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Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked

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posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman
 


Parents being billed for the internet access their kids use during computer class. They are in fact using someone else's internet service, in this case the School's so locigally asks is when does the parents start getting billed for it? Throughout my entire friends list there are a rough estimate of over 250 kids and when do they start getting billed so I can warn them of this?

Scam artist?

Can you or anyone possibly explain why an American having a decent job is this evil and Satanical thing because quite frankly it has now come to the point where a stance is now Anti American and deep rooted in hatred for anything this nation does to try and get us to stand on our own two feet again?

It is no longer about stupid and moronic ideals anymore as it is now about how are WE ALL going to move THIS NATION forward and do not give a toss about anything else but that. Opinions were sought after but a vast majority of those stuck on repeat in the matrix known as the paradigm were threatened with embarrassment, death, misfortune if they even dared to speak out against those very people who've been controlling their every move from the getgo.

Lack of wishing for a better nation will kill this nation, this is not some opinion but is a darn fact! When are you going to realize this?

Please do not think I'm trying to take a swipe at you as I am surely not and would not do. I look at you as someone who has lost their way. I am here to tell you if you have that hope is not lost. We all can rise above this entire mess if we really wanted to but to some they'd rather play politics, It is NO LONGER a game!
edit on 8-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)


First off, keep your pity. I do not need nor want it.
I have lost nothing. I know my path and proceed on it every day, without taking from others.
You, are clueless.
The internet at PUBLIC schools is paid for, via taxes. Property taxes. Again, you are clueless.
All ISPs have a department set aside solely for Govt.
So, the fact that the child uses the Public Schools WIFI and LAN is not relevant.

The idea that everyone has a guaranteed job is a Utopian Wet Dream of Communist and Socialists.
Not going to happen. It is not sustainable, from a Company aspect.
But, I am sure that if the Govt takes over private industry, then the step towards this if more likely.
You know, provide a job to everyone, basically get a paycheck from the Govt, then the Govt takes taxes out of the Govt check to pay a portion of your next paycheck.
To bad that idea is doomed from the start. It can't happen unless the Govt borrows more, prints more money or just taxes more. A projections show that cycle ends quickly and bad.

We don't need a New Nationalist Vision of America.
Govt need only get out of the life of the individual and stop putting its hands in the citizens wallets.

You are amazingly clueless in believing anything short that there are 2 guarantees in life.
You will die and you will pay taxes. Last I heard, cheating death is more obtainable then cheating taxes. That, is a very sad state of affairs.

You go ahead and rely of Govt to provide you crap.
I will provide for myself and do what I can to stop the Govt from taking from me to provide you with the crap you covet so much.




posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman
 


This is so far from irrelevant it is not funny, Denying someone access to the internet because they can't afford a $70 + a month internet connect card. Deny someone access to something that's fast becoming a right?

Someone does have to pay yes, a small tax to guarandamntee that the entire land area of The United States Of America is one massively giant WiFi hotspot is the end result here and care not for what anyone thinks about this.

For every major advancement comes a small price!


You again? Time for a spanking I Guess.

The internet is not a right. Never has been.

The companies providing free WIFI, at the ISP level, are doing so under the guise of Free.
It is not free, nothing ever is. They charge higher fees to the paying customers, get a tax right off from the Govt and then get to parade around as if they are the Champions of the Internet.
But, so long as the Keynesian Economic plans of Obama and Company keep marching, it will always appear as free, so long you ignore your Pay Statement and the amount TAKEN from you, to give to the others.



Who forces you to buy internet access from anyone?
Sounds like you are complaining that companies do what companies want to do and then pass the cost onto you. Isn't that um...the free market?


It sure is the free market.
I am not complaining.
Just pointing out the facts,.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by IshmaelKipling
All those high school students should have agreed to all get up and leave as soon as he started his bull# speech.

Everything that comes out of Obama's mouth is nothing but bull#. There is no need to pay attention to him. Not enough Americans realize yet that he is just a puppet with no true power.


Not a fan of Obama, but are you saying he was wrong by saying the "free market doesn't work"? Because if you are, you are 100% WRONG


I have to jump in here.

