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Cops shouldn't carry guns

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posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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The other day I went into a deli and ther was about 15 guys who looked like mormons just out of college. I later found out that this was a graduation class for a team of young police officers. These kids are the ones who America is letting point their guns at us. What makes a cop so special that he will always be able to search the public for someone that breaks one of the many rules in his society book and and be allowed to point a gun at someone for any individual who argues? A friend of mine just had a cop cheat on her when in a relationship with him, they are every day people and are not saints. It should be agreed that some have ego issues and are in need of power, their simple day job allows them to have power over the world, they are like small kings running around. Do you really think that just because society is hard to enforce is gives them a right to carry a gun and enforce rules on society that were made by men of a generation before them? In this current day all the people involved in the court system go home and do not think about their work that day, the court system is a living entity created by men of a different generation being held by a distinct group of men who have the say that is able to make all of the american military turn on their own people, it is not the people working in it.




posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by greyer
 


The UK has Police that dont carry guns.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by greyer
The other day I went into a deli and ther was about 15 guys who looked like mormons just out of college. I later found out that this was a graduation class for a team of young police officers. These kids are the ones who America is letting point their guns at us. What makes a cop so special that he will always be able to search the public for someone that breaks one of the many rules in his society book and and be allowed to point a gun at someone for any individual who argues? A friend of mine just had a cop cheat on her when in a relationship with him, they are every day people and are not saints. It should be agreed that some have ego issues and are in need of power, their simple day job allows them to have power over the world, they are like small kings running around. Do you really think that just because society is hard to enforce is gives them a right to carry a gun and enforce rules on society that were made by men of a generation before them? In this current day all the people involved in the court system go home and do not think about their work that day, the court system is a living entity created by men of a different generation being held by a distinct group of men who have the say that is able to make all of the american military turn on their own people, it is not the people working in it.


A 14-year-old kid selling crack on a street corner shouldn't have a gun either, but they do. In fact, there are a lot of people across the US who shouldn't have a gun, but they do.

If we take the guns out of the hands of our police, exactly how are they supposed to deal with an element that may or may not have an AK-47 tucked under their coat?

In order to take the guns out of the hands of the police, you'll have to kinda do away with the second amendment first.

Good luck with that.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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The police accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence.

The guns are unnecessary and a risk to the public.

Police are often poorly trained and rarely if ever are forced to draw their weapon. They often fail to react correctly under pressure. Often kill innocent people. One innocent killed by incompetent Police is too many.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by greyer
 


If you are referring to the US, can I ask how it is that every citizen is allowed to carry weapons based on their second amendment rights but you don't think trained (albeit young) police officers should not? There are plenty of officers who probably shouldn't have a weapon, but I'm sure there are plenty of citizens who shouldn't either.

I don't think anyone should have them but it is an all of nothing kind of scenario.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by theovermensch
The police accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence.

The guns are unnecessary and a risk to the public.

Police are often poorly trained and rarely if ever are forced to draw their weapon. They often fail to react correctly under pressure. Often kill innocent people. One innocent killed by incompetent Police is too many.



Rather broad strokes and grand allegations there, Mr. Theovermensch. Would you have a statistic or two to support your assertions that:
1. Police are accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence;
2. Police are often poorly trained;
3. Police rarely, if ever, are forced to draw their weapon;
4. Police often fail to react correctly under pressurre; and
5. Police often kill innocent people.

I'd really like to see your supporting objective evidence to bolster your claims.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Um a police officer without a gun is pretty much a sitting duck for criminals, disarming them has to be about the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sure there are plenty of bad apples among them but maybe if there were better control over who got to wear a badge this pointless discussion wouldn't even be taking place.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Cops arguing against their having/owning/carrying guns:


"If you lawfully have a gun in your home, that doesn't mean it can't ultimately become a threat," Hartman said. "If your home is burglarized and the gun is stolen, then that gun floats from one criminal activity to another throughout the community. That's why it's important that we accept these guns from anyone, no questions asked."
link

Stats indicating police are many times more prone to violence, self-medication, and emotional instability than non-cops:

Domestic violence is 2 to 4 times more common in police families than in the general population. In two separate studies, 40% of police officers self-report that they have used violence against their domestic partners within the last year. In the general population, it's estimated that domestic violence occurs in about 10% of families.
www.purpleberets.org...


Research has revealed a strong connection between occupational stress and alcohol and drug abuse, but also a strong sub-cultural more among police officers that encourages drinking both for social and stress-reduction purposes. Alcohol consumption among police officers is also correlated with officer suicides and domestic violence, and many departments are beginning to recognize the liability in allowing this problem to go untreated.
milestonegroupnj.com...


Police mortality studies have demonstrated that officers are afflicted with stress-related disease at a higher rate than the general population.
www.jimstonjournal.com...

