Do we really need the Police?

reply to post by jibajaba


"if cars are driven reckless and endangering - then the clan could go hunt the perp. "

I don't think people should get drunk and run around the streets abusing people, lets get "the clan" go and beat them up.

I think dog owners should pick up the crap, lets get "the clan" and go and beat them up.

I think this road should be a thirty not a sixty lets get "the clan" and go get some drivers then beat them up

Which is what would happen not the happy ever after story that seems to go with these things

reply to post by cosmicexplorer

Text Anyway...I do agree to some extent....also I think that the real criminals with extensive histories should be hammered much..much.. harder than one time offenders.

I think you are right on the money,and you would know better than the rest of us. Thanks for giving your opinion hey. And I didnt mean to offend you or anyone out there. I think its good to highball to start with I think we all agree that we need some basic police presence but it needs to decrease,not increase. It is way too heavy as it is and obvious overkill with low productivity the result. And like cosmicexplorer most cops are reasonable nice people with the same problems as the rest of us. It is not the person that is the issue. Its the position. And its worth debating the role of the police in society today and to look at it from different angles. That way we will find a more sensible middle ground. Thanks again for sharing hey. Cool to hear from a cop.

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by theovermensch

 

I have been a cop for more than 5 years...what I think we could do in all honesty is reduce the amount of cops and replace them with a sort of security guard. I would say 90% of the calls I take are really not high priority...a security guard can take a report for your missing garden gnome or do a civil standby because you broke up with your girlfriend...or that barking dog next door wont shut up. For the amount of money I make, training I have received, and experience I have I am wasting 90% of it on calls that really have no end result.

We would save money by reducing the police force and hiring part time/ lesser paid security guards and then leave the police for in progress calls/investigations/swat etc.

I have never had to call the police and the only interaction I have had with an officer before I became one was the occasional traffic stop. However, there is a need for them. I was ignorant to how evil people could be until I became a cop. Im gonna hop on my high horse for a minute now....if you are not a cop you probably have very little clue to how bad some areas can be and decayed certain parts of society are. I could go on for hours about the sociological issues with society, but unless youve seen it you probably wouldnt believe me. This job has made me afraid to have a child.

Anyway...I do agree to some extent....also I think that the real criminals with extensive histories should be hammered much..much.. harder than one time offenders.

edit on 7-12-2011 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)

The opinion of a Police Officer in case you missed it.

Because if he did there would be consequences. You dont talk about peoples mothers being raped. Especially in an antagonistc fashion. I would not appreciate it at all. I would communicate that in a non-verbal way. You dont talk about peoples mothers. You are taking it to another level. If you were not hiding behind your computer screen you would not be talking about my mother.

What? it's a perfectly valid point to make, I think your jumping to beating someone who mentions your mum way more out of line.

The opinion of a Police Officer in case you missed it.

LMAO the guy is pretty much disagreeing with you

For those who think we need police, let me tell ya a story.

I went to boarding school in a small village in southern France(Southern France Youth Institute, a small American school), that village had a few hundred people and just one store inside it. Live there for most of a year.

The ONLY police officer I ever saw there was this retired old drunkard guy that lived there. That retired police officer was probably the biggest actual nuisance in the town.

This town operated fine, without police.

Now, the people who lived in this town were not genetically superior, they were just a good community of people who operated without police.

I saw the same thing going on in rural parts of South Africa, but it didn't always work out so everywhere because of the extremely severe poverty and the desperation that brings, but there were a lot of places that had it together without police or government oversight even though the were struggling.

Anyway, what about justice?

While I was in France(I heard this from word of mouth a few days after it happened), a new guy who had moved in recently, said some very messed up and inappropriate things about touching young children.

The locals beat the crap out of the pedophile. The old ladies down the street who had guns said if they ever saw him walking down their street, the same one where they're grand kids play, they'd shoot him. He left town

Detectives are useful... But police patrolling are NOT. They should be there when they are called, not monitoring us. I believe that mentality of them looking after us breeds crime and rebellion, because people have it hardwired in their brains' not to be submissive. Just like when kids do the opposite of what their parents say just to mess with them, it's the same when the police treat us like kids.

