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Rumours Higgs boson has been detected at LHC

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posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Rumours are circulating that scientists working at the LHC have finally glimpsed the elusive higgs boson. According to PhysicsWorld.com, CERN's Scientific Policy Committee will be meeting on Tuesday (Dec. 13) to discuss, amongst other things, an update on the search for the Higgs boson. Teams from the LHC's ATLAS and CMS experiments will be in attendance. physicsworld.com...


The particle-physics rumour mill is going into overdrive as physicists look forward to next week’s meeting of the CERN’s Scientific Policy Committee – which will include Higgs updates from the LHC’s ATLAS and CMS experiments. If various blogs are to be believed – and a trusted source assures us that the claims are credible – the two experiments are closing in on the Higgs boson. This undiscovered particle and its associated field explain how electroweak symmetry broke after the Big Bang and why some fundamental particles are blessed with the property of mass. The latest rumour is that both ATLAS and CMS have evidence that the Higgs mass is about 125 GeV/C2 at confidence levels of 3.5σ and 2.5σ respectively. At 3.5σ, the measurement could be the result of a random fluke just 0.1% of the time whereas at 2.5σ the fluke factor is about 1%. If you are really optimistic, I believe you can add these two results together in quadrature to get an overall result with a significance of 4.3σ. While these might sound like fantastic odds to you and me, particle physicists normally wait until they have a confidence of 5σ or greater before they call it a “discovery”. Anything over 3σ is described as “evidence”.




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:06 AM
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Well lets hope it's going to be mindblowing news.

We could use something like that nowadays.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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This rumour has actually been circulating for a while.. There was a suspicion it was found although scientists had to go through mountains of data to actually confirm it..
The scientists were also warned not to speculate about it until that had been done..

maybe they will make the announcement on dec 13th?



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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I believe they are taking their time, as this is going to disprove religion
It wont end it as i previously wrote, as people will continue to believe a sky fairy created everything, regardless of the scientific evidence provided


They have to go about it the right way so not to annoy too many religious fanatics
edit on 7-12-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 
This is not to be confused with the rumours from a few months ago. These new results that will be presented on the 13th dec are from both ATLAS and CMS detectors. As far as i can tell this seminar at cern has been hurriedly organized for the 13th because of new data being analyzed.

The interesting thing for me is that the heads of the two groups that work on the Atlas and CMS detectors at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will give the talks. That in itself is telling – usually more junior researchers present updates on the search for the missing particle.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by Atzil321
These new results that will be presented on the 13th dec are from both ATLAS and CMS detectors.



Its been mentioned before in another thread, but supposedly these two teams are deliberately NOT talking to each other before the conference so that they give their own interpretation of the data not diluted by what the other team thinks.
Two independent opinions.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I believe they are taking their time, as this is going to disprove religion
It wont end it as i previously wrote, as people will continue to believe a sky fairy created everything, regardless of the scientific evidence provided


They have to go about it the right way so not to annoy too many religious fanatics
edit on 7-12-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)


How does this disprove religion?


All this would mean is that everything is made of these little "Higgs Boson Particles", just like the computer screen shows a picture but is really all made of pixels...



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 





I believe they are taking their time, as this is going to disprove religion


spoken like someone with an extremely limited understanding of particle physics and what finding the Higgs actually means.

This does NOTHING to disprove "religion" it merely sets the goal posts farther back as to what we can attribute to "god" and what we can understand with physics.

Ignoring string theory, physics is a math based, observational science. finding the Higgs completes the set of elementary particles for quantum physics, and explains why some particles have mass and others don't. It can potentially explain the forces at work and laws in place that allowed the big bang to happen, and how the universe formed after that.

It still doesn't nothing to explain WHY the big bang happened, or what was there before the big bang.

something a lot of people don't understand about the big bang and such is that almost not physicist believes the universe sprang from nothing, as is the common misconception.

but since we are inside the system (universe) and have no ability to step back and view it as a whole, we have no way to even begin to approach figuring out what was here before this universe.

