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I've had it "the poor don't pay taxes" lies

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posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Every self-described conservative here sooner or later calls many of the poor freeloaders who don't pay taxes because they get a refund at the end of the year.

They equate a refund with not paying taxes.

Yet every single week, everyone who gets a paycheck pays taxes upon their income. In effect, even if they get a refund, they are giving the federal government an interest-free loan for a year.

Whenever they fill their tank with gas, they pay taxes.

Whenever they buy anything, they pay taxes.

They pay Social Security taxes that are scammed by the wealthy to fund their latest gambles. Every time the Social Security fund has built up over my lifetime in excess of current needs, the business community (the wealthy) wailed about it "just sitting there, doing nothing" and demanded it be put into their hands to invest. Had they left it alone in a simple interest-bearing account, we'd still be flush.

On the other hand, those who "invest" (that's gamble to the rest of us) only pay taxes on capital gains when the are realized, even though they are free to use the gains in real time as security for loans whose interest they get to write off.

They also get to write off many living expenses like the gas taxes and personal purchase taxes as "business expenses", that the poor can't.

On top of that, many pay their taxes on a quarterly or annual basis to avoid the free-loan aspect.

So stop already with the lies that X[/i ]number of Americans are freeloaders because "they don't pay taxes".

The worst freeloaders are all at the top.

And also the absolute worst whiners.
edit on 7-12-2011 by apacheman because: sp




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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My refund was only enough to buy me a pack of Newports... I don't see what they're bitching about.

But yeah, that kind of talk gets on my nerves too...





The worst freeloaders are all at the top. And also the absolute worst whiners.

So true. What hypocrites...

"They don't paaaay taaaaaxes! Waaaaaaaah"



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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When people say that 47% of the US population doesn't pay Federal Income tax, that is exactly what it means.

Sure they still pay sales tax.

But they don't pay Federal Income tax. That's it.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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I've had it with the government taxing everyone out their wazoo. the poor get it as everyone else. Cigarettes, gas. alcohol, to name a few. Time to put our government back in their rightful place.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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The claim is made about Federal income taxes, so in that sense you are correct because most everyone has to pay sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes (even through rent), etc. If the claim is "the poor don't pay taxes" then it is, indeed, a lie, but I think if you look more carefully at what people are saying, they don't say it quite like you are claiming. Here's the actual breakdown of Federal taxes from the IRS, corrected to 2010:

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes
The bottom 47% paid no federal income taxes at all.

Now let’s put that in perspective.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 5% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $159,619.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.

What galls me and what I'm sick & tired of is people claiming that I, being at about 5% and paying 58% of all the income taxes, am not paying my "fair share." What does "fair" even mean in this context? You want ALL of it? the fact is someone has to actually produce and earn it first before you can take it away. The fact is that if you take away the incentive to produce, no one does, then everyone gets to be equal, equally poor.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 


Of course they do, every single paycheck.

Just because they get some back at the end of the year, doesn't mean they don't pay in every week.

Why not just not take any taxes at all until an income level exceeds the threshold?

Only then you say they don't pay taxes.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


Fair in this context means being honest.

As I've pointed out, everyone who actually works for a living pays taxes every week.

Some is returned at the end of the year, but in the meantime, money desperately needed is gone.

You wouldn't notice it at your level, but those hard-working poor sure do.

And again, the worst freeloaders are at the top: taxpayers gave GE, who hasn't paid taxes in years, billions in refunds. Go look for your freeloaders there.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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Im sorry but its not a lie, 47% of americans dont pay federal income tax. If you would tax those americans that dont pay taxes 10% you would bring in half a trillion dollars in federal income.

Another fun fact. if you took all the "Rich" peoples Assets and liquidated it, it would only fund the government for 185 days.

If you liquidated ALL Americans assets, equaling 75 Trillion, and sold it to pay down the debt and all unfunded liabilities equaling 128 Trillion, you still will be in debt!

The spending needs to stop! you cant tax your way out of this!
edit on 7-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


The 47 % who do not pay Federal Income tax get the money that is taken out of their paychecks back.

