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Texas Welfare Office Shooting...Is this what our entitlement society creates?

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posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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A friend posted a link to this on my Facebook page. I went on to read the article and many questions came to mind. Not knowing any history of said woman...no knowledge of mental illness, incredible hard times, fear or any idea what caused this, I went on to ponder what this country would be like if our entitlement programs were more of a stepping stone to better things and not a cage. A cage that sometimes locks from the inside as well as out.

Full story




SAN ANTONIO — A Texas woman who for months was unable to qualify for food stamps pulled a gun in a state welfare office and staged a seven-hour standoff with police that ended with her shooting her two children before killing herself, officials said Tuesday. The children, a 10-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl, remained in critical condition Tuesday.


I wholeheartedly believe in helping someone when they are down. No, this incident is not the norm for those impoverished or otherwise in need. But, has a trend been created through our entitlement programs? Have we created a monster that feeds on the self esteem and individuality of the American people?

What can we do to avert situations like this? How can we strive to be a society of caring individuals that genuinely want programs that heal and help people stand proud as opposed to creating leeches and those who grow to know nothing else and subsequently fall into a feeling of helplessness?

Now, I am not asking who is to blame. What I would like to read are honest and sincere ideas on what to do.




posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Sometimes these very sad and tragic events aren't able to be avoided. I'm sure the blame game will begin in the political arena in that area.

So the children are in critical condition it says? Well at least they will get help.

My heart goes out to those youngsters and I hope they get into a loving/nurturing home if they survive.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69

But, has a trend been created through our entitlement programs? Have we created a monster that feeds on the self esteem and individuality of the American people?
Now, I am not asking who is to blame. What I would like to read are honest and sincere ideas on what to do.


Not based on this incident. A trend implies frequency.

What we need to do is adopt an ideology that does not disenfranchise most of the people to serve a few powerful elite.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Sagittarian69
 


Dear Sagittarian69,

This was not about a feeling of entitlement, she killed herself and her kids, she did not know how to feed them or clothe them or give them a place to sleep. She believed death was better or if she was completely insane, we have the same situation. Unemployment is at 20% of the intended workforce (govt. numbers are garbage as people fall of the statistics when they cease getting unemployment, it doesn't mean they got a job).

The question is simple, if we continue losing jobs, what do we do with those willing to work when there is no work? How long should we assist people who are willing to work? How bout, till we can give them work?



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Sagittarian69
 


Wow, how sad. San Antonio is a cheap area to live in and knowing that you have to earn quite a good income with two children to not be able to qualify for Food Stamps, I can't help but wonder if things like drug addiction were not involved here? Or perhaps insanity.

Food Stamps would just be the trigger. An Entitlement culture might lead her to pick that office to do this, but it would be something else that actually lead to it. She likely would have snapped had she been wealthy.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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I see a woman who's trying to feed her kids and got to the point where she felt that her only option is to kill them and herself; that doing so would be more merciful and sane than living.

The entitlement society didn't create this; rather, cutting safety nets constantly at a time when we've got high unemployment and poverty all over the place did.

How do we fix this?

No more free trade, except with countries on equal footing who can actually give us something back. AKA we immediately end free-trade with Mexico and China.

We invest in our country's infrastructure rather than policing the world.

We help OUR poor instead of sending out foreign aid to countries that hate us.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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The question is simple, if we continue losing jobs, what do we do with those willing to work when there is no work? How long should we assist people who are willing to work? How bout, till we can give them work?
reply to post by AQuestion
 


I wish I had a simple answer. I like the idea of helping those that wish to help themselves even if current conditions will not allow it. So, yes, help them til they can find work. If someone finds themselves on a program for assistance I feel it should be one that guides them back into a means to be self sustaining and not our current programs that seem to encourage dependance.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Food Stamps would just be the trigger. An Entitlement culture might lead her to pick that office to do this, but it would be something else that actually lead to it. She likely would have snapped had she been wealthy.


I do tend to lean towards some mental issue. I do believe that either way, sane or not, the entitlement scenario was her gateway. I guess if she were rich it would have been an incident at the local garden club.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
I see a woman who's trying to feed her kids and got to the point where she felt that her only option is to kill them and herself; that doing so would be more merciful and sane than living.

We certainly have polar opposite ways of looking at the world. I'd view her as a victim of a mean and nasty world with terminally bad judgement and selfish if she'd simply killed herself at home and in private. Selfish because leaving her two kids in a rough world with absolutely no one left is just wrong, however bad things get in life.

As it stands though, I see her as a capital murderer who cheated the state's special room by killing herself before she could be taken into custody. What did the 10 and 12 year old do to be shot by their own mother? Some of what we see in life today, I really can sit back and say....well...I can see how a person could reach that point. Desperation....lack of options...a variety of things to explain the things we see these days. Attempted murder to your two preteen children though? I guess she reached a place I'll never be able to understand.

I also see what gun free state buildings bring. Texas of all places.... One woman was able to hold a stand off for 7 whole hours. In almost ANY other public place in that state she likely would have discovered she wasn't the only one with a gun, just the only one with ill intent on her mind. The children may have avoided being shot at point blank range.. I wonder how many workers in that building actually did have legal weapons out in their cars, where they are allowed to keep them but couldn't legally bring them inside?



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Sagittarian69
 


Dear Sagittarian69,



So, yes, help them til they can find work. If someone finds themselves on a program for assistance I feel it should be one that guides them back into a means to be self sustaining and not our current programs that seem to encourage dependance.


