I have a piece of the rock

Originally posted by charlyv
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

It is not a meterorite for as much as everyone is led to believe, very very few meterorites are metallic on the inside and the texture on the outside is wrong.

That is absolutely not true, it is the other way around. Most meteorites ARE magnetic, and only the rarest do not stick to a magnet. I am an avid collector and have hundreds of them, I ought to know.
While this is probably not a meteorite, and he claims to have sent it to Steve Arnold (still not convinced, since even Steve would never just say it wasn't because it was non-magnetic.) it's characteristics, especially on the outside are as close as you get.

edit on 7-12-2011 by charlyv because: (no reason given)

Maybe you're right, meterorites are definitely not my areas of expertise, and they obviously are yours. The few I have which seem to be common where I've collected them (Australia) do not have a noticeable magnetic component but I have not tested them precision intruments. But the ones I have seen (and acquired) have a far more 'bubbley' texture similar to basalt, and the pictures copperhead posted do not seem to have this. I've just done a little research now and found those that are magnetic have an iron-nickel component to them. I guess mine lack that. Mine all look like bubbley little dog turds. I completely stand corrected and thank you for teaching a little more Hematite and iron ores are my only area of expertise these days which is why I'm postive it is not hematite.

This being said internet rock 'diagnosis' are always kinda tricky, and I would trust the dept. of mines assessment more than anything else as they're the only ones who have seen it in person. This and the area she found it in make this relatively straightforward.

I will also say however that the granular texture shown on the metallic core is definitely not something I'd expect to see in a meteorite, and it on that picture alone i would discount the meteor theory. For meteorites should either have a crystalline structure or if you are lucky enough to find one with a metallic core then these grains should have fused together into one homogenous lump due to heat on entry into the atmosphere.

Also having 2 tons worth of meteorite would indeed be a lucky find.

Really neat thread...Starred an flagged.!!!

Originally posted by charlyv

edit: I am an IMCA member, and I am going to forward this to the group and see if any of them want to chime in on what they think, by appearance. I will post what any say, if they care to contribute.

edit on 7-12-2011 by charlyv because: Added input

While I'm sure the IMCA is full of experts in meterorites, make sure their findings are cross-examined with someone who has knowledge of the far more likely scenario of silver-zinc-copper deposits in the kansas colorado region.

As has just been shown people who are experts in one field tend often not to know much about others, and therefore are far more likely to atribute it to knowledge they do possess than discount it as knowledge they don't possess.

My opinions are based on the location it was found (which is known for these type of depoits), the granular nature of the core, the crystal shape (tetrahedral) the black outer crust which lacks many characteristics I've seen in meteors and is common in silver deposits, the streak and the specific gravity. And keep in mind the amount of material - 2 tons. Also if it is magnetic it is weakly magnetic at best.

reply to post by Caver78

Thank you!!
Hubby is going to try cutting the rock with a sawall with a hack saw blade in it tomorrow. Then polish the slice with a fine grinding wheel IF he can make a slice.
He corrected me on the torch statement. It does not evaporate but melts and turns into a black substance like the out crust but volume in reduced at least 50%. It also becomes crumbly. It doesn't retain its origional shape but becomes like molten steel.
Hope this makes identification easier and not confuse.

Originally posted by copperhead12
reply to post by Caver78

 

Thank you!!
Hubby is going to try cutting the rock with a sawall with a hack saw blade in it tomorrow. Then polish the slice with a fine grinding wheel IF he can make a slice.
He corrected me on the torch statement. It does not evaporate but melts and turns into a black substance like the out crust but volume in reduced at least 50%. It also becomes crumbly. It doesn't retain its origional shape but becomes like molten steel.
Hope this makes identification easier and not confuse.

Silver has a lower melting point (1760 degrees F) than nickel (2647 degrees F) or iron/steel (2797 degrees F). Copper melts at 1983 degrees F. A blow torch can reach temperatures of 3623 degrees F so it should be able to melt them all eventually.

Try getting him to melt something you know to be iron or steal and then compare that to how easily your rock melts. If your rock melts much more easily then it most likely is mainly silver. Silver oxide is black but I'm guessing the color is actually due to impurities in the ore as molten silver should be silver in color. The crumbly texture will be the other minerals present with a higher melting point. The reduction in volume will be the loss of natural pore space within the rock and the burning off of organic impurities.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


He says thanks for the figures. I picked this stuff in 1991 and have been stressing about it since I found that the inside was silver colored.
We will check this out tomorrow and post it then. Maybe with pictures if I can manage and remember how to upload.LOL Thanks again for everyone's help. I am still confused about it but I feel we are talking to experts in many areas and it is a great help.
AND NO ONE HAS DISAPEARED YET!!!!

i have a piece of the roc

i have a piece of the roc

How easy, or hard was it to cut?

