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CSIS head urged government to fight ban on information obtained through torture

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:19 PM

CSIS head urged government to fight ban on information obtained through torture

Canada’s spy agency was so reliant on information obtained through torture that it suggested the whole security certificate regime, used to control suspected terrorists in the country, would fall apart if they couldn’t use it.

That’s the essence of a letter written in 2008 by the former director of CSIS, Jim Judd, obtained by The Gazette.

It suggests a disturbing acceptance by the national security agency of torture as a legitimate strategy to counter terrorism.
(visit the link for the full news article)

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:19 PM
Wow, that's a shocker.

CSIS is basically saying that torture is vitally necessary to combat terrorism, the same terrorism that is apparently the greatest threat to the lives of Canadians.

The issue here is that policy is being put foward that would dismiss all evidence obtained through torture in the courts. CSIS claims that this evidence is vital for national security.

Now don't get me wrong: I think torture is necessary for national security in extreme cases. However, there is a clear distinction between "on the spot" necessary torture and prolonged psychological degeneration torture designed to make the victim say whatever the torturer wants him to say. This kind of torture helps create the illusion of the threat of terrorism, which really isn't there in the first place.

The fact that CSIS wants torture-produced evidence to remain as an important counter-terrorist measure is indictative of the higher agenda. Prolonged torture is accepted by almost anyone with a conscience as being irrelevant to actual national security concerns.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:26 PM
What good information has torture divulged?

I don't recall any, so I'm guessing none.
edit on 5-12-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:27 PM
I'd really give anything if both the United States and Canada could sit down as a society and have out this debate that has been building for over 10 years now. What is torture? What IS NOT torture and who, when and where is it appropriate or even required....if ever, if anywhere? I feel "torture" as we've come to define it, IS a necessary tool...but used far more sparingly and with FAR more accountability than our two national systems would seem to be willing to even discuss.

I am a little surprised Canada personally got into putting the screws to suspects and at this level too. I never thought of Canada as the aggressive police state kind of Government. Naive, I suppose...but I had thought they'd ship their prisoners down here or out to Morocco for those lively sessions of interrogation.

It's driving me absolutely batty though that we, as people, keep dancing and playing around an issue every one of us would agree as individuals CANNOT just be 'left to work itself out'. For better or ban entirely or very tightly regulate circumstances for...The issue really has to be handled in the bright light of public comment and discourse. That IS how our free nations are SUPPOSED to function, as I recall civics classes saying more than once.

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:33 PM
What are we doing about this? The US passed laws to detain anyone without trial and want to do away with bans on torture.

Promptly Canada follows suit.

We are being poisoned by deadly radiation an the food is being destroyed as well.

The US has a bill drafted up proclaiming it owns all the water, including rain water.

And they want to pump lithium into the water in Ireland, or its highly recommended by their leading pyschiatrists.

People are being attacked by the police when they phone 9/11.

What are we doing about it? Nothing?

Ideas are very welcome for actual ways to have people group and and effectively, in wise intelligent and non violent ways END THIS.

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:45 PM
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

This is scary, especially with Bill C-10 coming out. Bill C-10 makes it pretty easy for Canadians to be considered terrorists. Most Canadians don't seem to care about it, but it pretty much allows the government to do anything they want at any time in any situation as long as they find a way to qualify you under certain categories.

How long until Canadians are being tortured as terrorists?

Bill C-10

An Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to
amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the
Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and
Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act,
the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other

Canada has sunk so low over the last ten years

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 01:47 PM
Information obtained through torture, even if it helped the credibility of such practices, would more than likely not be made public. Just another practice that occurs behind the veiled curtain that we are not intended to see that has a prescribed use to obtain determined results. When the topic of torture is brought into the public’s attention, you will have some outspoken individuals advocating such practices and those who do not. Regardless of the public’s opinion, such practices are perpetrated and will continue to do so in the name of national security.

posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 06:45 PM

Originally posted by MDDoxs
Information obtained through torture, even if it helped the credibility of such practices, would more than likely not be made public.

Sure, the information is made public. Remember the fearmongering years following 9/11? Western media wouldn't stop reporting about intel describing future attacks on this building or that building... and they got this information from torturing detainees from the "war on terror". To extrapolate this point, one of the guys who provided much of these potential targets was a driver for Al Qaeda, and it turns out that he actually suffered from some serious psychological disillusionment issues- yet his "confessions" obtained by torture were used to scare the public.
edit on 5-12-2011 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:22 AM
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

If you truly believe that governments only utilize factual information to scare the masses, you may be a bit narrow minded. Disinformation, false flag and complete fabrication are more effective practices to influence the public opinions then real information. Sure, the truth can be a very scary thing sometime. I merely want to state that it is far more efficient and effective if you release information designed to have a desired effect on the population. I feel this is more likely the case and actual information produced from torture remains very shrouded. What the public hears is either very far from the truth or completely unrelated.

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