a lot of these cops have chips on their shoulders and love to power trip for no reason. it doesn't surprise me one bit that these uneducated boneheads acted this way. most of these cops were probably from the infamous rampart division...

The US and its citizens are in a bad place right now, or so it seems. One of the main causes is a grey area where the right to peaceful assembly is concerned. Where , exactly, precisely, in law, does peaceful protest become something else? What is the cut off point?

And, what takes greater importance under your law, peaceful protest, or the continuation of an unacceptable status quo? Where is the point at which a person may say "come hell or high water, this cannot stand" without fear of abuse?

A protest is pointless if some loophole can be exploited by officials to see it ended. It is pointless if the police can have the power to end a protest of any nature, for any reason they care to name, including zoning laws which are significantly less important from a moral point of veiw, than the issue being protested about. It is pointless, if a group of people outside of it, can decide that people have had thier time on the soap box, and remove a group using ANY means, because that makes the whole thing moot.

Its like saying to a person, you can get on the tv, you can get in the press, but that will only last a certain time, and our system will outlast you, so your every effort is without any actual effect, but just so we can be seen to have allowed you your rights, we will leave you be, and then make out that you are breaking a whole bunch of laws, and are involved in , and will be treated as persons who are involved in criminal behavior, thus invalidating your point in the eyes of the stupid (who are in a majority, because they like a credit ecconomy, and dont care what dire circumstance may befall them tomorrow, if only today can be comforting and lovely).

They are using the police to ensure that any protest will be bought down before it can have a following that is capable of changing anything.

OH, and while Im on the subject of the police... To the fellow who claimed that the writer was a wussy... If you , in your training, have been left kneeling on concrete, with your wrists zipcuffed behind you, for seven hours at a stretch, THEN you may consider yourself qualified to utter your nonsense. Till then, you havent got a clue what you are talking about , and heres why. You knew what you were going through was a training excersize. You knew that you would only be in that position for a limited time, and that the people you were training with, would not allow you to have the blood supply to your extremities locked off for more than a few minuites at most. You also knew the names of those you trained with, and would have recourse in the event of serious long lasting damage, to a system which protects its workers.

The writer involved in this threads subject matter, was left for HOURS in a stress position (illegal) with the circulation to his extremities cut off to the point of his hands changing colour (illegal, not to mention extremely dangerous), after having been manhandled to the point of bleeding from the face, despite offering zero actual resistance (dissproportionate to say the least). On top of that , he was not being protected by law, and still isnt. He is being victimised by it, over what amounts to a legitimate political concern, expressed in the only way the law allowed, permission for which was removed, against the constitiution of your nation, and against the rights you all hold so dear. Tell me Sir, when the hell have you been in that postition?

Originally posted by Shuye
Sounds like Nazi Germany all over, America style.

FEMA camps and this brutality goes intertwined.

Oh puuu-liiice - if you would have protested against (lets say) the deportation of jews to ghettos, what would have happened to you? What do you guess?

Righto, you would have followed them into a ghetto, or would have vanished after being arrested by the Gestapo. Maybe you would have been killed/mangled/generally brutalized by SS or SA-members, if available on site.

And the citizens bystanding would have applauded.

THAT was Nazi-Germany.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by Shuye
Sounds like Nazi Germany all over, America style.

FEMA camps and this brutality goes intertwined.

Oh puuu-liiice - if you would have protested against (lets say) the deportation of jews to ghettos, what would have happened to you? What do you guess?

Righto, you would have followed them into a ghetto, or would have vanished after being arrested by the Gestapo. Maybe you would have been killed/mangled/generally brutalized by SS or SA-members, if available on site.

And the citizens bystanding would have applauded.

THAT was Nazi-Germany.

So? All it takes is to continue our complacent course -- and we are there.

A little more time and effort by the Fascists. We just had an "indefinite detention bill" get struck down by ONE VOTE in the Senate this week. The Nazis never broke the law, after all. Everything they did was legal. And the greatest crimes in America are now legal.

So are you admonishing someone for comparing current America to Nazis Germany, or do you hoping for it to get worse? Don't you think there were a few years while the Nazis were "not so bad?" And good people were ignored or beaten trying to stop them?

Will you be around for an apology if that happens? You aren't applauding -- but you and I are certainly bystanders.

Whether you agree with Occupy movements or not, the way the local governments and law enforcements have behaved have been completely embarrassing.

I guess we should all just bow down to the mighty PD's and local governments and tell them they're our daddies...

can't believe this is happening in America

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Considering they had a 72 hour warning that got stretched another couple days then 2 hours of warnings before the police said they would move in, i do not feel sorry for those people at all. They were pretty much asking for it.

