Dick Cheney ADMITS to 'giving the order to shoot down' flight 93, page 2

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by silo13

---

Why? It seems real clear that losing 3000 is a lot worse than losing 100 on a plane. Sorry, but it comes down to protecting the greatest number of people. It is a sickening decision to have to make. However, it is one that is some times necessary.

I do not believe the official story. I believe that either government negligence or compliance was involved in 9-11. I however would support shooting down a plane before it reached a highly urbanized area like Washington, D.C. That is in this specific instance.

At least two planes had already been used as missiles. Other planes were being ordered out of the air. Any plane that was hijacked and headed to Washington had to be assumed to be a threat.

This video makes it sound like he gave the order to shoot down a plane if necessary. It doesn't really say that anyone did shoot down a plane.

MikeNice,

NO, it's NOT a matter of protecting any amount of people. It's a matter of what you yourself is able to do, and which obviously is to kill a considerably amount of innocent people.

When YOU kill people YOU are the only ONE responsible for this act. When other people kill people, THEY are
responsible for this same act that THEY do.

It is as simple as that.

When YOU kill people, this is YOUR responsibility. When other people kill people, this is THEIR responsibility.

You simply cannot blame other people for YOUR killings and murders.

Every human being is responsible for their own actions. Every human being is an individual. This is an absolute fact, even if you're not aware of this yet.

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again that "you shall not kill".

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again that "as you sow, so shall you reap".

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again to "follow the Golden Rule".

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told to follow the faint inner voice of "their conscience".

Only total idiots, total fools, the totally immature, or the totally corrupted, or in other words, - those who belongs to the herd - to those who feel they are part of the sheeps - to those who have not yet learned to think for themselves - or to those who think they're born to rule - only to these kinds of people the above would seem to be "meaningless".

But even to these poor people a certain maturity has been reached, so even to them there will be a price to pay.

Willful ignorance or faintness of heart, will never be accepted as an excuse.

Neither will 'lust for power' ever never be accepted as an excuse.

Just stop killing and murdering your fellow human beings, and you'll play your part in making this a better world! -
but much better it is, that you will never again have to endure the harsh but utterly just repercussions stemming from the laws of 'cause and retribution', or as it is better known: 'The Law of karma' - and which is absolutely real.


Cheers


PS!
It should not need to be said, that of course you're in the right to protect your property, your borders, your self, your rights from an ambitious, envious or rapacious aggressor, even if you have to meet violence with violence -
as the aggressor will always be in the wrong.
If the defender crosses his own borders and thus becomes and aggressor as well, both parties becomes equally guilty in all the bloodshed and killings taking place from that moment on.

America's 'karma' accumulated over the last 70 years is beyond measure.
It's downfall is unavoidable!

And yes, 9/11 was an inside job.

reply to post by djeminy

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Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again that "you shall not kill".

Killing out of malice is wrong. When it comes down to chosing between 100 people on a plane, or the thousands people in the capital building on a given day, the thousands win. Sorry, but I would not sacrifice thousands of people. By not issuing the order to shoot down a plane that was hijacked and a viable threat they would have been sacrificing thousands of extra lives.

It would be hard to live with the fact that 100 people died because of a direct order. However, it would be harder to live with thousands dead because of the failure to give the order.

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again to "follow the Golden Rule".

Yep, and if I was on that plane I would want it shot down, if necessary. I understand that my single life is not worth more than 100 or 1,000 other lives.

I guess I should have read your whole post before trying to respond. I thought it was actually about me. It turns out you just used me as a spring board for an "I hate America" rant. So, our discussion - if there was one - is over.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by djeminy

---

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again that "you shall not kill".

Killing out of malice is wrong. When it comes down to chosing between 100 people on a plane, or the thousands people in the capital building on a given day, the thousands win. Sorry, but I would not sacrifice thousands of people. By not issuing the order to shoot down a plane that was hijacked and a viable threat they would have been sacrificing thousands of extra lives.

