Terence Mckenna - Analysis of a world without Christianity

reply to post by Zagari


What happened to the Mayan religion?
Religion dominated every single aspect of Mayan's lives - it was the very essence of being Maya in the same way most American religions are.

Are we expected to believe they simply gave up religion in a matter of a couple of hundred years or so?

Why not imagine a world without Islam?
Or better still, a world without Judaism because by extension neither Christianity or Islam would exist.
No Christian take over of The Roman Empire.
No Crusades.
No Caliphate.

Hmmm....only the older religions.

Would Druidism and all the European religions be practiced and how would Europe have developed.
And just think how Jews have contributed to the technological, medical etc advancements.

The possibilities are endless.

This is how their geography would appear:

- There would be a sort of Roman Empire still standing, but would be likely called Roman Union and be democratic and it would be divided in 3 territories, one in Europe and this would be huge, with the following countries included : Spain, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Egypt, the area of Jerusalem, a bit of North Africa, East Europe, a piece of Arabia, Syria and Turkey, Iceland, Macedonia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, and Serbia.
The languages spoken in this area would be Latin ( that would become Italian ) and Greek, but probably some of the languages would remain, like English, Spanish, French.

- Than the second territory of the Roman Union would have been the current United States, and would be called Mississippian Roman Union. In cooperation with the Mississippian mound builders native indians.


- The third territory would have been Oceania, so Australia, New Zealand, in cooperation with Aborigens.

- Canada would be of the Vikings ( that would have become the Norsics ) and the Inuits and Esquimo.

- Than there would be the Greco- Mayan part of the world, that would comprehend Guatemala, Yucatan, Mexico entirely, and Greeks would have been going in South America.

- China would have been as much powerful as the current United States, and there is another huge area that would have been the place of Mongols, because nobody would have stopped the Mongols from conquering the entire Asia and Russia, they would have started their empire with a technological level of our 1975.

- So, there is the Mongolian territory, that goes in all Russia, Siberia, Tibet, Koreas and practically all Asia apart from China.
They would have won against Baghdad

This is what would have happened in the technological level of our 1000 to 2050:

1000s tech level - Japan allies with China, Roma 1000 years of existance, Rome wins Persians, Costantino period, Costantinople ( Istanbul ) founded.

1100s tech level - Rome wins the Barbars and the Empire is still standing, than the destruction of Alexandria's library

1300s tech level - Instead of the Black Death, there is the Justinian Plague from 540 to 590, and than this would be the century when Islam begins

1400s tech level - All about Islam and the revolution of Japan

1500s tech level - foundation of Baghdad, the Arabs win China, Islam golden age

1600s tech level - Medieval warm period, Toltecs in Mexico, Viking age

1700s tech level - Islandics in Greenland, France is founded, there is the year 1.000, and than Vikings explore Canada

1900s tech level - Saladino conquers Damascus ( 1943 tech level ), Barbarossa ( 1945- 1959 tech level ), the age of Samurai in Japan ( 1954 tech level ), Buddhism Zen in Japan and China, than Gengis Khan of the Mongols start the empire and than the Spanish versus the Islam

2010s tech level - Mongols triumph and big empire ( 2010 tech level ), they invade the Orient, and than the Turkey related events

2020s tech level - Mongols destroy Baghdad ( 2027 tech level ), than the Orient fights agains the Mongols and wins ( 2029 tech level )

2040s tech level - the time of Dante

2050s tech level - Japan wins against the Mongols ( 2050 tech level )

They would have hit our 2006 oil plateau in 1237 and they would have a global economic crash in 1238. China would have been a science super power by 1244, and 1246 to 1250 would have been a period of economic depression, in China too.