A 72 hour warning of what? That police would be in the area? They weren't do anything wrong. There is nothing illegal about joining hands around a tent in a park. Why don't you just show your badge and get it over with? You've been chasing these OWS threads down with a passion for hate for a while now. Unfortunately, you have yet to make a valid point or an intelligible statement. If your object is to be hated amongst the "freedom" crowd, you're doing a fine job. If you have an agenda, it's quite apparent. If it's both, you are not wanted here.

I would love nothing more than to see an "Officer of safety" come kick you in the face in the middle of your family picnic, because he doesn't like rye bread. Get the picture?


Cheers,
Strype

There has to be a way that we can stop this brutality.

we have to talk to someone high up that is sympathatic of the movement and against these out of control cops.

We are giving these monsters too much control...

If you are going to protest, you have to accept what will happen. So they are OK to sit on the concrete and not be affected any way, but when the police restrain them, then it is a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you protest, accept the consequences. And it is not like these people were beaten or run over with tanks or even shot with machine guns. What is messed up is people acting like children throwing tantrums and then expecting authority to sit back and watch and do nothing. Some people sound like members of the Manson Family calling the police pigs. That is disrespect for authority. I want to ask these people who are anti-authority, if we did away with the police, how would you guarantee peace and safety for the citizens?

So suppose you take us back to a third-world nation that has no manufacturing or production, how do you propose to take care of all the people? These are things you have to consider, because the truth is, you have it pretty good here but you are spoiled as people. Are you willing to get off your butts and farm for all of society, or are you going to keep depending on those who do? Are you going to stay dependent on someone else producing your consumer goods that you can't live without?

Let's do away with all of our government, from the garbage collectors on up to the President, what would you do as a member of society to keep it from dying off? Do you have steps in place to protect society? And if you do away with the police, who is going to arrest the really bad guys? This writer did not have a bad experience, he had an experience he got himself into, and now throwing a tantrum over it. Police brutality? You have not seen what people in fascist and communist countries go through. It's like the hippie movement all over again, but this time, the occupy members are not cool enough to pull it off. Not original, not cool, and definitely not a group of thinking people, just a bunch of people who fall for the rhetoric, that is all, nothing more.

I keep hearing these people say they don't like how the current system is, but yet I hear nothing about how they would fix the problems they keep telling us exists.What are the real problems? Someone has more money than you? Is that the problem? Well guess what, you have more money than someone else, so spread your wealth with them.

Until you exactly define what the problem is (other than someone else has more money) and present solutions that will work, then stop pretending it is so bad for you.

I said this before people.. If Occupy wants to make a huge change in the way the US is.. the best thing to do is start citizens arresting the officers.. zip tie them hands and sit em down.

I will even lead it if they wanted.. seriously.. nothing too violent, just 4 people for every officers, and ziiiip., "now sit doggy" For 1400 heavily armed LAPD, you may need 10 people per officer, but itll stil work.

oooo... maybe, everyone should come like theives in the night, like the LAPD, and everyone should go one by one to officers homes and detain them there.. that way you secluded each officer 1 by 1.

It really has become a civil war, and the feds are stupid to continue letting this to happen. If they arent smart, its going to get realllllllllllll ugly.

This is ridiculously disturbing, and clearly out of hand. I'm so pissed right now that crap like this even happens to people. No one should have to suffer through that. My sympathies go out to the people who had to put up with their crap yet another time. Things are just getting worse and worse each day and I feel that it wont be long now before something major happens.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
If you are going to protest, you have to accept what will happen. So they are OK to sit on the concrete and not be affected any way, but when the police restrain them, then it is a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you protest, accept the consequences. And it is not like these people were beaten or run over with tanks or even shot with machine guns. What is messed up is people acting like children throwing tantrums and then expecting authority to sit back and watch and do nothing. Some people sound like members of the Manson Family calling the police pigs. That is disrespect for authority. I want to ask these people who are anti-authority, if we did away with the police, how would you guarantee peace and safety for the citizens?

So suppose you take us back to a third-world nation that has no manufacturing or production, how do you propose to take care of all the people? These are things you have to consider, because the truth is, you have it pretty good here but you are spoiled as people. Are you willing to get off your butts and farm for all of society, or are you going to keep depending on those who do? Are you going to stay dependent on someone else producing your consumer goods that you can't live without?

Let's do away with all of our government, from the garbage collectors on up to the President, what would you do as a member of society to keep it from dying off? Do you have steps in place to protect society? And if you do away with the police, who is going to arrest the really bad guys? This writer did not have a bad experience, he had an experience he got himself into, and now throwing a tantrum over it. Police brutality? You have not seen what people in fascist and communist countries go through. It's like the hippie movement all over again, but this time, the occupy members are not cool enough to pull it off. Not original, not cool, and definitely not a group of thinking people, just a bunch of people who fall for the rhetoric, that is all, nothing more.