The Free Market rocks...Obama did not say the "Free Market" does not work, he praised it and rightfully so.

Secondly...The Free market is limited in it's advantages. A pure free market unpoliced or regulated would encourage stealing, crime, embezzlement, even murder...

Honestly...follow it to it's natural extreme. Eliminate government, let money rule. No regulations, no police....darwinism at it's finest.

Socialism in it's natural, complete form sucks...history has disproven it repeatedly. It is a formula for tyranny and corruption. It enslaves nations. China is Socialist and they have moved aggressively toward the free market for a reason. Still Socialist, but without their free market initiatives they would have collapsed like the Soviet Union.

Now....what is required is a REGULATED free market system where it is advantageous...competition spurring innovation, price competition - lower costs, better, less expensive manufacturing and development etc.

With nationalized functions where the free market has no lever....If a TV is too expensive someone will not buy it or they will work harder to earn the money to afford it. They don't have that option if they need a new heart or get cancer. Cancer doesn't care how much you can afford.

How would you feel if the next time your house caught fire the truck showed up and asked to negotuiate a price before putting out the fire? After you crash your car the Paramedic calls through the crushed window "Do you have a credit card handy?"

Healthcare, Fire Protection, A national defense force, police, roads etc. etc. some things have no place in the free market.

All of that said, people will still go to extremes and claim it is a choice between the "Free market" and "Socialism"...the PR folks are effen with your head. It is a false choice.

Whenever things slide beyond the free market...like economic crisis...natural disaster etc. the government has a role in stepping in and even a duty in helping it's people survive.

Free Market...Properly regulated...and government assistance where the free market can't help.
edit on 9-12-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Govt will never get out of the way and that is that and to wish or want for anything else will not ever happen ever!

Companies deregulated the entire 2008 financial crisis. Is this right? Should a financial company like Goldman Sachs or a Walmart be allowed to do whatever the flip it wants regardless and to the detriment of what everyone else thinks? I think not and Govt will never get out of the way of corporations that exploit people.

You ever wondered why more people know more about the overpaid sports false idol then the Constitution? Until you can give me a logical answer my convo with you is on hold.

Also, Why is it ok for us to have a "Bought & Paid" Congress?



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by IshmaelKipling
Healthcare, Fire Protection, A national defense force, police, roads etc. etc. some things have no place in the free market.


Add conrtol over the either minting or tendering of the national gold bullion deposits and the ability to print, tender, issue and regulate money as well as the ability to dictate and decide upon monetary policy as that is the deathnail of any Government!

Add to the list of entities, Civil Centres (municipal playgrounds, community gardens, public monuments, public memorials, public educational facilities and respective offices, municipal swimming centers, municipal ball field and all associated leagues and offices, municipal basketball, tennis courts, skating rinks, running tracks, cooling centres) , Courthouse properties, municipal properties, Public/County/Parish/State/Commonwealth/National Parks, Control of revenue collection for either the interstate and other toll roads or crossings, parks, taxes. tariffs. fines, sales tax, income tax, corporate tax, or for any other industry that there exists the very real and imminent danger or threat to either the health, security or protection over these United States and her people and her nation! This is not some opinion but this is a fact!
edit on 9-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by SirTFiedSkeptic
reply to post by xEphon
 


Well at least we know who all the brainless, knee-jerk, take anything some random stranger on the internet says as gospel truth MORONS are. Unfortunately, they are 99% of ATS. Deny ignorance, indeed.


