EVERYONE Should Be Scared of This! EMP!

Or how about war becomes eminent and the U.S. strikes the first blow, and takes out all of China's stuff... Nah, nevermind, that doesn't make for good fear mongering so it isn't a possibility worth even looking at.

Wouldn't happen because we would launch ours at them almost simultaneously, unless they have a radar cloaking agent on their delivery warhead. But, this would surely send us back to the stone age.Scary!

I would say my name sums up how I feel about about this post.

I don't care it's a one-liner.

Arent nuclear reactors now fitted with Faraday cages to protect their generators from emp attack !
or something similar !

In my opinion, it's not happening because they're trying what they can to "domesticate" first. If we become sheeplish enough for them, the need for fearmongering goes away.

However, since there are protests and riots and revolts and coups and "terrorists", the first step is FEMA, second is police state, then world-wide civil war.

WWC1.

And, again in my opinion, step one will begin when someone tries to build a sovereign area on ... wait, there isn't anywhere someone could go for that but SPACE ANYMORE.

Thusly, if Occupy is hoaxy as has been said, it's the best place to push the limits. If the "hoax" Occupy wakes that sleeper cell (would be what they wanted to happen) why not test the theory and learn enough to EMULATE A SLEEPER CELL?

Or am I drastically wrong and one could use the fact that (considering that if Occupy were a "hoax") Occupy could become INSPIRED BY THE SLEEPER CELL? The 99% (in my opinion the referring to the "silent majority") surrounding and supporting the 1% via consumerism and rebellion could either become independant by supplying themselves with a combination of web-supported teach-ins and small-scale replications ....

Or simply swarm the 1% physically.

PLACE YOUR BETS! WHO FIRES FIRST? WHAT ARE THE ODDS AND BASED ON WHOSE FINDINGS?

Think you could escape if the globe's population redistributed evenly and looked for you?

Why would China attack the US? Apart from the fact that the US Government sticks it's nose into everyone else's business, it is always the first to respond with generous aid when crises strike anywhere on the planet. Additionally, the US community is a huge customer of the Chinese. If they wiped out the US, much of the assets would be either of no use or too dangerous to extract. The Chinese economy would take a downward hit.

You can bet your life that the US has strategies in place to stop anyone getting close enough to drop anything on the US.

The greatest threat to the US at present is Islamisation as it is in most Western, free and democratic societies. We are already at war with Islam ... it will only get worse in the future as the insidious disease spreads. China might be the only place left to go when Islam takes over and those of us who don't want to live under an Islamic totalitarian regime need somewhere to go.

Originally posted by Robinoz
Why would China attack the US? Apart from the fact that the US Government sticks it's nose into everyone else's business, it is always the first to respond with generous aid when crises strike anywhere on the planet. Additionally, the US community is a huge customer of the Chinese. If they wiped out the US, much of the assets would be either of no use or too dangerous to extract. The Chinese economy would take a downward hit.

You can bet your life that the US has strategies in place to stop anyone getting close enough to drop anything on the US.

The greatest threat to the US at present is Islamisation as it is in most Western, free and democratic societies. We are already at war with Islam ... it will only get worse in the future as the insidious disease spreads. China might be the only place left to go when Islam takes over and those of us who don't want to live under an Islamic totalitarian regime need somewhere to go.

I agree with everything you say exept the bit about the U.S being the first to respond with generous aid anyware on the planet. Most western countries get the ball rolling strait away when there's a humanitarian crisis.

In the book One Second After, the scenario is just this. Its a horrifying thought. Newt Gingrich even passed a copy of this book to all of congress!!!!!!!!!! The book did not however go into nuclear meltdown.

Funny I just found this thread yesterday. I was finally able to watch Trinity and Beyond movie about atomic bombs (pretty nice documentary).

OK back on topic. I remember in the video that we did atmospheric detonations. Which caused and EMP blast. I believe it what Teak and Orange shots. These were "only" 3.8 mega-ton bombs and they caused damage from Honolulu to New Zealand. However most of the damage was not permanent. I recall in the vid that the radio was down for about 8 hours and some components fried. Now these tests where done in the late 50's and early 60's. I would think at least the US military has planned ahead on most of its tech.

This does not mean we are safe stateside. But to allow our tech that is created here state side and allow that infrastructure to be damage hindering war efforts I do not see that happening. I believe that EMP threat is real, I am just not sure how real the effect is.