The joke is that we elevate them above everyone else while the punchline is that they're ticking time-bombs comparatively far more broken and sick than everyone else.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Cops arguing against their having/owning/carrying guns:


"If you lawfully have a gun in your home, that doesn't mean it can't ultimately become a threat," Hartman said. "If your home is burglarized and the gun is stolen, then that gun floats from one criminal activity to another throughout the community. That's why it's important that we accept these guns from anyone, no questions asked."
link

Stats indicating police are many times more prone to violence, self-medication, and emotional instability than non-cops:

Domestic violence is 2 to 4 times more common in police families than in the general population. In two separate studies, 40% of police officers self-report that they have used violence against their domestic partners within the last year. In the general population, it's estimated that domestic violence occurs in about 10% of families.
www.purpleberets.org...


Research has revealed a strong connection between occupational stress and alcohol and drug abuse, but also a strong sub-cultural more among police officers that encourages drinking both for social and stress-reduction purposes. Alcohol consumption among police officers is also correlated with officer suicides and domestic violence, and many departments are beginning to recognize the liability in allowing this problem to go untreated.
milestonegroupnj.com...


Police mortality studies have demonstrated that officers are afflicted with stress-related disease at a higher rate than the general population.
www.jimstonjournal.com...

The joke is that we elevate them above everyone else while the punchline is that they're ticking time-bombs comparatively far more broken and sick than everyone else.


BOOYAH!


who could argue with those facts?
edit on 6-12-2011 by theovermensch because: whoops. typo



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Those statments merely state that police officers are more prone to stress, domestic violence and substance abuse. I can understand how that would be cause for concern. What leads them to the stress, domestic violence, substance abuse and the like. Is it because they carry a sidearm, or maybe it is because they're alergic to the colour of their uniform. Maybe it's just that the eat all the wrong things. Who the hell knows.

Certainly couldn't be due to the fact they deal with the crappiest side of life most of the time, often put themselves in harms' way in the line of duty and generally run on the fringe of society in general.

Yes, maybe those who have 'issues' may need some sort of help but I don't think that taking away from all police the tools necessary to do the job is the answer.

But I still don't see anything that supports your statements that:
1. Police are accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence;
2. Police are often poorly trained;
3. Police rarely, if ever, are forced to draw their weapon;
4. Police often fail to react correctly under pressurre; and
5. Police often kill innocent people.

I'm not an advocate for police, nor am I a big 'gun guy' but I do think that an argument has to be based on something other than neener neener, you're a weener.

Reading between the lines, it would appear that there is a hidden agenda in your posts . . . just sayin'.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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In every system there will be corruption - and this certainly does not exclude our legal enforcement system. This corruption can overshadow the majority of the good things a particular orginization can provide; especially with the media bombarding the public with negativity twenty-four hours a day.

The OP made a reference to the age of these police men....

The age of an individual does not determine the maturity that individual has regarding firearms and weapons. I have met twelve year olds who treat firearms with great respect, and fully understand they are not a toy. Whereas on the other hand I have met fourty year olds who beleive a gun is a cute trinket to play around with - and I've even known a few of them who has killed theirselves by thinking guns were a toy.

To strip law enforcement of their weapons of self defense, ie. firearms, would be allowing Pandora's Box to be opened - in a figuritive since.

Every evil person, or corrupt person will find a way to get fire arms.

In the UK when a corrupt person gets weapons, all hell breaks loose - and the response time to said situation is bad.

Where as in the United States of America (I am assuming that is the origional location referenced) response time is greatly amplified, in regards to our overseas neighbours.

But I digress.

My main point is that all the shady, and dark characters will find a way to get weapons - allowing them to prey on the innocent more easily; thus allowing organized crime, murder, rape, molestation, stealing, etc. to skyrocket.

The liberal mindset will destroy this country - even worse than it already has.

Do not give in to the media, and fearmongers. There are good cops out there. I am great friends with two of them, and would trust them with my life.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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sorry I disagree with you.
they Need to have them. but!
they should use the Gun Last of all.
the point of a Tazer, is you can stop some one with a gun and NOT kill them.
cops need to be retrained to Not use the gun.
they need to train to be nice to.
whatever the bad guy does.

Then police will get A LOT of respect from Ever one.
people would help them more.
and not think it non of my business.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by GoalPoster

Originally posted by theovermensch
The police accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence.

The guns are unnecessary and a risk to the public.

Police are often poorly trained and rarely if ever are forced to draw their weapon. They often fail to react correctly under pressure. Often kill innocent people. One innocent killed by incompetent Police is too many.



Rather broad strokes and grand allegations there, Mr. Theovermensch. Would you have a statistic or two to support your assertions that:
1. Police are accidently murder many people every year due to Police incompetence;
2. Police are often poorly trained;
3. Police rarely, if ever, are forced to draw their weapon;
4. Police often fail to react correctly under pressurre; and
5. Police often kill innocent people.

I'd really like to see your supporting objective evidence to bolster your claims.


I think you could use the same points 1-5 and just say people instead of police



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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I am realizing now that what I said is such a general rant trying to make sense of the world in general terms, so yes this is open up to every arguement.



Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by greyer
 


The UK has Police that dont carry guns.


I have walked down the streets of the UK, I never did feel threated by cops there. I never felt that a cop would walk up to me and wrongly accuse me up something, just to get his hand in my pockets. I have been badly treadted by cops all my life. I was thankful they didn't seem so bad up there, it showed me about what a cop should really be.


