Do we really need the Police?

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

Text I think he would use those words in front of you. Why wouldn't he? Imagine if your mother was being brutally raped and tortured

Because if he did there would be consequences. You dont talk about peoples mothers being raped. Especially in an antagonistc fashion. I would not appreciate it at all. I would communicate that in a non-verbal way. You dont talk about peoples mothers. You are taking it to another level. If you were not hiding behind your computer screen you would not be talking about my mother.

Sounds like you're missing the point, bud.

I think we need cops all in all, but I feel their pay should come from somewhere else besides harassing the general public. It bothers me when I see more cops out "trolling" near the end of the month trying to reach their monthly quota.
I also felt sad when my car broke down at a green light and had to push it to a nearby parking lot while a cop just stood their watching me unhelpfully 50 feet away.

We would all be following the laws of the land if each and every one of us didnt own a car. have you ever accidentally gone 42 mph in a 40 mph zone? Is your classic car uninspected because they dont make a part for it anymore and your in constant fear of getting a ticket? did you ever forget to use your turn signal because you were distracted? I feel all these things dont make us bad people, but its these little things that keep food on a cops table.
I would love to have a ferrari but all in all cars are evil...just look at the sky the paved roads where grass should be, why are we fighting wars and oil is allways a factor if not the main one?
I really feel if we didnt have cars cops would be out of a job and the world would be a different place.

Although I completely understand and partially agree with your point, I have to overall disagree. The sad fact of the matter is that we DO need police--not even "police" per se, but a legal justice system. We all have unalienable rights and should be allowed to live our own lives any way we see fit, without any interference from anybody else (including the government). But what happens when a person has their unalienable rights violated? They are assaulted, or their property is stolen, or they are raped, or they are murdered, or their property is damaged, etc. etc. etc... In these cases--we could allow people to figure it out for themselves and exact their own revenge, but this is dangerous. Revenge is often taken to extremes--and rarely follows a thorough investigation. This certainly leaves room for far too frequent incidences of people being assaulted for crimes they didn't commit.

The problem is NOT that we have police. The problem is that the police no longer serve their intended and necessary function. To maintain civility, liberty, and justice we absolutely need someone to systematically, impartially, equitably, and verifiably defend our unalienable rights from encroachment. We need an independent third party to determine a) if a right was, indeed, violated, b) who should be held responsible, and c) how they should be punished. it's a system of checks and balances to make sure the right person is punished in an appropriate way.

What we do NOT need, however, is a mob of bullies threatening to use force against us if we choose not to OBEY every rule (no matter how unconstitutional) their bosses can invent. We don't need a mob of bullies constantly scrutinizing us--just looking for excuses to punish us for breaking those arbitrary/unconstitutional rules. As the only prudent function a legal justice system serves is defending our unalienable rights from unwanted encroachment by others, the state has no right to pass laws against ANY activity that has not encroached on the rights of a consenting third party. And the police sure as hell have no right enforcing such unconstitutional laws.

This means that the police SHOULD NOT be involving themselves with how we drive, the condition of our vehicles, whether or not we buckle our seat belts, what we willingly put into our own bodies, what we say, whether or not consensual sex involves a mutually beneficial financial transaction, what we spend our own money on, what we sell, items we voluntarily decide to own, or anything else. We should be allowed to buy anything we want, own anything we want, sell anything we want, and do anything we want right up to the point where our action has violated the unalienable rights of a non-consenting third party. Then, AND ONLY THEN, should the police involve themselves in our lives.

In my opinion it is the epitome of irony that police, whose sole intended function is to protect citizens from having their unalienable rights violated against their wishes, spend the vast majority of their time violating citizens' unalienable rights against their wishes.

Let's face it: whenever a cop interrupts your day, issues you a fine, detains you, or arrests you--he is depriving you of your unalienable rights. This violation can only be justified if it follows an incident in which you violated someone's rights--thus an equal trade off. I don't care if you are driving your car rapidly--while smoking a joint, drinking a beer, banging a hooker, possessing crack, and carrying a loaded gun in your sock--If you have not violated anyone else's rights in any way, what gives the police the right to violate yours?

"The police used to watch over the people, now they're watching the people."
- Charles Manson

Yes we need the police. If you take out the police, there will be more crimes, and who is going to stop it?

Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
Through all of time and humanity, you are indeed correct - hell hath no better representation than a DUI for one beer.

Simple solution - don't drink - then you can drive. Or drink, but don't drive. You can't pick and choose laws to follow and obey. So its your call. But just don't complain and call it "hell" when you get busted. Aren't you embarassed by that post?

Having cancer, losing a loved one, being harmed...nup....thats nothing on a DUI!

Your words remind me of someone psychotic.

I am not embarressed for my post.

Now I can tell your a cop lol.

Giving a DUI for one year says that you believe the next man can't drive from having one beer, I didn't say I did it. You are a disappointment to humanity to think that a man deserves all that trouble for drinking one beer and driving. It is ultimately foolish, and it is being a trader to your own human kind. Having a human being sell out like that, that is hell, not what the person is feeling when they have there life taken from them for having one beer. You thought I meant that when I said hell, but like you were mistaken about my words you are mistaken about everything in this subject.