EMP generation The strong electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that results has several components. In the first few tens of nanoseconds, about a tenth of a percent of the weapon yield appears as powerful gamma rays with energies of one to three mega-electron volts (MeV, a unit of energy). The gamma rays rain down into the atmosphere and collide with air molecules, depositing their energy to produce huge quantities of positive ions and recoil electrons (also known as Compton electrons). The impacts create MeV-energy Compton electrons that then accelerate and spiral along the Earth's magnetic field lines. The resulting transient electric fields and currents that arise generate electromagnetic emissions in the radio frequency range of 15 to 250 megahertz (MHz, or one million cycles per second). This high-altitude EMP occurs between 30 and 50 kilometers (18 and 31 miles) above the Earth's surface. The potential as an anti-satellite weapon became apparent in August 1958 during Hardtack Teak. The EMP observed at the Apia Observatory at Samoa was four times more powerful than any created by solar storms, while in July 1962 the Starfish Prime test damaged electronics in Honolulu and New Zealand (approximately 1,300 kilometers away), fused 300 street lights on Oahu (Hawaii), set off about 100 burglar alarms, and caused the failure of a microwave repeating station on Kauai, which cut off the sturdy telephone system from the other Hawaiian islands [1]. The radius for an effective satellite kill for the various prompt radiations produced by such a nuclear weapon in space was determined to be roughly 80 km. Further testing to this end was carried out, and embodied in a Department of Defense program, Program 437.

Source

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by jed001

Originally posted by spy66
I agree with the OP. If China or Russia set of a EMP from space, not by a long range missile but by a orbital drifter. It would be very hard for the US to retaliate, For two reasons;

1. satellite receivers and other above ground communication receivers would shot down immediately. No communication. This will delay out going warnings. This will create a confusion and time will be spent on gathering intel about what happened.

2. The US would not know who attacked, because its external sensors shut down. The once above ground.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

so,..... you don't think that the US would not use some of its own space based weapons to destroy any kind of orbital drifter........

Sure they would, but they would have to spot it first and figure out if it is a weapon or not.

There Is a lot of junk drifting around in space. And a lot of junk satellites with radiation signatures, but they are not all seen as being weapons.

i am pretty sure that NORAD tracks anything larger than a baseball.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by jed001

 

There was quite a lot of American fear when China was able to shoot down one of its own satellites.

If the US shoots down a Chinese satellite, you can bet you back side that Chine will do the same and target American satellites.

the US would only shoot down something that should not be in our airspace or space space. If the chinese have the capability to shoot down their own satelite you can be sure that the US and Russia have had the same capability for years they are just smart enough not to anouce it to the world.

reply to post by jed001

i am pretty sure that NORAD tracks anything larger than a baseball.

What makes you so sure, do they give you updates or any other form for intelligence on the matter?

I want to know where all these people who think EMPs arent nuclear are getting their information from? Deny ignorance, people.

Originally posted by nightbringr
I want to know where all these people who think EMPs arent nuclear are getting their information from? Deny ignorance, people.

explosively pumped flux compression generator (EPFCG) en.wikipedia.org... ator


Man the link dosent work, but you now know what to look for.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by nightbringr
I want to know where all these people who think EMPs arent nuclear are getting their information from? Deny ignorance, people.

explosively pumped flux compression generator (EPFCG) en.wikipedia.org... ator

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Man the link dosent work, but you now know what to look for.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Yes. But do you think that is what the will be used? No. High yield nuclear warheads airburst at a high altitude. What you are refering to is not what would be used in this situation.

Originally posted by the4thhorseman
Funny I just found this thread yesterday. I was finally able to watch Trinity and Beyond movie about atomic bombs (pretty nice documentary).

OK back on topic. I remember in the video that we did atmospheric detonations. Which caused and EMP blast. I believe it what Teak and Orange shots. These were "only" 3.8 mega-ton bombs and they caused damage from Honolulu to New Zealand. However most of the damage was not permanent. I recall in the vid that the radio was down for about 8 hours and some components fried. Now these tests where done in the late 50's and early 60's. I would think at least the US military has planned ahead on most of its tech.

This does not mean we are safe stateside. But to allow our tech that is created here state side and allow that infrastructure to be damage hindering war efforts I do not see that happening. I believe that EMP threat is real, I am just not sure how real the effect is.