I keep hearing these people say they don't like how the current system is, but yet I hear nothing about how they would fix the problems they keep telling us exists.What are the real problems? Someone has more money than you? Is that the problem? Well guess what, you have more money than someone else, so spread your wealth with them.

Until you exactly define what the problem is (other than someone else has more money) and present solutions that will work, then stop pretending it is so bad for you.

Protesters do not need to be run over by tanks or shot with machine guns before we may consider it an injustice
and a highly inflated punishment for a non-offense such as peaceful protest. Simply impeding the process of the right to assemble or the process for redress of grievances is excessive.

What we have throughout our nation is a collection of codes and infractions setup to limit the proper function of the rights of individuals and groups. They have been setup under the pretense of regulating the rights we are born with. But often are used to undermine our society for political or economic gain, protecting the status quo.

Your logic as it regards the individuals responsibility in the protesting and redress process is inherently flawed. You cannot rally against the cause of the protesters by stating an inability to have a plan for every minut detail.

I also believe the problem is pretty well defined and understood. If you need it explained or don't understand maybe you need to educate yourself more on the issue at hand before waylaying the cause based on the lack of a planned outcome.

In addition you really shouldn't state your opinion of the individuals or the OWS groups personal ability, personality, intelligence or education as fact. As that is not what your opinions are

What else better to make us not want to do it?

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by Shuye
Sounds like Nazi Germany all over, America style.

FEMA camps and this brutality goes intertwined.

Oh puuu-liiice - if you would have protested against (lets say) the deportation of jews to ghettos, what would have happened to you? What do you guess?

Righto, you would have followed them into a ghetto, or would have vanished after being arrested by the Gestapo. Maybe you would have been killed/mangled/generally brutalized by SS or SA-members, if available on site.

And the citizens bystanding would have applauded.

THAT was Nazi-Germany.

So? All it takes is to continue our complacent course -- and we are there.

A little more time and effort by the Fascists. We just had an "indefinite detention bill" get struck down by ONE VOTE in the Senate this week. The Nazis never broke the law, after all. Everything they did was legal. And the greatest crimes in America are now legal.

So are you admonishing someone for comparing current America to Nazis Germany, or do you hoping for it to get worse? Don't you think there were a few years while the Nazis were "not so bad?" And good people were ignored or beaten trying to stop them?

Will you be around for an apology if that happens? You aren't applauding -- but you and I are certainly bystanders.

That is a difficult question in a rarely completely analyzed area - what will come out of OWS? Will the USA devolve into a fascist police state - or did this already happen? Will the USA come out of this renewed and strenghtened?
A lot of this will depend on actions commited by all parties in this struggle between The People and The Power, with several parties in between them (police, media, politics), driven by and driving in them self both the people and the Power. Meh, forget "a lot", make that "all of it!". As long as the banksters aren't bearing the blame and taking personal responsibilities, they are free to go along the path, taking more and more of your money.

They won't stop if they aren't stopped.
They are programmed to function in this way - the only thing better than money in their pockets is more money in their pockets. Push everyone out of your way, here comes The Money! Altruism is for weaklings!

The instant they got enough influence, they will use that influence to make it seem that they are on the morally high ground. Oh, did this already happen? *whoopsi*

Well, we are doomed then.. Who should stop the Money now? They can buy whoever and whatever they want. If a civilized, peaceful demonstration is cleared by more than needed brutal forces, and the media reports about "dirty, filthy, jobless hobos covered up as real people were stopped before they could run amok by the Bravest Police forces EVER!" - well, then its over.

Were are your arms which you are always so proud of defending? When I read about a trend among banksters in wallstreet to buy pistols for defending themselves in case of rioting mobs, I was intrigued about the peoples intentions concerning those who stole the countries money away.. But nothing happened. No bankster declared that they did horrible things to the economy, no mad man tried to go on a killing spree in wallstreet.

In my opinion this shows clearly that the Money has already altered enough mental states in enough people that they accepted the problems as their own problems, that they didn't do enough to keep the economy running, that they should go out NOW and buy as much christmas presents as possible, until their debit and credit cards melt..

Good luck.
I will buy only some small presents for my kids and wife, every one else of my family will be invited for dinner and thats it. I make enough money, but we will put it on the side for worse times - and who would believe in better times nowadays? I'm glad the economy here is still running steady, but I'm mentally prepared for the inevitable - some sort of crash, fiscally, politically or in another way.


I hope this wasn't too gibberish, but the standstill with OWS is getting on my nerves. No message from your president, no competent media-coverage, OWS is doomed for demise, I think.

so much i want to say but its all repetitive.

just keep adding it to the pile of crap we call our daily lives.

........what is it going to take for us to say enough is enough??

i fear the event that sparks global anarchy will come too little too late.. its almost too late now.

the truth is staring us in the face but we dont have the balls to stare back...