It would be hard to live with the fact that 100 people died because of a direct order. However, it would be harder to live with thousands dead because of the failure to give the order.

Every human being of a certain maturity have been told over and over again to "follow the Golden Rule".

Yep, and if I was on that plane I would want it shot down, if necessary. I understand that my single life is not worth more than 100 or 1,000 other lives.

I guess I should have read your whole post before trying to respond. I thought it was actually about me. It turns out you just used me as a spring board for an "I hate America" rant. So, our discussion - if there was one - is over.

edit on 6-12-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

Just for the record:

I don't hate anybody. Neither you or America, nor the people responsible for this:

www.google.com... i=2&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=636#q=iraqi+children+killed&hl=en&sa=X&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=a4863514b641f550&biw =1603&bih=836


Killings and murder IS wrong full stop.

Had your wife, children or your parents been amongst the passengers in the plane, would you still have shoot it down?

If you had, you would have been a person without a conscience and a person who would have had no idea about what is right or wrong, good or bad.

The possibility is of course that you could have been brainwashed to such an extend that this act of yours would have been completely 'robot -like', but then again you would not be considered a member of the human race any longer .....would you!

Cheers

reply to post by djeminy

---

So, let us put your perspective out there as plainly as possible.

It is better for two men to be allowed to kill thousands than for a person to issue the order to kill the 100 on the plane. Do I have your position correct?

How do you avoid taking responsibility for the thousands on the ground that would die because you fail to give the order. In other words, by not issuing the order aren't you equally responsible for the death of thousands. If it is in your power to stop it and you don't are not merely an accesory to the actions of the pilots?

I am not a robot, I just understand that sometimes all we can hope to do is minimize the pain and destruction. It is easy to hide behind a slogan. It is harder to deal with reality.

Originally posted by samkent
As to the plane that hit the Pentagon:
The distance between Reagan and the Pentagon is 1 mile. It appeared to all that it was going to land at Reagan airport with radio problems. As far as I know other planes landed there as per orders. So should they have shot down all the other planes landing at Reagan?

As to flight 93:
Passenger plane vs no plane.
Unload passengers at Cleveland vs shot down vs forced crash.

The conspiracy theories have far more inconsistencies than the truth.
Until the truthers can come up with ONE consistent theory that covers ALL aspects of 911 it will remain nothing more that website fodder.

But a consistent theory is available and indeed provable.
It was all Faked!
www.septemberclues.info
www.cluesforum.info

Look at the video again, but this time Don't give SnakeyCheney any benefit
of doubt. Assume he is a well accomplished actor/liar (heavens forbid!), delivering
a well rehearsed performance, and I believe you will see through his mask to his
true colours. I certainly can, now. Notice the re-inforcing of the myth that 3 other
planes met ('at the twin towers and at the pentagon'- as if we didn't know, or forgot!)
their targets and that thousands died.
He is an actor on a stage, I tell thee, and he knows full well that 9/11 was a hollywood style
Hoax/Horror Story/Mockumentery, with very few, if any deaths, created with all the differing
methods of moving picture production at the disposal of the crafters.
I gave you the links to help prove the above to yourself.
The rest is up/down to you.

I don't like watching movies much anymore. I dislike how easily they can influence most in
any which way/direction the producers/directors/financiers/actors choose.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by djeminy

---

So, let us put your perspective out there as plainly as possible.

It is better for two men to be allowed to kill thousands than for a person to issue the order to kill the 100 on the plane. Do I have your position correct?

How do you avoid taking responsibility for the thousands on the ground that would die because you fail to give the order. In other words, by not issuing the order aren't you equally responsible for the death of thousands. If it is in your power to stop it and you don't are not merely an accesory to the actions of the pilots?

I am not a robot, I just understand that sometimes all we can hope to do is minimize the pain and destruction. It is easy to hide behind a slogan. It is harder to deal with reality.

OK, so it appears that you would shoot down the plane even if your wife, children or parents were on board!

