justification for manned space program?, page 4

reply to post by Illustronic

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The sound barrier was broken, 1947 to be exact, and that is exactly 50 years after the first powered heavier than air flight. But to put that in perspective that is only a 700 mph difference.

Since Apollo exceeded 25,000 mph (about 40 years later), what would be a comparable advancement curve one should have expected now 40-some years after that?

Well, just like advances in aviation are not only about flight speed increase, advances in spaceflight must not be only about orbital speed increase.

reply to post by Maslo

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We can do all that. Hydroponics for food, crater water for oxygen and propellant, etc. But as for BASIC parts, you may be surprised at what NASA does next.

If NASA sends a 3D printer that could use processed regolith as the medium it could speed things up considerably. You can make anything out of metal or plastic with these guys.

So what if we used a small 3D printer to make parts for a larger 3D printer which in turn makes parts for a larger 3D printer, and so on. Pretty soon you've got a facility large enough to print out a spaceship and all the parts required. We wouldn't have to lift much from earth orbit that way. The trick will be processing the lunar regolith.

www.space.com...

reply to post by HossBog

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I doubt regolith can provide enough material variety for such advanced 3D printing, to assemble another 3D printer and so on... But processed lunar regolith is indeed a very promising resource, mainly as a structural and radiation / micrometeorite protection material.

reply to post by Maslo

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You don't think? NASA and Universe Today seem to think differently. Regolith contains minerals, metals and oxygen bearing materials. They may not be able to make ALL the parts, any material that doesn't have to be shipped from earth is a massive bonus. Google helps us think.

As NASA is working on plans to send humans back to the Moon in the next decade, researchers are working to learn the best ways to work with the lunar regolith. Future colonists could mine minerals and even oxygen out of the lunar soil. Since real lunar regolith is hard to come by, you can purchase lunar regolith simulant, made here on Earth.

www.universetoday.com...;

reply to post by cloudyday

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Yeah, I mean why the hell should we invest ANY money into going into space. I mean come on people, everyone knows Earth's resources are infinite even with a massively growing population. Plus everyone knows that massive asteroids, solar activity, and other cosmic phenomenon pose NO threat to us. It's not like colonizing other planets could EVER lead to the discovery of life and the expansion of human knowledge. So let's just drop the stupid useless space program.

Okay, sarcasm circuit off. I cannot sympathize, or even understand, the attitude the OP is espousing. It's entirely, well, alien to me. Oh my God, the OP is an alien.

reply to post by HossBog

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We can do all that. Hydroponics for food, crater water for oxygen and propellant, etc.

Where do you get the nutrients for the hydroponics? The Lunar Garden store?

If NASA sends a 3D printer that could use processed regolith as the medium it could speed things up considerably. You can make anything out of metal or plastic with these guys.

Even the metal items produced is of low strength. Some time’s you need steel. Some time’s you need copper. Some time’s you need case hardened. These printers cannot make anywhere near the quality and variety of parts needed for even the most basic products.

Plus did you ever notice that ore processing requires specific facilities for each type of finished material?
A steel plant doesn’t make copper wire. An aluminum plant doesn’t produce rolled steel. Also each process requires additional materials to add to the process. Steel needs iron, carbon, manganese, chromium, vanadium, tungsten. How do you produce those?

I'm sorry but our way of life only works on our planet.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by HossBog

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We can do all that. Hydroponics for food, crater water for oxygen and propellant, etc.

Where do you get the nutrients for the hydroponics? The Lunar Garden store?

If NASA sends a 3D printer that could use processed regolith as the medium it could speed things up considerably. You can make anything out of metal or plastic with these guys.

Even the metal items produced is of low strength. Some time’s you need steel. Some time’s you need copper. Some time’s you need case hardened. These printers cannot make anywhere near the quality and variety of parts needed for even the most basic products.

Plus did you ever notice that ore processing requires specific facilities for each type of finished material?
A steel plant doesn’t make copper wire. An aluminum plant doesn’t produce rolled steel. Also each process requires additional materials to add to the process. Steel needs iron, carbon, manganese, chromium, vanadium, tungsten. How do you produce those?

I'm sorry but our way of life only works on our planet.

The only use I can see for a 3D printer on ISS is if there is ever an emergency like Apollo 13. The 3D printer would be like a fancy roll of duct tape.

The cost of that SLS rocket is even higher than I realized. For $40 billion and 10 years of development NASA will have a rocket to take astronauts into orbit. Then NASA can spend even more money to send them somewhere like a near earth asteroid.