Originally posted by Helig
Um a police officer without a gun is pretty much a sitting duck for criminals, disarming them has to be about the dumbest idea I've heard yet. Sure there are plenty of bad apples among them but maybe if there were better control over who got to wear a badge this pointless discussion wouldn't even be taking place.


I disagree. They have strength in their computer communications and electronic networks, strength in intelligence and numbers will easily beat a criminal, I never said that a cop shouldn't have a gun in his car but my overall point is that I do not agree with cops pointing guns at people, something just uncle Sam lets them do.


Originally posted by buddha
sorry I disagree with you.
they Need to have them. but!
they should use the Gun Last of all.
the point of a Tazer, is you can stop some one with a gun and NOT kill them.
cops need to be retrained to Not use the gun.
they need to train to be nice to.
whatever the bad guy does.

Then police will get A LOT of respect from Ever one.
people would help them more.
and not think it non of my business.


You should smell the coffee of the real world, it is highly disturbing to see how many innocent people were harmed since those tasers came out, and that is just on youtube I could oly imagine how much bs has arisen because of it.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Then they might need to rely on their intelligence and judgement to get out of a bad situation.

Don't like that option either. It's unfortunate that cops appear to have more bullets then intelligence, and more attitude then sound judgement.

Really though, as statistics have shown, the way to make an environment safer, is to allow all citizens to carry guns. Isn't it just amazing how violence levels diminish when criminals fear every potential target might have a .45 tucked away.


It was tougher in the wild west for a sheriff to abuse his authority, when every other man in the town was a gun slinger.
edit on 6-12-2011 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by greyer
I disagree. They have strength in their computer communications and electronic networks, strength in intelligence and numbers will easily beat a criminal, I never said that a cop shouldn't have a gun in his car but my overall point is that I do not agree with cops pointing guns at people, something just uncle Sam lets them do.


Those electronics are a poor replacement for a weapon, they won't stop someone from caving your skull in, knifing you, or putting a bullet through your head. Even a handful of officers won't stop a criminal from their actions if they know that those officers have next to no way to mach force against an armed attacker.

Lets suppose for an instant that police had their guns all locked in their cars, what then will stop me from walking up to a cop, beating him with a metal pipe till he is nearly dead and strolling away like nothing ever happened? Will the fancy computer in his car stop me? Will the radio on his hip stop me? Will his dozen buddies spread across their jurisdiction stop me then and there? No, none of those will. Know what stops that from happening every day? The fact that police carry a loaded service weapon on their hip is what keeps the scum in check.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Helig

Originally posted by greyer
I disagree. They have strength in their computer communications and electronic networks, strength in intelligence and numbers will easily beat a criminal, I never said that a cop shouldn't have a gun in his car but my overall point is that I do not agree with cops pointing guns at people, something just uncle Sam lets them do.


Those electronics are a poor replacement for a weapon, they won't stop someone from caving your skull in, knifing you, or putting a bullet through your head. Even a handful of officers won't stop a criminal from their actions if they know that those officers have next to no way to mach force against an armed attacker.

Lets suppose for an instant that police had their guns all locked in their cars, what then will stop me from walking up to a cop, beating him with a metal pipe till he is nearly dead and strolling away like nothing ever happened? Will the fancy computer in his car stop me? Will the radio on his hip stop me? Will his dozen buddies spread across their jurisdiction stop me then and there? No, none of those will. Know what stops that from happening every day? The fact that police carry a loaded service weapon on their hip is what keeps the scum in check.


You're taking it way out of context, so far out of context that you are sitting alone in an igloo all the way on the south pole. You obviously feel the need for these kids to carry a gun, screw that...



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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If you ever lived in Los Angeles we have thousands of gang members all armed, can you please tell me whos gonna stop these guys from conducting home invasions, robbing me at broad daylight and overall making society a living # hell? Theres a reason criminals try to get away as fast as possible when the police are called not because they repersent the law but because they are ARMED.
I believe you have a hatred for the police force because you have a rebelious personality.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by strictdiscipline
 





I believe you have a hatred for the police force because you have a rebelious personality.


I think generally people that hate the police have had a bad experience. I also think that's usually their own damn fault.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by buddha
sorry I disagree with you.
they Need to have them. but!
they should use the Gun Last of all.
the point of a Tazer, is you can stop some one with a gun and NOT kill them.
cops need to be retrained to Not use the gun.
they need to train to be nice to.
whatever the bad guy does.

Then police will get A LOT of respect from Ever one.
people would help them more.
and not think it non of my business.


I actually have a 180° degree point of view on the tazer subject. I maintain (without any links or facts to back me up, in true ATS spirit! ;D ) that since tazers have been introduced officers are less empathetic to suspects, that tazing has conditioned police to apply pain to gain compliance. Many videos we see show police respond immediately to verbal resistance with "enhanced compliance techniques."
The tazer makes an officer MORE likely to elevate the force in a situation because the pattern of the interaction has changed. Instead of talking down and problem solving police demand compliance, if no compliance, tazer. If that goes wrong, reach for the other hip.




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