France would have been the leader of Fusion power by 1250, in 1251 there would have been austerity in Europe and a Panafrican currency, and a world energy crisis.
In 1259 Britain would have the most inhabitants in Europe, and in 1261 India would have been the most populous country in the world. Resources wars would have started by that year.
Europe would have been mostly Muslim or Jewish.
Peak Oil would have occurred in 1266, and Britain would have been more powerful by the 1260s because Spain, Italy and Turkey would have been in serious trouble.
By 1282 almost every country would have been democratic. By 1281, India, Japan, Russia and Brazil would have been super powers, and Britain and Spain maybe Islamic countries.
Canada would have been more powerful by 1291, again a year when a world war could have occurred.
By 1374 there would have been no crime.
By 1404 China would have domined the space travel issues and projects.

reply to post by Freeborn


Mckenna said the Soliton of Improbability occurred only concerning the career of Christ, so Islam would have had possibility of being started, and all the other religions started before Jesus.

reply to post by Zagari


Yeah, I understand that....there would never be the confrontation between Christianity and Islam.....imagine the difference to world events that would have.

Imagine if Jesus wasn't crucified and went on to unify the Israeli people and maybe even defeat Rome.
How different would history be then.

Or imagine for one minute that it wasn't the cruxifiction of Christ that was the defining moment but rather any one of a multitude of events.
The reality of the multi-verse really opens up.
The possibilities are truly endless.

Agree or disagree Mckenna had an amazing ability to think and articulate. He was an incredibly quick-witted and opened minded individual, he explored. I see him as a pioneer in alternative thought.

He is a true inspiration to me,

In all honesty i have had similar experiences to him while under the influence.
I'm not ashamed and neither was he. My consciousness is my own, as long as i harm no other soul or creature, it is no one else's right, to tell me what to do with my own consciousness.

He explored avenues and concepts most people would simply dismiss, not even think about or contemplate. He tried to look outside the box and i will always respect that

Today I dreamt that me and a girl ( who is born almost my same day, in March ) were writing the " history " on the same book, and she was unaware.
Than she found out and we discussed it: she said " You don't know the real history. Look at mine and look at yours, I know better ".
I replied " We better cooperate, since we are going to show the same history soon. There will be a " prova " ( the word was italian for test ), there will be a test soon and we will bring " one " history ".

Given what Mckenna said about the possibility that they monitor and influence our dreams, what if this was a sort of communication of some sort of thing?
I went to bed tonight, thinking " I would like to get a proof of what Mckenna said. I would like to receive such a message ".
And than this dream happened.
??? Will we ever know?

I add that they most likely would use to calculate their years since the foundation of Rome, so that they would be in year 2765 in our year 2011.
Also, they most likely never developed Italian language, since Dante was born in a too advanced age in their world, or maybe, they possibly did.

Very interesting post OP and yeah, I imagine an alternate Earth without Christianity would be amazing and so advanced.

Thanks for posting, I'm gonna ponder this now.

Well I can't say that I take what McKenna said as truth, but I certainly believe that he is very accurate in many of his assumptions as to the state of the world minus Christianity. I don't think that anyone with half a brain would argue with the point that Europe would have advanced by leaps and bounds without the anchor or Christianity holding it down. I would also be willing to bet anyone that without Christianity medieval times would not be referred to this day as the "Dark Ages"

Originally posted by Majiq
Well I can't say that I take what McKenna said as truth, but I certainly believe that he is very accurate in many of his assumptions as to the state of the world minus Christianity. I don't think that anyone with half a brain would argue with the point that Europe would have advanced by leaps and bounds without the anchor or Christianity holding it down. I would also be willing to bet anyone that without Christianity medieval times would not be referred to this day as the "Dark Ages"

Again this is crazy talk, technology did advance this time period in Europe. The problem with the medieval period wasn't Christianity but rather Europe being divided into small fragmented poor constantly warring tribes and kingdoms which eventually stabilized out. By the late medieval period Europe was full of early machines that the Roman didn't have.

If things were so bad as you make it out to be, there would of never been an Enlightenment and the explosion of technology and thinking should of occurred in China or at the height of the Islamic empire instead of Christian dominated Europe that went far beyond what it took from others and created the early modern period.

reply to post by Koffee


That is not crazy talk that is simple fact. The stagnating effect that the church had on many aspects of science from astrology to medicine is well documented. I never said that there were no inventions during the time, and progress in the fields of metallurgy and the like was noted, and sometimes even helped along by the church. Anything that went against the church's views however was forbidden. That isn't crazy that is truth. It wasn't until after about 1500 or so when the church stated losing its iron grip on the west that advances in fields of science opposing the churches view began to make advancements.