The most compelling for me is string theory.

One of the theories states that our entire universe is actually a giant floating membrane or "brane" floating in a higher dimensional universe (sounds new age i know) and there are countless other "branes" floating out there too. To explain the big bang a theory states that it is possible that two of these branes touched at some point, releasing the energy we refer to as the big bang.

String theory also states there are numerous extra dimensions of space all around us, folded up and twisted into tiny invisible dimensions, as well as several (9 to 11) parallel universes. This also explains why the other forces of nature (electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force) are so strong while gravity is so weak.

One of the ideas brings it back to general relativity, mass distorts spacetime and creates the gravitational effect, but it's so weak because, unlike the other forces that are essentially locked into a "plane" gravity is free to move between the dimensions having it's force over the total instead of the one we occupy.

It sounds crazy, but the math works. finding the Higgs will be a break through, and also quite depressing.

We will know we were right, and have a full understanding of reality, but as such, there will be nothing left to discover.

I suspect, much like cracking the first atom open, or smashing the first protons together, we'll uncover yet another layer.

Currently, we can never look close enough to detect "strings" of string theory, but that doesn't mean we never will.

Bring on the Higgs and whatever else is out there.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I believe they are taking their time, as this is going to disprove religion
It wont end it as i previously wrote, as people will continue to believe a sky fairy created everything, regardless of the scientific evidence provided


They have to go about it the right way so not to annoy too many religious fanatics
edit on 7-12-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)


Of course it is not going to disprove religion, however much you clutch any straw you can find in order to delude yourself that it has this consequence.

There is no scientific evidence at all about the nature of the origin of the universe, i.e., about what existed at time t0.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Erm....it would explain why matter has mass...and thus would account for the entire universe's existance...thus proving there is no "creator"



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 


Here, I'll even help you prove your point with laws already established in science.



The law of conservation of mass (matter):

The law implies that mass cannot be created or destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles; and that for any chemical process in a closed system, the mass of the reactants must equal the mass of the products.



Conservation of energy [the 1st law of thermodynamics:

energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.

So this proves that the universe is eternal and that the universe is always changing, so it was never created. Does that mean that a god can't exist? Well, it means that a god that created the universe can't exist, but there are still other views of God such as pantheism which says that God IS the universe



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by alfa1
 
Yes two sets of data that more or less come to the same conclusion, which is why it's causing a stir. All the naysayers must be feeling a little uncomfortable about now



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Razziazoid
Well lets hope it's going to be mindblowing news.

We could use something like that nowadays.


It would be more mind blowing if they couldn't find it.
But yeah, still if they do it would make a change from the normal transmission.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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As I recently found out not to long ago, finding the Higgs doesn't really mean much other than they are on the right "path" so to speak. There has been a lot of hype about the Higgs.and the particle doesn't account for all "mass" it only accounts for .04% or .4% (I forget which one) of mass. There is a whole book written about it by a scientist working at CERN.

A lot of people have a lot invested in the Higgs being found so we will see what they say. This isn't the first time there have been "rumors" about the Higgs being found. We will see what they have to say on the 13th.

Edit to add:

Here we go the book is called A Zeptospace Odyssey: A Journey into the Physics of the LHC by Gian Francesco Giudice. And the Higgs Boson will only account of 0.2% of the total mass of the universe, if found.
edit on 7-12-2011 by Timing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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So, I THINK it means this:

The finding would give further credence to the Standard Model and the Higgs mechanism-- thus proving the math which supported the theory.

If my assessment is accurate, the real boon is that much research on alternative theories can cease and be redirected to the next step.

Please redirect ME if I am off track or missing something of even greater importance.

As an aside, the timing is perfect for me, as I just started reading Herman Wouk's, A Hole in Texas!