For the record we all know there are many ways to describe hell on earth. It makes me want to cry tears for those who have suffered, so I wish people wouldn't throw things at me like that.

edit on 7-12-2011 by greyer because: (no reason given)

Your post was sensationalist at best and the sarcasm was used in light of your "actual hell" comment. I'm still none the wiser as to how someone can be a "trader to your own human kind" - or even if taken literally, how on earth that makes sense.

If the law is that drinking one beer takes you over the legal limit, then you must face the consequences of that act if you are found guilty. Whether that law is just or not is a different topic - the fact you have willingly broke it is the matter in question. I'm afraid i'm not a cop - believe it or not, some people actually see the merit in the enforcement of law. Not that being a cop would make my opinion any less valid - or do you accord people an opinion or worth dependent on their profession?

yes we need the police as an aspiring police officer my self i see the good and bad that they do i personakly have always had police help me whenever ive been in trouble and have never been in trouble with them my self but i do think that there should be more rigorous training for them so that not just any one an become a cop and to treat people fairly and stuff so yes we need a police force

Originally posted by MiloNickels

Let's face it: whenever a cop interrupts your day, issues you a fine, detains you, or arrests you--he is depriving you of your unalienable rights. This violation can only be justified if it follows an incident in which you violated someone's rights--thus an equal trade off. I don't care if you are driving your car rapidly--while smoking a joint, drinking a beer, banging a hooker, possessing crack, and carrying a loaded gun in your sock--If you have not violated anyone else's rights in any way, what gives the police the right to violate yours?

Another who doesn't understand the something simple. If you are driving your car rapidly--while smoking a joint, drinking a beer, banging a hooker, and possessing crack, YOU ARE VIOLATING EVERYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS to safe passage. So your genius thought is that the police should not worry about you been strung out on drugs behind the wheel or wasted behind the wheel because it's your right to do so...as long as you don't kill someone in the process. You are OK with them getting involved after your moronic azz has already violated other drivers lives by killing them.

You are the real problem in the world today. An entire generation of spoiled brats that think they should be able to do whatever they want and only be punished or held responsible for their actions if they happen to injure or kill someone in the process. YOU ARE THE SPECIFIC REASON WHY WE NEED A STRONG POLICE FORCE!

But you're really only concerned with YOUR rights, not the rights of those around you. Understand this. If you are speeding down the highway, a bottle of booze in one drunken hand, cell phone in the other, snorting blow off a hooker's boobs, paying no attention to the road, you are most certainly violating the rights of every other driver on the road. But you think the police should let you do that as long as you don't kill or injure someone in the process. B.S.

It's not that we do not need police, it's that we don't need the scum that abuse their power. There are a LOT LOT LOT of good police out there, I know a few personally and they wake up every morning dedicated to their families, their community and their country; it's unfortunate that they get drowned out by the media reporting heavily on the S.O.B.'s that abuse their power and prey on those that they reign over.

Seriously? Just because you have never needed them?

Yes we need the police.


As much as a lot of people dont like, we need laws and we need rules.

I have been harrased many times from idiot cops myself who think they are above the law, i have even been arrested... to which was my own fault i admit.


But you know what? I know we still need the police.


You wouldnt be saying this if i came into your house, tied you up and done what ever the hell i wanted with you.

No you would be pleading for the police to come and save you.

No we don't them, we all have our own protection and NRA membership.

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by theovermensch

 

You must be joking...

What would you do if someone broke into your house....start your own investigation?!
I could make a list with such "need police" to the end of page...

But...I agree...we do not need police to be a pain in the a$$ or to notice the officers have the intelligence just above the freezing point of water.

That reminds me of the day my appartment has been robbed.. i contacted the police, they filled a report and that's about it. I never heard from them again.

Until one of my friend gone by a pawnshop and saw something that belonged to me. My precious purple Jackson guitar. He called me and i went to the pawn shop. I looked at the serial number and in fact, that was my guitar. I asked the owner of the store what he will do since its mine and he bought stolen stuff, he said : nothing. I said that i would call the cops and he said to proceed. I did.

The cops arrived and i shown them the report with the serial number on it and the guitar. They just said : We can't do anything, you will have to buy it back from the shop. WOW! What a great service. So i did bought it back since it has a great valor for me.

I also managed to get the name and address of the person that sold it to the shop (the owner finally gave it to me, not the police). I wont tell you what happenned next

So, even if i had the proof, the police didnt do anything. Even if they had the name of the guy (i SUPPOSE they asked the shop owner too) they didnt do anything.

I did something.

Peace out.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

Text I think he would use those words in front of you. Why wouldn't he? Imagine if your mother was being brutally raped and tortured

Because if he did there would be consequences. You dont talk about peoples mothers being raped. Especially in an antagonistc fashion. I would not appreciate it at all. I would communicate that in a non-verbal way. You dont talk about peoples mothers. You are taking it to another level. If you were not hiding behind your computer screen you would not be talking about my mother.