Here is a link with a breakdown of who the 47% are. 47%


97% of these people earn less than $40,000 per year.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 

me and my husband earn below the mean income level, I looked it up.. over 50% of the american households earn more than us!! our kids are grown and we just take the standard deduction usually, and well..
we have always ended up owning money at the end of the year. which is why I now have them taking out an extra $20 a month...
there might be close to 50% not paying taxes, but it's not solely based on their income...
you might be more correct to say that parents are not paying taxes or something, I don't know...



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
The claim is made about Federal income taxes, so in that sense you are correct because most everyone has to pay sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes (even through rent), etc. If the claim is "the poor don't pay taxes" then it is, indeed, a lie, but I think if you look more carefully at what people are saying, they don't say it quite like you are claiming. Here's the actual breakdown of Federal taxes from the IRS, corrected to 2010:

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes
The bottom 47% paid no federal income taxes at all.

Now let’s put that in perspective.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 5% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $159,619.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.

What galls me and what I'm sick & tired of is people claiming that I, being at about 5% and paying 58% of all the income taxes, am not paying my "fair share." What does "fair" even mean in this context? You want ALL of it? the fact is someone has to actually produce and earn it first before you can take it away. The fact is that if you take away the incentive to produce, no one does, then everyone gets to be equal, equally poor.



Your statistics are very, very deceitful. How much "income" the top 1% has is much less than what they actually have, and income taxes are more harmful to the poor because their income is all they have. The wealthy make money on investments, not from regular jobs, like the middle class and lower class do. How much wealth in general does the the top 5% have? It's not about income as much as it's about how much wealth in concentrated in the upper hands?

Here:
www2.ucsc.edu... (bottom of the second table)
The top 20% have 93% of the wealth. According to your statistics, the top 25% only pay around 86% of the income taxes (I am imagining the top 20% is somewhere between 81 and 84%), but yet they have 93% of the total country's wealth. That doesn't seem like the fair share, now does it?


edit on 12/7/2011 by spacekc929 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 




Every self-described conservative here sooner or later calls many of the poor freeloaders who don't pay taxes because they get a refund at the end of the year.

They equate a refund with not paying taxes.


So at the end of the year they get all that money back? That kind of sounds like a break even situation.



Yet every single week, everyone who gets a paycheck pays taxes upon their income. In effect, even if they get a refund, they are giving the federal government an interest-free loan for a year.

And the people who sign the front of the checks pay taxes to pay those people and they do not get that back and at the same time "are the bad guys".



Whenever they fill their tank with gas, they pay taxes.

You ever fill up a hummer? Everyone pays those taxes, you ever pay the tax on a private jet?



On the other hand, those who "invest" (that's gamble to the rest of us) only pay taxes on capital gains when the are realized, even though they are free to use the gains in real time as security for loans whose interest they get to write off.

Yeah but they already paid tax on the money they are investing, it all gets taxed eventually. Nobody is stopping poor people from playing the stock market, they can do it too.



They also get to write off many living expenses like the gas taxes and personal purchase taxes as "business expenses", that the poor can't.

Well when you own a business you can have business expenses, it is as simple as that.



On top of that, many pay their taxes on a quarterly or annual basis to avoid the free-loan aspect.

That is because when you own a business it is not as simple as getting a check every week. You can make a million dollars in a month then you can lose 3 million dollars the next month. And some of those funds could have been spent on business expenses, the whole thing can get really complicated. It is not to avoid the "free loan" aspect chances are if you have to do the quarterly thing you are not getting that money back



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by spacekc929
Your statistics are very, very deceitful. How much "income" the top 1% has is much less than what they actually have, and income taxes are more harmful to the poor because their income is all they have. The wealthy make money on investments, not from regular jobs, like the middle class and lower class do. How much wealth in general does the the top 5% have? It's not about income as much as it's about how much wealth in concentrated in the upper hands?

Here:
www2.ucsc.edu... (bottom of the second table)
The top 20% have 93% of the wealth. According to your statistics, the top 25% only pay around 86% of the income taxes (I am imagining the top 20% is somewhere between 81 and 84%), but yet they have 93% of the total country's wealth. That doesn't seem like the fair share, now does it?


edit on 12/7/2011 by spacekc929 because: (no reason given)


You need to separate income from wealth. Apples and oranges. HOLDING wealth means nothing since taxes are based on annual INCOME. Once you are holding wealth, it's yours and no one has the rights to touch it. Once your wealth becomes mobile, it become income for someone and is therefore taxable.