P. S.

Human Beings invented a language called mathematics,and used that language to better understand the Universe and all that is in it-- and it works. Frankly, that is the mind-blowing sense of awe I take from such discoveries. Sometimes, I am proud to be a human.
edit on 7-12-2011 by Frira because: PS



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Is it correct to say that what they are trying to prove is that if you can get to the heart of an atom at it's smallest point, it is essentially pure energy without mass and the Higgs is what initiates the weak and strong nuclear forces and changes it to matter?

That there isn't "stuff" in the universe, just pure energy which is acted upon by an unknown force to give it mass and create matter?

And that photons are immune to this effect because they are massless?

Does that create a paradox? A particle must have mass to be acted upon by Higgs, but Higgs is what gives a particle mass.

Would the most likely side effect of the Higgs energy/mass transfer be gravity itself?

I tried looking some answers up on the web, so I don't feel too bad about being confused by this, seems like everyone else is too



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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More than likely, they will announce that - while looking for the Higgs - they found this other really cool phenomena that may prove to be even more interesting than the Higgs.

In all honesty, it's unlikely they have found the Higgs in this short amount of time.

I will be forward and say that I am biased, here. I've never been a big fan of the Higgs, and think it would be incredibly boring to find it 'as expected' - behaving according to many of the models that predict its existence.

Whatever the discovery, though, it needs to lead to us being able to simulate a universal attractor (gravity). It would greatly simplify life aboard orbital platforms.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I believe they are taking their time, as this is going to disprove religion
It wont end it as i previously wrote, as people will continue to believe a sky fairy created everything, regardless of the scientific evidence provided


They have to go about it the right way so not to annoy too many religious fanatics
edit on 7-12-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)


That's a pretty bold statement LOL.

It would seem to me, being physicist and all, that there would be a probability that the mass component of certain particles leads down a different trail, but, in order order to see the water in the glass, one should really be outside the glass, not in the water. My analogy simply means that in order to understand the system fully, the highest probability of understanding is if you are positioned outside the system. We had the same problem with gravity interferometry, there is a non-zero probability of measuring long period gravity waves but not directly as the gravity waves cause changes that effect measurements and analysis tools equally, thereby negating anything but immeasurable differentials. Alternative attempts by temporal proxy proved viable.

I think whatever "cosmic muffin" people subscribe to might be a little pissed by your presumption LOL. I don't know what created the universe, but from all I have seen and done, I believe it was created, even if by accident.

God - "Hey, honey, I just spilled my coffee on this circuit board for the plasma controller and I think it changed the frequency and did something strange, you should see it."
Mrs. God - "Don't start another fire like last week and clean up your mess before you come out of there!"
God - "You don't get it, I just made a universe in this little magnetic bubble, it's amazing and so mathematically symmetrical and it was an accident, go figure!"
Mrs. God - "Stop fooling around, it's a hobby damn it, come get some dinner before I accidentally drop it in the sink."
God - "Gimme five minutes, I just want to tweak it a bit and see what it does." a few seconds pass, "Whoa, is that life?"
Mrs. God thinking to herself "I wish He would get a job and get out of that dungeon He calls a lab."

Cheers - Dave



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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I want to be more clear about my original thought:

finding the Higgs Boson, which is also known as "The God Particle", would only prove that the universe is eternal and that everything is made of the same thing, but that does NOT mean that God does not exist.

There are people that believes that the universe is God and that the universe has harmony - a beautiful orchestration.. and this is true, look at how logical all of these scientific equations are...

If you believe that this proves that there is no God, then you obviously have not heard of Pantheism...

This only disproves Deism, Theism, and Polytheim but NOT pantheism...

Com'mon people, it is time to upgrade your religions to version 2.0 now that the new science information is out.




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

you're actually incorrect. entropy points to a finite beginning, and with logical deduction, points to the universe suffering "heat death".

ergo, there was a finite beginning, and there will be an "end". an infinite quantity cannot exist in time. why do you think black holes have event horizons?



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