Sounds like you're missing the point, bud.

He is.
Wow-YOU sound like the one acting like an Internet tough-guy,(samauris??? Really????) not me.I would gladly say what I said to your face-because I was using an example to illustrate a point.If you truly cannot understand that then there's no point in anyone even trying to debate with you.....

Originally posted by aivlas
reply to post by jibajaba

 

"if cars are driven reckless and endangering - then the clan could go hunt the perp. "

I don't think people should get drunk and run around the streets abusing people, lets get "the clan" go and beat them up.

I think dog owners should pick up the crap, lets get "the clan" and go and beat them up.

I think this road should be a thirty not a sixty lets get "the clan" and go get some drivers then beat them up

Which is what would happen not the happy ever after story that seems to go with these things

LOL! That is exactly how the state is using the police force, you know that?

In Montreal, Canada, they even passed a law to forbid dogs in a certain park because of ONE homeless individual who have 5 dogs was often seen there. No accident ever been reported concerning those dogs or their owner.

This fellow never been guilty of any crime aside from being homeless. They give him about 10k$ worth tickets per year (that he cant pay back because he is homeless) for nothing (standing still on the sidewalk, being in a park past midnight, ect..) . Where do they want him to go?

And what I just said is the truth, one cop even admitted it in front of cameras for a documentary. The mayor was more vague about this rule but the cop has been very honest IMO.

So, yes, the 'clan' (cops) you are talking about already exists but its the state that rules it, not the people. So IMO it's the same.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by theovermensch

Text So when your mother is being raped, or your child has gone missing

reply to post by Skippy1138

 

Nice imagery.Thanks for that.

If my mother isbeing raped the last thing I would do is call the Police.Like you said,she is being raped. What are the Police going to do? Direct her to counciling?

And thanks again for using my mother being raped as an example. You wouldnt say those words in front of me.

I think he would use those words in front of you. Why wouldn't he? Imagine if your mother was being brutally raped and tortured by a group of thugs, what would YOU do? Not much, really. In fact, if the police didn't do ANYTHING in response to your mother being raped, you'd be the first one to complain about the lack of police action.

We need police officers. This is common sense.

That's enough of your common sense. There's no place for that here.

I've had a few run-ins with the police in my youth, but I still think that without the police we'd be living in a state of anarchy. Frontier justice is not really justice. Are the police perfect? No. But you show me a single group of people responsible for the well-being of others that doesn't have problems and I'll poke all sorts of holes in your example.

Without police, there would be a lot more rape, murder, and theft.

Originally posted by MatthiasGoliath
"The police used to watch over the people, now they're watching the people."
- Charles Manson

Probably not a good idea to quote Charles Manson if you're trying to make a point. He's crazy and quoting him makes YOU look crazy.

Originally posted by Vaxar
Seriously? Just because you have never needed them?

Yes we need the police.


As much as a lot of people dont like, we need laws and we need rules.

I have been harrased many times from idiot cops myself who think they are above the law, i have even been arrested... to which was my own fault i admit.


But you know what? I know we still need the police.


You wouldnt be saying this if i came into your house, tied you up and done what ever the hell i wanted with you.

No you would be pleading for the police to come and save you.

edit on 7-12-2011 by Vaxar because: (no reason given)

Exactly,

I've never needed the Fire Department, but I'm thinking it would be a bad idea to disband them. The same goes for any "social" service, where few people use the service, but EVERYONE pays for them. They are for the greater good. Even though they don't help you directly, they do help your community as a whole. Anyone saying otherwise is just a selfish jerk whose turn will come eventually.

People need to remember that we've only had a permanent standing police force since the 18th century. In the grand scheme of things, that is not a long time; the police, therefore, are actually a relatively new institution.

I personally believe that the degree of harm done by police world wide, largely outweighs the social benefits that they are ostensibly meant to provide. The police no longer exist, for the most part, for the purposes of legitimate criminal justice. For at least the last two decades, they have increasingly begun to act instead, as a standing civilian (and increasingly, no longer civilian) army for governments, which are primarily occupied with suppressing dissent on the part of the civilian population.

Democracy doesn't exist any more. Governments do what they like, and if the civilian population are opposed to the government's decision, said government will simply call in the police and arm them with riot gear, in order to arrest and/or beat up said civilians. The police, therefore, are now primarily employed as a reinforcement for state fascism.

You don't get any understanding to yourself and your perceptions by writing that post, and your post doesn't get any sympathy from me, because it seems like you are trying to defend a police officer for choosing that job. In my previous posts I have described what psychologically occurs in a persons life to make them want to be a cop, and you most likely a cop are telling me about time on the clock. All of those examples are pathetic because they shouldn't be taking the time of the day to empty citizens of America from their pockets for a moving violation in the street. The reason why I have decided not to think about doing that is because I haven't sold out to my species. I have no hate in me at all, somebody with no hate cannot be a cop because they would not empty a hard working individuals pockets for a moving violation.

Best comment so far....