The INCOME tax is our vehicle, the confiscation of wealth is not a law on any books except those written by communists, theives, monarchies, and that lot.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 


Took the words right out of my mouth. Someone who has gotten $1,000,000 last year paid the taxes on it this year when taxes were due. Next year they will not be taxed on that same million. Any money made off of interest is taxable though. What happens is that someone who has made millions then decides to stop making money can live off what has already been made and taxed. They won't have to pay anymore income tax so it can appear that millionaires aren't paying their fair share.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by spacekc929

The wealthy make money on investments,


Which is exactly why raising the tax rate on the rich is a ridiculous plan. Sure, jealous people will feel all gooey inside because, by gosh, those mean old rich people will be paying Their Fair Share!! Never mind the absolute fact that they won't be paying any more than they are now.

Oh, and OP, that 47% statistic is not just a number that a conservative radio host pulled out of his backside. That number is freely available from the IRS. My parents, for the last 10 years of their lives, didn't pay a dime to the IRS. They had nothing taken out, and they got nothing back. They made no taxable income. They had to file on April 15, but they never paid a dime. So your argument is specious, at best.

/TOA



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


So the ones not paying taxes according to you are the retired?
Time to get on that then huh?



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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What about corporations like Haliburton and CNN, Reuters (I think) and others that move their headquarters to DUBAI so they can get out of corporate income taxes completely? There is NONE at all , so how ever low we go we can't compete with that, can we?

And yet we still call them "American" companies and in the case of Halliburton they get HUGE billion dollar govt. contracts.


I'm not an expert but why are we pointing the finger at people that make below the poverty level or only enough to qualify them for a subsistance lifestyle when FILTHY rich corporations get out of it alltogether and then hoard money and DO NOT create jobs on top of THAT?



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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When only income tax is included the disparity isn't as evident as when you bring social security taxes into the picture. The amount of revenue generated by social security taxes is nearly as much as that collected on income taxes and the weight of that tax falls disproportionately on the shoulders of the lower wage earners as there is a wage limit that tax is assessed on ($110,100 this year).

Further, the tax rate assessed on dividends and other earnings is lower than that assessed on "earned" income.

To really BEGIN to address the inequality, the tax codes need to be changed. Those that earn more and/or hold more wealth have a lot of ways to shelter their income. Prime example is the mortgage deduction. For the poor guy paying rent, there is no deduction but for the landlord he's paying it to, there's a deduction for the interest, the property taxes, the upkeep... to the point for many landlords, the deductions allow them to reduce the taxes they pay on the other income they have.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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I've got an idea. Lets get rid of ALL taxes, get rid of ALL redistribution plans i.e. welfare, foodstamps, government housing, etc... Make everyone work for a living, and see who cries wolf! Those who cannot will fall to the Darwinist theories we are told in school. Survival of the fittest. That would be fair. People cry unfair when they get a speeding ticket. Fairness would be a speeding ticket EVERY time you exceed the limit, even if it be one m.p.h.
Fair is by far the wrong word to use.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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This is untrue. When I was in college I once received a $600 refund in a year where I paid less than $100 in taxes. I was astonished and disgusted, even though it was a windfall for me then.

I know of a CPA in my home town who makes his entire year's living from going to the bad part of town & doing taxes for welfare recipients. He does like H&R Block - they sign over the IRS refund to him, and he gives them cash on the spot. These are people with NO income, only welfare. They all get tax refunds. He finds this more profitable than working anywhere else as an ordinary CPA. I'm sure he is not unique.

Nearly 50% of Americans pay no income taxes (Forbes). How many of these are eligible for refunds on money they never paid in? KNOW YOUR FACTS. DENY IGNORANCE.

I'm sick of this garbage, too. I'm going to make a post, too, soon --> from the other side.
edit on 8-12-2011 by Schkeptick because: (no reason given)



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