EMP generation The strong electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that results has several components. In the first few tens of nanoseconds, about a tenth of a percent of the weapon yield appears as powerful gamma rays with energies of one to three mega-electron volts (MeV, a unit of energy). The gamma rays rain down into the atmosphere and collide with air molecules, depositing their energy to produce huge quantities of positive ions and recoil electrons (also known as Compton electrons). The impacts create MeV-energy Compton electrons that then accelerate and spiral along the Earth's magnetic field lines. The resulting transient electric fields and currents that arise generate electromagnetic emissions in the radio frequency range of 15 to 250 megahertz (MHz, or one million cycles per second). This high-altitude EMP occurs between 30 and 50 kilometers (18 and 31 miles) above the Earth's surface. The potential as an anti-satellite weapon became apparent in August 1958 during Hardtack Teak. The EMP observed at the Apia Observatory at Samoa was four times more powerful than any created by solar storms, while in July 1962 the Starfish Prime test damaged electronics in Honolulu and New Zealand (approximately 1,300 kilometers away), fused 300 street lights on Oahu (Hawaii), set off about 100 burglar alarms, and caused the failure of a microwave repeating station on Kauai, which cut off the sturdy telephone system from the other Hawaiian islands [1]. The radius for an effective satellite kill for the various prompt radiations produced by such a nuclear weapon in space was determined to be roughly 80 km. Further testing to this end was carried out, and embodied in a Department of Defense program, Program 437.

Source

That test was to be a bomb. its goal was to blow up and not Emit an EMP. EMP bombs are atomic bomb but are tweaked to have a higher EMP yield as its primary objective.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by nightbringr
I want to know where all these people who think EMPs arent nuclear are getting their information from? Deny ignorance, people.

explosively pumped flux compression generator (EPFCG) en.wikipedia.org... ator

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Man the link dosent work, but you now know what to look for.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Yes. But do you think that is what the will be used? No. High yield nuclear warheads airburst at a high altitude. What you are refering to is not what would be used in this situation.

To be honest, i dont know. I dont know all that much about EM-weapons, i just know that these weapons exist in many different variations for different use, conventional or tactical.

They would not use a tactical EM-weapon at high altatude for effect.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

That test was to be a bomb. its goal was to blow up and not Emit an EMP. EMP bombs are atomic bomb but are tweaked to have a higher EMP yield as its primary objective.

That is what I am saying. After these air burst tests. It was soon realized the unexpected outcome...an EMP. Most of the time when something new is discovered it is always by accident.

The potential as an anti-satellite weapon became apparent in August 1958 during Hardtack Teak. The EMP observed at the Apia Observatory at Samoa was four times more powerful than any created by solar storms,

This EMP or side effect was well noted I am sure; and I am sure at least the US military has put into place systems that will stand such a blast.

With that "secret bunker" being built at the White House...kinda makes you wonder though...

Originally posted by Ghost375
No one should be scared of anything. What happens happens. Nothing you can do to stop it. There's either going to be an EMP or not...being afraid won't change anything.

The line said here: No one should be scared of anything. That is the point I think.

There is one major flaw in the OP's point, well two actually but the second plays off the first.

First, China would have to get past our Radar. An EMP that high in the atmosphere can only be done by an ICBM nuke. Which makes it completely visible to radar. They can't use a stealth bomber because their expensive and the bomber would not survive. A nuclear submarine is also out of the question because they're even more valuable and, judging from the OP's diagram, the ability of the sub to survive the attack would be entirely dependent on how far away it is, which also means It will not be close enough to America to prevent us from launching our nukes at them before the EMP goes off.
Since it would be obvious where the missiles came from, if they're ICBM's, America would simply wipe China off the map.

However, I do see a couple ways that China could get past this AND make the best of the opportunity afforded to them.
The first is launching the missile from American soil. If this was done in the midwest, where there is little population density and a short travel time for the missile, it could be done. The only problem is constructing one but if youre so hellbent on war, smuggling materials into the U.S. would likely include the pay off of the Mexican cartels. Without telling them what will happen to them of course.
Once they launch it, it wouldn't take 5 minutes for it to reach 300 miles. This would not only leave America blind, but confused as well. We wouldn't know where the missile came from or be able to see the next portion of the assault.
A submarine off the West coast rises from deep underwater and launches missiles targeting the usual targets, LA, NYC, Washington, etc. The sub would have roughly 20 minutes before the military got it's radars and satellite uplinks working again, this depends on how much of the military's hardware is protected from EMP's. This also depends on whether or not their radars caught the missile before it detonated and when they discover it was an EMP.
This would utterly cripple America's defenses and leave us open to invasion, which likely would occur a few hours or days later, first with paratroopers to get a foot hold quickly, likely along the west coast. Probably immediately following the nukes, next with the full scale invasion that would occur during the chaos incited by nukes and paratroopers, likely on the land secured by the troopers on the west coast. From there it is just like the Korean War where we are overtaken by sheer numbers.