I don't doubt that your heart is in the right place. Problem is that 20% of the willing workers may not have any work for the next five years. I am surrounded by people who want to work and cannot because there are no jobs, I help them out because of it. I have also known people that were more than happy to not work in exchange for a government check that payed them not to work. I don't know that the government can tell one from the other, I cannot do so in advance.

Maybe we should be willing to feed, clothe and house people until we know whether or not they are willing to work and then pay them based on their work's value. I don't want to pay people based on what they contribute, I want to pay them based on what they are willing to do. That is a tough one, if I hold you back or push you forward, shouldn't that be taken into account? Peace.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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How do we fix this? No more free trade, except with countries on equal footing who can actually give us something back. AKA we immediately end free-trade with Mexico and China. We invest in our country's infrastructure rather than policing the world. We help OUR poor instead of sending out foreign aid to countries that hate us.
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck
 


This is what I was looking for....solutions. I am a firm believer in helping yourself before helping another. Not to be superior but, to place yourself in a position to actually be helpful. It starts with the individual and progresses outward from there...neighborhood,town,county,state,country...etc. I think what makes it so bad is that our country's leaders bypass the previous and move on from there.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck
 


Really? Killing your children because of the political climate?

When did we start to make excuses for the insane?

Mothers kill their children every day almost. Not long ago I read it happens about 200 times a year. It's because the women are mentally ill and I think everything else is just people assigning their own anger to the incident.

The only people I could see trying to make this a political issue are corrupt politicians using it for control and the Partisans they control. Sadly way to many people are easy to control.

Did you not notice she could not qualify for Food Stamps? So, what did she do with the money instead of caring for her children. This no doubt has a very large back story that has nothing to do with politics. That and she is clearly insane.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Maybe we should be willing to feed, clothe and house people until we know whether or not they are willing to work and then pay them based on their work's value.
reply to post by AQuestion
 


This, I would think, goes way back. During a time when communities cared for each other. I would like to see that again. As I basically said in another post, charity starts at home. It seems our government started with country and moved on from there. If it starts with the individual and grows then what you suggest would happen naturally.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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Did you not notice she could not qualify for Food Stamps?
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


She missed her appointment and did not fill out the forms properly. 18 pages worth. It sure seems a lot but, still no excuse.




When did we start to make excuses for the insane?


We have been making excuses for them for a few decades now. But, the main focus here was what to do in order to fix our entitlement system to avoid possibly sane people being "driven" to this kind of behavior.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Sagittarian69
 


Dear Sagittarian69,



This, I would think, goes way back. During a time when communities cared for each other. I would like to see that again. As I basically said in another post, charity starts at home. It seems our government started with country and moved on from there. If it starts with the individual and grows then what you suggest would happen naturally.


Again, I am a Pacifist and a Christian, so my opinion is biased.We should start with all and not just family. I cannot stand to look at starved African children when my own eat well. Charity does not start at home, it starts with those who need it the most IMHO. Peace.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by calnorak
 


Despondent, disillusioned, or insane... I wonder if our approach to entitlements could have caused this. Perhaps the politicians will fall upon this. It still does not leave we the people without responsibility. Not direct but, perhaps in our mindset.
I did notice that authorities were initially unable to get in contact with any of her family. I am curious as to what history is there.
I will try to find links later on any information concerning the children. I hope they survive.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


I understand your approach to this. If I have one meal and someone is hungry should I give it to them? Then I would be hungry. Perhaps your point is that someone else would step up and feed me as well? On a deeper level I can agree with the idea of that happening but, this goes in to a higher spiritual conversation that could be had in another thread. (Perhaps I will make one)

For now, what can we do to make our entitlement system function better?



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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Um.... only in America?

Here in Canada we have many "welfare offices" and this doesn't happen...

mix gun "rights" with no jobs, crappy economy, and no free healthcare = people are going to shoot each other...



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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It is a sad day for humanity when a woman - a mother - for whatever reason thinks that killing her children and herself is a solution.

She may have had a mental health issue or the stressors in her life were so pressing that she became mentally unstable because no tangible - physical help was offered - she wanted food stamps - I would suggest she wanted food.

To (attempt) killing your children and then kill yourself - for food stamps - she was in a dark and lonely place. Filling in forms does not help unless the forms lead directly to the help you are seeking. This is a troubling story and sadder for the children who may survive with psychological damage as well as physical.

I will bet that people come forward to help the children - and rightly so. Why couldn't someone have helped her before she had a complete meltdown? For food stamps - for food...it beggars belief.

Much Peace...to the mother and her children...



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by AQuestion
 


I understand your approach to this. If I have one meal and someone is hungry should I give it to them? Then I would be hungry. Perhaps your point is that someone else would step up and feed me as well? On a deeper level I can agree with the idea of that happening but, this goes in to a higher spiritual conversation that could be had in another thread. (Perhaps I will make one)

For now, what can we do to make our entitlement system function better?



Dear Sagittarian69,

Sorry if I got off on a higher discussion. I don't know how to address your question apart from it. In order to address wrong, we must determine what is right. I am more concerned with feeding those who should be fed than worrying about who doesn't deserve to eat. What is more important, making sure that everyone who should eat is fed or that making sure that everyone who should not be eat starves. I am willing to pay to feed others and be wrong, leave it up to God if you will, then have anyone starve. I have been willing to eat and not be able to get a job, nope I never received unemployment or welfare. I feed as many as I can and am thankful everyday that I can; but, if the day comes when I cannot, I will happily be fed by others and be thankful. Peace.




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