax would be both desirable and feasible, argues an influential economist, Avinash Persaud, who has worked for a fair number of leading banks in his time and is currently chairman of Elara Capital.

Slightly embarrassingly for HM Treasury, his argument is based on the long-term impact of the UK's Stamp Duty Reserve Tax, which levies 0.5% on transactions in UK shares.

Although the London Stock Exchange has long campaigned against this stamp duty, the levy has been around in its current form for 25 years - and for longer in other incarnations - and hasn't been associated with the mass departure of equity trading away from the UK.

In fact, the London Stock Exchange has been remarkably successful in persuading international companies to list their shares in London: it has probably been the most successful stock market in the world, in that respect.

What's more, stamp duty raises an invaluable £3bn a year for the exchequer. And the Office for Budget Responsibility expects the take from the tax to rise by a third over the next three years.

So tax avoidance does not appear to have undermined this very British transaction tax.

As for the proposed European tax, it would be at a rate of 0.1% on shares and bonds, a fifth of Britain's stamp duty levy, and at 0.01% on derivative transactions, so - in theory - would create less of an incentive to emigrate from London for avoidance purposes than stamp duty has done.

In Persaud's view, the relative success of stamp duty is in its design. It is levied on any London listed shares, regardless of the nationality of those trading the shares. The test for liability to stamp duty is not the residence of the trader or investor.

The important point, he says, is that a transfer of shares is not legally enforceable if the tax hasn't been paid and the deal "stamped". So even if investors and banks relocate to Singapore or Geneva, if they trade in UK shares they have to pay this duty - and the consequence is that foreign residents pay 40% of British stamp duty.

Persaud would therefore argue that a similar rule should apply to the EU's transactions tax: so long as the transactions were in shares, or bonds or derivatives relating to money raised by companies based in the European Union, then the tax should apply.

On this scenario, there would be no point in huge banks, investors and traders quitting London, because it would not allow them to escape the tax.

There would only be acute damage to the City of London from a new transactions tax if huge companies, such as BP, or Unilever, or Vodafone stopped issuing bonds and shares in Europe or ceased to hedge their financial transactions in Europe.

The prospects of enormous "real" companies relocating to avoid the transactions tax or doing all their financial business in other jurisdictions seems pretty remote.

That said, a transactions tax might reduce the volume of transactions - especially in derivatives - designed for purely speculative purposes by increasing their cost.

It is not clear that would be such a terrible thing, since there is some evidence those deals increase irrational exuberance and manic depression in markets, to the detriment of businesses trying to finance themselves, and are also devices for extracting excessive fees from more gullible businesses (see my earlier post for more on this).

With its marginal increase in the cost of financial trading, a transaction tax would disproportionately hurt those trading in securities on the slimmest of profit margins.

As a result, there would be a reduction in so-called high-frequency trading, viz massive automatic trading in shares and bonds carried out by computers that run algorithms looking for price discrepancies or trends.

Would that be so disastrous?

Less high-frequency trading could mean that overshoots and undershoots in markets would become less extreme, in that the new hegemony of the machines in stock markets seems to have been associated with a sharp increase in the volatility of markets (the extreme case being Wall Street's notorious flash crash).

If that's so, then a financial transaction tax would actually increase the efficiency of the allocation of capital: it would improve the functioning of capitalism, rather than undermining it.

Remember what the Tories said about a minimum wage ........oohhh it would put thousands on the dole , it would be an absolute disaster for the economy THEY LIED . They do not wish to be accountable to Europe and in one sense who can blame them , they have had it good for 300 years plus , what we have to fear is what they have planned for the british people in the future.
You could put Cameron's family tree on big billboards up and down the UK, spelling out his lineage , people are sooooooo
asleep , not enough sheeple are waking up , apathy rules.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
The City of the London are the leeching scum who are bleeding the country dry. The SE is a worthless region that has never contributed anything to Britain.

On the contrary, the City of London has made sure that the rest of the UK has not tumbled into the abyss. As has been mentioned several times already, the City and the associated financial sector contribute billions to the UK Treasury and this wealth is redistributed out of the City, London and the South East towards to regions.

This is fact.

I'm neither from the SE , nor work there.

Regards

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
The City of the London are the leeching scum who are bleeding the country dry. The SE is a worthless region that has never contributed anything to Britain.

On the contrary, the City of London has made sure that the rest of the UK has not tumbled into the abyss. As has been mentioned several times already, the City and the associated financial sector contribute billions to the UK Treasury and this wealth is redistributed out of the City, London and the South East towards to regions.

This is fact.

I'm neither from the SE , nor work there.

Regards

Absolute nonsense. The City of London has DESTROYED the UK.

You seem to be confusing £ signs with contribution. It's easy to make money when you're selling the rest of the country down the river.

Wealth distribution my arse. Your statements run contrary to fact.

It doesn't matter where you're from. I never once stated people outside of the SE couldn't be brainwashed halfwits.

The City of London is the reason the rest of the UK is in the abyss. How silly and deluded can you possibly be?

Tell me, I want you to tell me what these City of London heroes actually do. Tell me what they do. What do they do? I'm disgusted by your absolute naivety

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
Tell me, I want you to tell me what these City of London heroes actually do. Tell me what they do. What do they do? I'm disgusted by your absolute naivety

Keep your hair on and try to remain civil.

The City of London and the finance services industry (as has been said by others) contributes vast sums in tax. Nothing naive about that. Perhaps you should say (in your own words and briefly) why this does not matter. Oh, they're not heros, it's an industry and employes many thousands the majority of whom are not excessively paid. I am not defending it, merely stating facts.

Regards

This is not about finances of any kind this is about the Subdication of Europe and its people to a Franco German plan which plans a "United States of Europe", one Economy, one political system, one Armed forces and eventually the total abolishment of Countries identities as independent entitiys, what the Germans and French have TRIED to achive through war in the past and failed is now being pursued and achived through political means and i hope it fails i really do because as an Englishman i dont dance to anybodys tune and havent done since 1066 and i be dammed if my laws which have been here since magna'carter is going to be replaced by some Eurocrate telling me how to live my life, well done Prime minister because this will only lead to another conflict in Europe eventually.

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop
The City of the London are the leeching scum who are bleeding the country dry. The SE is a worthless region that has never contributed anything to Britain.

On the contrary, the City of London has made sure that the rest of the UK has not tumbled into the abyss. As has been mentioned several times already, the City and the associated financial sector contribute billions to the UK Treasury and this wealth is redistributed out of the City, London and the South East towards to regions.

This is fact.

I'm neither from the SE , nor work there.

Regards

Absolute nonsense. The City of London has DESTROYED the UK.

You seem to be confusing £ signs with contribution. It's easy to make money when you're selling the rest of the country down the river.

Wealth distribution my arse. Your statements run contrary to fact.

It doesn't matter where you're from. I never once stated people outside of the SE couldn't be brainwashed halfwits.

The City of London is the reason the rest of the UK is in the abyss. How silly and deluded can you possibly be?

Tell me, I want you to tell me what these City of London heroes actually do. Tell me what they do. What do they do? I'm disgusted by your absolute naivety

Why don't you research it yourself you lazy sod!