Or NASA can spend $8 billion and send a probe to Europa to look for life. Or NASA could return samples from Mars that might show signs of life.

During the joint Senate-NASA presentation in September 2011, it was stated that the SLS program has a projected development cost of $18 billion through 2017, with $10B for the SLS rocket, $6B for the Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle and $2B for upgrades to the launch pad and other facilities at Kennedy Space Center.[12] An unofficial NASA document estimates the cost of the program through 2025 will total at least $41B for four 70 metric ton launches (1 unmanned in 2017, 3 manned starting in 2021). The 130 metric ton version should not be ready earlier than 2030.

Space Launch System

reply to post by samkent

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Where do you get the nutrients for the hydroponics? The Lunar Garden store? If NASA sends a 3D printer that could use processed regolith as the medium it could speed things up considerably. You can make anything out of metal or plastic with these guys. Even the metal items produced is of low strength. Some time’s you need steel. Some time’s you need copper. Some time’s you need case hardened. These printers cannot make anywhere near the quality and variety of parts needed for even the most basic products. Plus did you ever notice that ore processing requires specific facilities for each type of finished material? A steel plant doesn’t make copper wire. An aluminum plant doesn’t produce rolled steel. Also each process requires additional materials to add to the process. Steel needs iron, carbon, manganese, chromium, vanadium, tungsten. How do you produce those?

Nutrients? Hint : It comes out of your bum.
For the other elements, the moon isn't just made out of regolith. There's plenty of other minerals in the rock as well.

Parts being l low strength? And 3D printing has been around only a short time, NASA are talking about improving the system.

Ore processing? You are quite right. That's why you have more than 1 ore processing plant for each type of ore required. Theres no solution in a shoebox.

Its better they start trying to figure out solutions than sit around whinging on the internet about it.

I won't contribute to this thread again.

reply to post by cloudyday

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SLS rocket is often looked down upon by advocates of manned spaceflight as a huge waste of money, too. We already have three rockets (Atlas V, Falcon and Delta) being chronically underused, with potential to make dozens of launches a year (hundreds of tons a year) and be upgraded to 50 tons capacity with only marginal cost increase. We dont need the jobs program that is SLS for manned space program.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by cloudyday

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SLS rocket is often looked down upon by advocates of manned spaceflight as a huge waste of money, too. We already have three rockets (Atlas V, Falcon and Delta) being chronically underused, with potential to make dozens of launches a year (hundreds of tons a year) and be upgraded to 50 tons capacity with only marginal cost increase. We dont need the jobs program that is SLS for manned space program.

edit on 10/12/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

That's what I think too. For better or for worse, NASA is going to launch manned missions. They need to keep the cost of the manned missions under control so they can aggressively look for life using unmanned missions. They should focus the manned missions on development of key technologies like closed-loop life support, human hibernation, VASIMR. All NASA's manned missions should be research. They don't need a giant rocket if they develop some of these technologies.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Illustronic

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Well, just like advances in aviation are not only about flight speed increase, advances in spaceflight must not be only about orbital speed increase.

I'm not sure what you are implying here. Rockets had to provide the propulsion to reach higher orbits and escape velocity, from earth around 25,038 mph. Unmanned space probes reached higher speeds using gravity assist from planets and the winner so far are the Helios solar space probes that used the gravity assist slingshot effect from the sun just inside the orbit of Mercury to exceed 150,000 mph. That speed record is expected to be surpassed by the JUNO space probe as it approaches Jupiter in a few years, but JUNO is going to fire its main thrusters soon from the orbital distance of Mars and head back to earth to get a slingshot from earth, amazingly by coming within 300 miles from the surface of earth for that final trajectory to Jupiter.

As far as manned speed records go I believe Apollo 10 achieved the fastest manned flight, in 1969. We have not progressed further than that some 42 years and counting.

reply to post by HossBog

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Most everything we make on Earth needs oil as part of the process or parts. So we will still need Big Rigs to ship oil to the Moon.

reply to post by PerfectPerception

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Total Sci-Fi, that doesn't belong in this forum.
Please exit.

reply to post by samkent

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There is graphite lubrication of frictional parts, been established over 50 years ago. No deep space probes have oil or any petroleum products on board since the 60's.

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by PerfectPerception

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Total Sci-Fi, that doesn't belong in this forum.
Please exit.

I will presume your post was sarcasm as mine before it was or you seriously need to get over yourself.
did you actually read what I posted? clearly it was a joke that went over your head.
you have no right to tell me to exit,how disrespectful.

Arrogance...such an ugly trait.

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