Damn right, although the percentage is probably much lower, it's still a serious problem. People believe whatever they wish to believe.
edit on 9-12-2011 by snowcrash911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


Obama is just a puppet same as the last bunch of leaders we have had! I don't understand why it is americans are so intent to go after him when he is just a PR man that is told what to do! No matter whom is in office wont matter cause this is just a cushion to soften the blow against the elitist bankers, industrialist and entrepenuers that control it all! Wake up people there is no democracy, freedom or legitimate leaders that run the world. We
are all just pawns on the chess board of the Elite and all are subject to sacrifice, imprisonment and ruin! No elections will save us! not Ron Paul! Not anyone! "United we stand divided we fall" this was never more true then the world we live in today! We must evolve or we will perish this i can promise you! Revolution is the only way out now! We must make getting these elitist out of power our top priority or they will rid themselves of us! Their plan is to reduce our numbers to five hundred million and this plan has been in the works for a long time. Just look up the georgia guidestones and you will see it first hand! Wake up people cause our real enemies are in the shadows and obama is just a puppet!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


In theory I would aggree with you but the problem is that the government is so intertwined with big businesses.
There is no way that the markets and government will ever be separated again! Our monetary systems is a gigantic failure and we need a new system based on sound ideals like; production based on longevity and conservation instead of failure and waste! Limited currencies backed by some kind of value! Goods produced where they are needed! Jobs for those of us that are willing to work that provide a living wage! Corporations existing to serve the people! healthcare for all those that need it and is not based on profits!
Basically anything that limits the ability for this system to be taken advantage of! A rule of law that really serves and protects the people and not the plutocracy!
Our system is seriously corrupted and controlled! until this is eleviated we will never see justice served, we wont be free and we will always fear TPTB!



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by seachange

Hint: the free markets are proven to work and that is a fact.



Agreed ...

The problem is, people are screaming for communism or socialism ... without understanding why. They have this notion that communism is something good and noble, and scream for it, without having bothered to read the "manifesto" to know what it is about.

The other thing that most people do not understand. Is that Mr. Goldman Sachs and other "rich" people want communism. Because in a communist or socialist state, they are the government. The rich fear free market. Because in a free market, the rich can be easily underbid and in such a market, it's anyones choice and anyone can win. In such a market, Mr. Goldman Sach can become poor ... and that sure as hell is not what he wants.

The rich want regulations, that will make sure that they stay rich and there is no opposition. They want regulations that will allow them to give the public minimum wages, just enough to eat ... but not enough to start their own business. This is exactly what corporations want ... they are screaming for socialist values, to ensure their own riches.

People scream "bankers" ... the idea of a big corporate bank, is a communist idea ... not a free market idea, or capitalist idea. What people don't understand, that instead of "corporate" they should fill in "national", "federal" or "global" .... and will end up with "communism". Nowhere, does "free" or "freedom" fit within those ideas, or the need of the rich. They have precisely the same notion, as the Kings before them ... bind the people in poverty ... like the Soviet Union.

Total blindness ...

edit on 9-12-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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I've noticed that the right-wing "free-market" libertarians here take the Soviet Union and China to be examples of Communism.

For Marx, Communism is a stateless, classless society characterized by abundance. The workers control the means of production and goods are produced for social need, not profit. Let me repeat that, the State withers away in a communist society; the State as we know it would not exist. Now I ask you, was this the case in either the Soviet Union or China?

Those who think that the State can coexist independently alongside the "free-market" are simply deluded. Capital will eventually bring it under its control as it has done since the very beginning. The State is a tool of the ruling class, which is why the State and the Market are inseparable.

The poster above claims that the Rich want Communism - what utter nonsense. Please get your information on radical left ideology from places other than Fox News. The Libertarian conception of the "free-market" is Utopian and has never existed.

Marx cared more about liberty than any of you "free-market" libertarians.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
.I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.


If they did get the top 1% of the vote, they'd be in.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by bjarneorn

The problem is, people are screaming for communism or socialism ... without understanding why. They have this notion that communism is something good and noble, and scream for it, without having bothered to read the "manifesto" to know what it is about.

The problem is actually people like you that do not understand either word and that they are actually different and communism does not have a manifesto. Men have manifestos.



posted on Dec, 9 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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So my posts about how America was founded with and exists on a wonderful socialist infrastructure is off topic now? Accusing me of stealing wifi because I drive on roads is on topic?
Socialism works. Socialism works in America.
Everyone posting in this thread right now is enjoying the benefits of that.

Nothing to do with stealing wifi.



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo

Except America never had free markets. Not in the last 98 years at least.