Cops should not be sitting around watching us, but they are no better than the average citizen and they are not policed by anyone but themselves.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No exception for the police.

Originally posted by guitarist
I gotta agree they are useless and a burden on society. Nothing more then a gang of thugs.

colombine? crips v bluds? motorway pile ups? murders? drugs? child/woman traffiking? rape?

All after the fact.

They do nothing to stop it. maybe contribute to it.

Murder , Drugs, Rape, Robbery are part of their job description they commit these crimes day in day out and get away with it. and they are a rival gang.

Highway accidents , hum lets see , firemen and paramedics i would say, then insurance investigator, and a wrecker to tow away and clean up .Cops pretty much just block traffic and get in the way, yeah big help, not

child / trafficking

I've never needed their help, not sure what kind of help you'd get from a gang who's out to get you and see's you as the enemy.

Again if i ever needed help outside of defending myself and family (which i've always taken care of myself) i'd call a fireman or paramedic.

Cops should go the way of the Dodo bird and become extinct and vanish off the face of the earth.

*Sigh*

Your argument is hypocritical. Firefighters and paramedics also act after the fact.

How exactly do you think police stop someone going on a murderous rampage if that person has otherwise done nothing to suggest they are that way inclined? Grateful if you could answer that one.

If a police officer arrests a murderer - the murderer is then prevented from murdering again - at least for as long as they are incarcerated. Therefore, they prevent crime. Some crime, not all of it, but crime nonetheless.

Perhaps you live in a corrupt bubble. If you do, then thats sad. Indeed, some police murder / rape / rob. Some community leaders murder / rape / rob. Some white, working class guys murder / rape / rob. That doesnt mean they are reflective of that entire group of individuals.

So, hypocracy, baseless assumptions and generalisation on your part. I truly despair.

reply to post by aivlas


If I were samurai I would not think twice before removing your head and anyone that put the words 'rape' and 'your mother' in the same sentence. I should not have to live with any dishonour. I am not samurai but I think they are awesome.They were the true overmen

How about this? If you would like to disagree with me fine but I would like to ask that nobody brings up my mother again. I take great offense. I am not just words on a screen. Antagonizing me with imagery of my mother being raped is not ok.

Someone that spoke about my mother that way should expect to be beaten. The only reason they dont is because of the Police alot of you seem so fond of crying to.

reply to post by aivlas


Pretty much? You havent read the conversation. I gave my opinion and I am enjoying hearing others.

Hows about you stop talking about my mother??

We need a peace force,not a police force.
And all the goons in government can bugger off as well.

Cheers

reply to post by aivlas

Text I have been a cop for more than 5 years...what I think we could do in all honesty is reduce the amount of cops and replace them with a sort of security guard.

An actual cop saying you could reduce the amount of cops and replace them with security guards isnt adding to my argument?

Skimmed the thread and didn't notice a change in your views so I think going by your op where you come of as sounding like you think we don't need police is enough to go on. The policeman you quoted nice latching on to one small part of his post when the main thing that comes from reading it is we do need policeman but with better management.

Also I put what I thought about this in an earlier post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Stop cherry picking parts of his post.


Replace mother with family member or are we not allowed to do that either.

Originally posted by aivlas
Skimmed the thread and didn't notice a change in your views so I think going by your op where you come of as sounding like you think we don't need police is enough to go on. The policeman you quoted nice latching on to one small part of his post when the main thing that comes from reading it is we do need policeman but with better management.

Also I put what I thought about this in an earlier post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 7-12-2011 by aivlas because: (no reason given)

Stop cherry picking parts of his post.

edit on 7-12-2011 by aivlas because: (no reason given)

Replace mother with family member or are we not allowed to do that either.

edit on 7-12-2011 by aivlas because: (no reason given)

ok fine.If you like lets keep talking about raping my mother.If you like my title of my next thread will be 'Lets talk about my mother being raped over and over,and why not throw the rest of the family in too.'

Text Complete anarchy wont work. I think its an interesting topic considering the whole 'war on terror'. We are losing more and more liberty all the time. There is a happy medium somewhere.