Originally posted by Majiq
reply to post by Koffee

 

That is not crazy talk that is simple fact. The stagnating effect that the church had on many aspects of science from astrology to medicine is well documented. I never said that there were no inventions during the time, and progress in the fields of metallurgy and the like was noted, and sometimes even helped along by the church. Anything that went against the church's views however was forbidden. That isn't crazy that is truth. It wasn't until after about 1500 or so when the church stated losing its iron grip on the west that advances in fields of science opposing the churches view began to make advancements.

The main thing that belies your point is the fact that the other civilizations that were far more wealthier and advance than Europe during the period in which Europe was suffering from intense political chaos, didn't move forward towards anything comparing to the Renaissance as a comparative baseline.

Then you get things like the medieval bans on stuff like Crossbows which didn't stick. Obviously the Church couldn't keep practical things banned, unlike say Japan before the Meiji Restoration. But what I am saying is your arguing a counter factual to history that doesn't have any proof in any other of the societies out there, unless one wanted to argue it could only be Europeans to achieve the enlightenment which I don't think is what anybody is saying.

Plus even if we were to accept your statements on the whole, you still run into the major problem of the fact that 1500s till about around late 19th and early twentieth century, Christianity was particularly strong an influence in culture and life in Europe and yet technology continued to progress.

Anyway I think I said my piece as I get the feeling I am repeating myself, and now going to bow out of this thread and let anybody who disagrees with me to have the last word.

Methinks , maybe mr Mckenna was bothered one too many times by christian missionaries , hmm.

Now , while christianity has done some awful , backstepping of knowledge by burning books and suppressing technology and knowledge , something that a now atheist group of people are now doing vis a vis the illuminati , as stated before most of the technological advances of todays world till now , starting from the Renaissance to the 1800s came from christian Europe. Not to downplay the contributions other cultures made , but if the pagan religions were so much better why were they supplanted and outdone by christianity even in it's corrupt form (catholicism/or protestantism ,take a pick). If china or the mayan civilizations for that matter were keeping on their path of development why didn't they become the harbinger for this stellar civilization Mckenna describes. A country where the populace has always , ALWAYS been brutally suppressed since the days of Emperor Qin Shi Huang (A tyrant and megalomaniac that would put Hitler to shame) even to this day china is still a mostly suppressed country. The Maya , though a very venerable and highly respected culture by me , still practiced human sacrifice , child sacrifice etc. They had a very good system of mathematics and astronomy I will give them that , but any fool could see that the mayan preisthood had room to abuse it's power and suppress knowledge as well.

Now imagine a christianless Rome , Mafia Rome where the society has no concept of sin thus no moral restrictions(Cosa Nostra x10) , pagan gods like zeus , Athena , Mars are still worshipped and only money and power brought justice. Mix it with totalitarian China and human sacrificing Mayans , with a corrupt priesthood that fed off the ignorance of the masses (as usual with all religions). I present you The New World Order 1000 years ago.

Question why is it that the western mind always zeros into the christian religion as the one to slander and debase. It was the religion of their ancestors it made them forgive their enemies and another time it put passion in the bosom of their ancestors who fought against the Jihads , the mongol hoards etc. Romans were awed by the christian martyrs they would brutally execute. Pregnant women (Perpetua and Felicity) , babes and young children , old men and women , even strong men (generals and senators) would face their death either by gladiator or by beast , with a grace no other religion could give.

It is understandable that most may not be aware that most other religions on earth have had damaging effects on their societies , as any earth based institution run by men/women so often do. They may not have even have taken the time to study in depth other religions or the christian religion for that matter. All religions have created tyrants and monsters , it may not be the dogma of the religion (sometimes it is but rarely) but the disease of psychopathy that corrupts religion. To single out christianity is an error. And Mr.Mckenna never said this was a fact this was all an idea he had , a drifting of a meditating mind , who knows what he was tripping on.