Remember the robber barons? The war industry that started in WW1?

Free markets died the day the FED was created and the day political contributions from corporations were allowed.


Remember that the Feds were given control of this country by PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS who also implemented the IRS as it exists today and other laws which are UnConstitutional...

I just read about some more really bad news. In MISSOULA, Montana, the city council is enforcing Agenda 21 from the UN.

Agenda21 in Missoula

This is a move also introduced by PROGRESSIVES claiming that "we must do our part to combat "anthropogenic Climate Change"...

Some of us in these forums have been warning people about this, and as always many didn't listen, or just wanted to ignore the facts.

What is happening in Missoula will be common place in other towns around the country. It is part of the PROGRESSIVE agenda. But many conservatives, and Republicans in power, who have been bought off, will also vote for this type of PROGRESSIVE laws.


edit on 10-12-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 03:04 AM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
So my posts about how America was founded with and exists on a wonderful socialist infrastructure is off topic now? Accusing me of stealing wifi because I drive on roads is on topic?
Socialism works. Socialism works in America.
Everyone posting in this thread right now is enjoying the benefits of that.

Nothing to do with stealing wifi.


In fact the implementation of socialist laws in the U.S. shows the CONTRARY to what you claim...

We are in this economic crisis because of the FEDS, which were implemented and given control of the economy of this country by socialists known as PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS.

Heck the IMF is also another socialist group, and has helped in making the economic crisis GLOBAL...

Sorry but your socialist utopia has been proven not to work...

The implementation of the Feds in 1913, and other progressive programs implemented to suck dry all businesses, also helped cause the depression and economic crisis in the 1930s.

Now the economic risis is repeating, but it is global in nature and much worse than the one in the 1930s.

So, you can keep your socialist utopia buddy... If you want, get together with other progressives, and leftwingers who want it, and get an island and implement there your socialist utopia...


edit on 10-12-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by lrak2
I've noticed that the right-wing "free-market" libertarians here take the Soviet Union and China to be examples of Communism.

For Marx, Communism is a stateless, classless society characterized by abundance. The workers control the means of production and goods are produced for social need, not profit. Let me repeat that, the State withers away in a communist society; the State as we know it would not exist. Now I ask you, was this the case in either the Soviet Union or China?


YES IT IS... Those countries were in the first stages of communism, but the problem is that NO COUNTRY WILL EVER GET PAST THAT STAGE...

It is not possible at all for everyone to own everything and nothing, and for everyone to control everything, hence these systems keep the state but claim it represents the people, and they supplant every person in power with the most ardent revolutionaries who are always militaristic, but it never really does represent the people. It just keeps the "idea of the revolution alive" and it puts the "idea of revolution" before any Human Rights, and before individualism. It also does do a lot of brainwashing and indoctrination to make people accept the socialist/communist utopia...



Originally posted by lrak2...
Marx cared more about liberty than any of you "free-market" libertarians.


BS, and this type of comment by people like you shows exactly how the mayority of people like you really know NOTHING about what Marx wanted to implement...

Marx wanted to FORCE collectivist socialism/communism, and this goes AGAINST freedom....

One of Marx quotes implies CLEARLY that the only way that there could be peace in a collectivist socialist/communist society is if there are no adversaries...


In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat."

www.marxists.org...


"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie,to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible." (pp.31 and 37, seventh German edition, 1906

www.marxists.org...


The bourgeoisie INCLUDES all small business owners, and ANYONE who does any sort of business to make a living.

Marx, and Engles, alongisde every other socialist/communist have ALWAYS wanted to FORCE their ideologies, and with the implementation and acceptance of the revolution Marx and Engels themselves state that EVERYTHING will change, including private property (which does not exist under socailism/communism), labor, personal freedom (which is ALWAYS restricted because the revolution comes before the individual), the family, education, the status of women, nationalism and religion.

Under communism the "revolution" comes first, and foremost than any other social relation, and because of it Human Rights, and individualism are ALWAYS suppressed under such socialist/communist doctrines...

You know NOTHING about this system...


edit on 10-12-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



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