Thats what I said on page 5. Pretty similar points of view if you ask me. Hardly conflicting are they?

reply to post by ComeFindMe


I live in NYC and yes it is corrupt to the core.

There is more to fear from a cop then a criminal in NYC.

You must live in fantasy Land. Lolly Pops and fairies how nice for you.

Welcome to the real world not the Happy Little Bubble you live in.

And by the way i have and had cops in my family. and still think they are useless, I'd never ask for their help if you'd call it that.

And Yes fireman and paramedics are after the fact and that's when they are needed and since there was no one there to help them during their ordeal (cops) again what are they good for

Where i live if there is gang violence the cops wait it out at the Dunkin' Donuts until all the smoke has cleared and laugh about it then go and check it out. Now that's sad no help to stop it while they can.

How do they stop a murder are they capable doubt it. way out of their skill range. and by the number of people by DNA testing that have been proven not to have done a crime or murder, that the police took into custody, just shows how the police dropped the ball and were to lazy to do a job they were paid to do. it was more convenient to pin it on whomever and move on. 90% of cops couldn't investigate their way out of a paper bag.

Easy, Nope we'd be fine without them. When a cop actually helps me not 'harasses' me (which they commonly get switched up, I think you have to be dyslexic to be a cop) It'll be a cold day in hell.

Originally posted by CREAM
Cops should not be sitting around watching us, but they are no better than the average citizen and they are not policed by anyone but themselves.

Agreed. Why the hell can't I get paid and given super fancy sirens and an intimidating flashlight to give a ticket to every cop I've seen run a red light or harass me for silly unjust reasons?
I feel like we DO need police, but only when they're called. Not driving around pulling over everyone with a broken tail light, unbuckled seat belt, slightly tinted window.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
The average beat cop or detective isn't out there trying to bother people or spying on people. That isn't what they want to do. Plus they don't have time. A single DUI arrest takes an officer off of the street for about two to three hours before they even start the report. Writing a citation for a moving violation requires twenty minutes of report writing. An assault arrest takes two hours plus the report. If the officer had to use force to stop the assault it is about 80 minutes of report writing. Don't even get me started on how long it takes to actually process a drug bust. The average beat cop doesn't have time to go around needlessly messing with people. If they stop somebody they had a reasonable suspicion that they needed too. Spending an hour or two processing a person plus an hour writing a report - just to spend three hours sitting in court to watch it get thrown out - is not fun or productive.

You don't get any understanding to yourself and your perceptions by writing that post, and your post doesn't get any sympathy from me, because it seems like you are trying to defend a police officer for choosing that job. In my previous posts I have described what psychologically occurs in a persons life to make them want to be a cop, and you most likely a cop are telling me about time on the clock. All of those examples are pathetic because they shouldn't be taking the time of the day to empty citizens of America from their pockets for a moving violation in the street. The reason why I have decided not to think about doing that is because I haven't sold out to my species. I have no hate in me at all, somebody with no hate cannot be a cop because they would not empty a hard working individuals pockets for a moving violation.

Now I know that DUIs should always be stopped, but cops in my state give DUIs for having 1 beer. That is a depiction of satan to give a human a whole DUI for driving with one beer. It is actual hell, ignorance, and tradery to your own kind.

Originally posted by theovermensch
I dont "need" them at all and I never will. There have been occasions I could have sought Police assistance but I am not helpless. What can they do that I cannot? Look at the London riots when the Police failed to maintain prder and saftey,who came to the aid of the public? The public came to the aid of the public. We can look after ourselves, we dont need them.

Society would come apart at the seams without the police. Areas would be run by the local crime lords and gangs would rule the streets. The police are essential, no matter how much you dislike them, if you don't believe that taking the police off the streets tomorrow would cause utter havoc then you're not thinking this through. I agree some of the police are scum but most aren't.

Originally posted by guitarist
reply to post by ComeFindMe

 

I live in NYC and yes it is corrupt to the core.

There is more to fear from a cop then a criminal in NYC.

You must live in fantasy Land. Lolly Pops and fairies how nice for you.

Welcome to the real world not the Happy Little Bubble you live in.

And by the way i have and had cops in my family. and still think they are useless, I'd never ask for their help if you'd call it that.

