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Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

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posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Every day is a new day and every document dump brings about new information. We have been discussing this scheme since this story first broke months ago. Here you go folks in THEIR own words.


Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.


Here it is "Demand Letter 3"


ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."


Law never passed by Congress seems okay to the ATF...

On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially by drug gangs."


Reaction.

On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us.

"In light of the evidence, the Justice Department's refusal to answer questions about the role Operation Fast and Furious was supposed to play in advancing new firearms regulations is simply unacceptable," Rep. Issa told CBS News.

www.cbsnews.com...

Unacceptable is an understatement!! Holder and others should be behind bars and our illustrious president should be impeached. What more is it going take to see heads start to roll here. I am just stunned.

edit on 7-12-2011 by jibeho because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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It took me awhile to post this report, you beat me to it bro!

This is disgusting and we knew it.

I'm past demanding these folks be held accountable. I'm for a complete dissolution of any and all federal law enforcement bureaucracies. ATF should be a convenience store in this country, not a menace to our freedom or liberty.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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If I may, I'd like to quote thisguyrighthere from my late thread, "Funny. The only case they've made after all the money, crimes and deaths is that the federal government is too irresponsible to posses firearms."

What a fantastic point.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Of course they would try to use this mess to try and enact more gun control laws. Other than making somebody money, I can see no other reason for F&F. Although this could no blow up in their faces. link Now the left needs to stop with this "republican witch hunt" BS and start looking at what the administration is doing!



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
Of course they would try to use this mess to try and enact more gun control laws. Other than making somebody money, I can see no other reason for F&F. Although this could no blow up in their faces. link Now the left needs to stop with this "republican witch hunt" BS and start looking at what the administration is doing!



Agreed! While the main media players seem to focus on the GOP flavor of the week, CBS surprisingly ran this story. Not sure if it will hit their evening news cast though.




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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They can have my guns, one bullet at a time.


Seriously, though. People see this as a "gun grab". But this isn't about guns. This is about how many of our rights they can attempt to wipe their asses with. The Bill of Rights, hell the whole Constitution, is just a hindrance to the Obama administration. Don't get me wrong, Bush was bad with the Patriot Act and all, but Obama has not only perpetuated Bush's policies, he's come up with new and exciting restrictions on our absolute rights.

/TOA



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by The Old American
They can have my guns, one bullet at a time.

...
Don't get me wrong, Bush was bad with the Patriot Act and all, but Obama has not only perpetuated Bush's policies, he's come up with new and exciting restrictions on our absolute rights./TOA


Funny thing, Bush didn't pass the Patriot Act, the House and Senate did, by overwhelming majorities. True, Obama has extended key provisions, but under a Democrat-led Congress.

Many may not remember since the MSM (except for CBS' Attkisson) completely ignored it, but the early reports on F&F and the gunrunning programs focused on the Obama/Holder anti-2nd amendment agenda and Holder's self-professed goals of limiting citizens' access to firearms, especially long arms.

Now, it turns out the alleged right-wing "hysterics" and "radicals" were on-point and the criticism of the administration prescient.

These thugs have proven to be the anti-Constitution demagogues some of us claimed in March and earlier.
jw
edit on 7-12-2011 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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IF we have a (at least metaphorically if not officially declared) "War on Drugs" and the "Drug Cartels" are the "Enemy" then would not a plan to put weapons in enemy hands be "Treason"....certainly at least "trading with the enemy", do you agree?



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 


Absolutley! And there needs to be a serious look at treason charges. This is the same crowd of corrupt politicians that were running around Chicago with Blagovich (got his today) and the rest of them. How did anyone expect the corruption wouldn't rise to astonishing new levels from these losers!



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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A conspiracy doubter begins to smell what the DoJ is cookin....HE RE.


Fast and Furious appears to be a bottomless pit of breathtaking stupidity and inexplicable incompetence. To use a program that the ATF knew was killing people to gain crass political advantage in a debate over gun control is just mind boggling - until you remember who is running the country. Read more: www.americanthinker.com...


Who has eyes to see? Who has ears to hear?
edit on 8-12-2011 by TreadUpon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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Nuff said..................




posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


Treason is the key word here.

Any elected official who holds public office paid for by the taxpayers, that is directly responsible for the murder of a uniformed individual by intentional policy that was attempted to be covered up should be charged with treason.

See Sedition



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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So, when does the 2nd Amendment apply if not in the case of a gov't by criminal enterprise that encompasses all political parties and is using national resources to propagandize disarmament - at literally any cost?

Does _anyone_ still believe that global disarmament would mean anything other than what the Georgia Guidestones prescribe, as in genocide against billions?? The time is approaching fast it seems, because the criminals will now likely come up with even more violence to cover their behinds before too many domesticated folk slowly start to wise up in the face of overwhelming evidence.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
Nuff said..................



Eric Holder has already admitted to lying to congress.

Step 2: ?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
Of course they would try to use this mess to try and enact more gun control laws. Other than making somebody money, I can see no other reason for F&F. Although this could no blow up in their faces. link Now the left needs to stop with this "republican witch hunt" BS and start looking at what the administration is doing!


That was the strategy BEFORE Fast & Furious happened.

Smear the gun dealers. Attack the 2nd amendment.

It all went wrong. Now Eric Holder and Obama have blood on their hands.

We may have to impeach Holder if he continues to stonewall the U.S. Congress.



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