And this in spite of the fact that at the time you gave the order, you would have no idea where the plane was heading, and no idea what the hi-jackers intentions were.

Even if you suspected the plane was heading toward the world towers, you would have no confirmation that the hi-jackers were on a suicide mission, nor would you know whether they would be able to hit one of the towers or not.
Neither would you have any idea about the possibility that the towers could possibly collapse or not, killing 3000 people (according to the official account, after the so-called "fact")!

As you would have been totally ignorant about even more possibilities available at the time you gave the order to shoot down the plane, your act cannot be interpreted in any other way than an act done out of pure evil or out of pure insanity - hence an act that never in the world could ever be justified no matter how you look at it.

So by you giving the order and the order be carried out, you commit mass murder and therefore should be held responsible for this act of total lunacy and madness, whereas if you had let the plane continue on its flight, whatever happened after that moment would be the sole responsibility of the hi-jackers, and of which they later on would have to account for.

By NOT giving the order, at least that would have been a sign of you attempting to save the lives of your close family members together with the other passengers and crew, which again would have indicated that there's more goodness in you, than there is of pure evil or insanity!


Cheers

reply to post by pshea38

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I don't like watching movies much anymore. I dislike how easily they can influence most in
any which way/direction the producers/directors/financiers/actors choose.

I'm with you; since 911 the blatant propaganda in almost every movie is hard to ignore. I kicked the TV habit many years before 911, but I caught a whiff of NCIS the other day, and holy crap! What a bunch of seriously disturbing propagandist BS.

reply to post by djeminy

---

Either you didn't read my initial post or you are being intentionaly dense. I said that, in the particular case where two planes had already hit the towers and a third had hit the Pentagon I would give the order. That is what he is saying he did in the interview.

Why you are going all the way back to before anything had occurred is beyond me.

Please pay attention instead of trying to slander and attack someone.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by djeminy

---

Either you didn't read my initial post or you are being intentionaly dense. I said that, in the particular case where two planes had already hit the towers and a third had hit the Pentagon I would give the order. That is what he is saying he did in the interview.

Why you are going all the way back to before anything had occurred is beyond me.

Please pay attention instead of trying to slander and attack someone.

I think it's you my dear friend who seems to be a bit dense, since it appears that you fail to understand that what i described in my post applies equally whether the talk is about AA11, UA175, AA77, UA93 or any other planes in similar situations.

You mentioned the killings of more than thousand people in your previous post, so i used one of the planes allegedly flying toward the towers as an analogy where such an amount of people allegedly got killed.

Thus, i could just as well have used 'UA93' as an example, and again wherein your wife, children or parents would be potential passengers, and again it appears that you still would have given the orders to shoot down this plane as well, even though you again would be completely ignorant about this plane's intention or destination.

Nothing would have changed. You would still have committed mass murder.

Very sad and very tragic you think the way you do, but it's your life, so .....

anyway -

cheers


PS!
If you want a better world, if you wish that people should stop maiming, killing and murdering
each other, it would be an excellent idea if you started with yourself!
Otherwise you could be seen as promoting double-standards, and as you know, this also goes
by another not so pleasant name that nobody would like ever to be called, unless of course .....

reply to post by djeminy

---

You keep using my very strict situation and applying it to another situation that is very different. I would not have shot down the first plan headed to NY. At that point hijackers had usually just forced planes to land at a particular airport.

For your information I have never intentionally harmed another person unless in defense of my self or others. Look up the essay, On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs. There is a large difference between being a sheep dog and a wolf.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog. . . .

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference."

I won't cash in my fangs. I will use them if my fellow man needs me.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by djeminy

---

I won't cash in my fangs. I will use them if my fellow man needs me.

Yes, even if you have to kill the closest members of your own family in the process!


Not even the meanest of the 'wolf ' would do this.

You have been truly and seriously brainwashed by your so-called "superiors" my dear friend .......


Cheers

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