And Yes fireman and paramedics are after the fact and that's when they are needed and since there was no one there to help them during their ordeal (cops) again what are they good for

Where i live if there is gang violence the cops wait it out at the Dunkin' Donuts until all the smoke has cleared and laugh about it then go and check it out. Now that's sad no help to stop it while they can.

How do they stop a murder

are they capable

doubt it. way out of their skill range. and by the number of people by DNA testing that have been proven not to have done a crime or murder, that the police took into custody, just shows how the police dropped the ball and were to lazy to do a job they were paid to do. it was more convenient to pin it on whomever and move on. 90% of cops couldn't investigate their way out of a paper bag.

I can't talk about NYC, as i've never been there, but I do find this acount somewhat hard to believe. In any case that is just an opinion.

Far from a happy bubble here - crime happens, period. I also know that many crimes are prevented by the police, by prompt arrest, trial and conviction of the guilty person.

You haven't really addressed the issue - if firemen and paramedics are exempt from criticism, why aren't the police? If i fall down some steps and break my leg, even if an ambulance is called straight away, the paramedic is not there during my ordeal - that doesn't mean they have failed does it! I'd appreciate comments a little more if the actually were consistent.

If the police took pre-emptive steps to prevent crime, people would be up in arms. Its an unwinnable situation, made worse by individuals who believe we would have a lala lovely land without law and order. Guess what? People suck - not all of them - but enough to make life a misery without the laws of the land.

People are failable beings - therefore, it stands to reason any system they creat is failable.

If individuals continue regurgitating anecdotal rhetoric instead of addressing points saliently raised (specifically, how could a police officer prevent a hitherto sane man going mad and attacking me with a knife) i'd be most grateful.

Firefighting and medicine transcend politics and are innantely humane in what they do and represent. There is no judgement, only compassion. Enforcing a set of rules as the police do instantly introduces the notion of opinion, difference and conflict. This is unavoidable both for the police and for any group arising as 'enforcers' (vigilantes or even individuals) through rough or natural justice, with or without a formal justice system.

Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by MikeNice81
The average beat cop or detective isn't out there trying to bother people or spying on people. That isn't what they want to do. Plus they don't have time. A single DUI arrest takes an officer off of the street for about two to three hours before they even start the report. Writing a citation for a moving violation requires twenty minutes of report writing. An assault arrest takes two hours plus the report. If the officer had to use force to stop the assault it is about 80 minutes of report writing. Don't even get me started on how long it takes to actually process a drug bust. The average beat cop doesn't have time to go around needlessly messing with people. If they stop somebody they had a reasonable suspicion that they needed too. Spending an hour or two processing a person plus an hour writing a report - just to spend three hours sitting in court to watch it get thrown out - is not fun or productive.

Now I know that DUIs should always be stopped, but cops in my state give DUIs for having 1 beer. That is a depiction of satan to give a human a whole DUI for driving with one beer. It is actual hell, ignorance, and tradery to your own kind.

edit on 7-12-2011 by greyer because: (no reason given)

Through all of time and humanity, you are indeed correct - hell hath no better representation than a DUI for one beer.

Simple solution - don't drink - then you can drive. Or drink, but don't drive. You can't pick and choose laws to follow and obey. So its your call. But just don't complain and call it "hell" when you get busted. Aren't you embarassed by that post?

Having cancer, losing a loved one, being harmed...nup....thats nothing on a DUI!

I'm sure it's been said but no we don't need the amount we have. It's good to have one or two for doughnut sales but anymore than that and you have a gang on your hands. A gang that traffics, uses and sells drugs while being paid for law enforcement, how nice that must be.

Most larger police forces are primarily focused on drug money and traffic ticket money, everything else gets put on the yeah right burner. They don't actually prevent crime, they file reports, sometimes.

How many reports do you hear of police forces cutting back on personnel, yet the crime rate doesn't go up?
In many locations they will no longer investigate, robbery, simple assault, nor many other crimes unless a gun is involved or there is drug money to be had.

Face it people, the police you grew up with are gone and what we have left is in the neighbor hood of 75% corrupt. The police force is broken because our society is broken.