These pics are husbands attempt to "slice" the rock. First one is with the sawsall with metal hacksaw blade. Did make a small scratch. Next with grinding wheel made progress but no slice. Finally shiny after buffing wheel. and Last is the nick made in the rock with all three tools.
I know the gloves are ugly and the pics may be shakey but it is COLD out there.
Nothing much happened but I promised pics and found that I can still load them.

reply to post by webpirate


Not easy the last pic with the notch is all they could manage using three different tools.

Sorry for shaky double post. But I am learning---slowly.

Seemed to smell of ozone.

I was looking at this "rock" and it looks to be just one element. Could the crust just be heavy oxidation? Any black streaks appear only on prior cracks and fissures. to Little wolf-- silver/copper/lead would show copper color and also black or what ever color lead ore is, right?
To charleyv-I looked up meteorites and they seem to never be silver colored. Am I right?
By the way, the old man who hid these rocks had a old black cast iron pot in his back yard. It was full of black sand looking stuff. His son said it was something his dad played around with but would never tell him what. All the old man would say was that he was makin' moonshine out of corn cobs.
No one was allowed inside his home and I got one quick look through the back door. Reminded me of "Hoarders"I know there were mason jars full of gold and silver spots he had dug off old electronics in the garage. And the garage was full of sealed boxes.
Come to think of it I haven't seen his son since he sold his dad's house!!

Okay, I am tired of writing to myself. I know one of you is still here but have the rest of you dissapeared?

Originally posted by copperhead12
I was looking at this "rock" and it looks to be just one element. Could the crust just be heavy oxidation? Any black streaks appear only on prior cracks and fissures. to Little wolf-- silver/copper/lead would show copper color and also black or what ever color lead ore is, right?
To charleyv-I looked up meteorites and they seem to never be silver colored. Am I right?
By the way, the old man who hid these rocks had a old black cast iron pot in his back yard. It was full of black sand looking stuff. His son said it was something his dad played around with but would never tell him what. All the old man would say was that he was makin' moonshine out of corn cobs.
No one was allowed inside his home and I got one quick look through the back door. Reminded me of "Hoarders"I know there were mason jars full of gold and silver spots he had dug off old electronics in the garage. And the garage was full of sealed boxes.
Come to think of it I haven't seen his son since he sold his dad's house!!

You are right the crust would be heavy oxidation. The reason it appears as just one element is because everything is all mixed together, and copper and lead, both being metallic silver would be fairly indistinguisable from one another, at least on interent pictures. In your photo's at the top of page 3 I saw some yellowish bits with some rainbow/oily colored irredesence. This would be the copper. It is unlikely you'd get pure nuggets of copper. Instead it would be swirled through in little patches contained within a mineral called (I'm guessing from the rainbow yellow irredescence) chalcopyrite, which is similar to pyrite (fools gold) but a little prettier.

I completely misread your original post (OP) and thought I saw zinc when in actual fact you wrote lead. Don't ask me why I saw this but all I can say is that I was operating on 2 straight nights of 4 and 5 hours sleep respectively. You must have wondered why on Earth I was going on about zinc so much

But this does not change anything much of what I have said. The lead has a significantly lower melting point than even silver being only 622 degrees F so this would be the element that would melt first when your husband put the blow on it. Depending on how thoughrougly the elements are mixed would depend on how exactly everything melted.

Also understand that with all ores there will be all kinds of random things mixed in - probably zinc would be there in small amounts, some iron, sulfer silica, oxygen etc etc. And all these things would probably have higher melting points than the silver and the lead. These would be the crumbly bits left when your husband melted it. But do try and compare the melting of your rock to the melting of something iron or steel, and also crush a small bit of the silver bit up with a hammer and just confirm the streak is blackish grey not rusty red. This will rule out once and for all hematite. But yeah, I am sure that the mines dept. report is quite accurate and there really isn't a lot more I could add to it.

Also now I realise it's got some lead it I must caution you against touching it too much without gloves on, or breathing in any of the powder when your grinding it down. As I'm sure you know lead is a poison which slowly builds up in your body and can be absorbed through the skin. The mines department report doesn't seem to indicate there's too much of it so i would stress out or anything about what you've already done up to this point. But if you plan on handling it often then it's better to wear disposable gloves. Better to be safe than sorry. The rocks in your garden should be fine as the oxidation crust should contain most of it (although I would wash off any powder that may coat your hands from the crust), and try not to make a habit of handling it and then making lunch. Also watch your children don't touch the exposed silver part too much either. Like I said don't stress as lead is everywhere, it seems to be be in minor amounts and is quite likely well contained within the silver. But you want to be sure.....

EDIT:Meterorites can contain metalic looking stuff on the inside and this would be mainly nickel iron, I don't think this is very common, but charlev is the expert so I will differ to his knowledge in this case.

The black sandy looking stuff in the cauldrons may well be the crap left behind after he melted away the metal from within the rock.